RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (Full Version)

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RottenJohnny -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 12:52:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura
Many of the jobs lost are being lost to automation. How is he going to tariff/tax his way out of the fact that machines can do most jobs better for cheaper than unskilled labor, and never need a day off, or sick pay, or any other benefits...

What surprises me is that automation has led to more job losses than greedy shareholders and owners. But all of a sudden its big news again.
The job retraining system is completely screwed, but the ones affected are the ones blamed for needing to live in the modern world on slave wages.

It isn't really news, just that some people want to blame the job losses on foreign countries, and while it's true some of them have went there, automation is taking even more, and is the business model that businesses want to go with lately...

Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/17/technology-created-more-jobs-than-destroyed-140-years-data-census

Technology and Automation Create, Not Destroy, Jobs
http://www.innovationfiles.org/technology-and-automation-create-not-destroy-jobs/

Robots won’t just take jobs, they’ll create them
https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/13/robots-wont-just-take-jobs-theyll-create-them/

5 New Jobs Created by Factory Automation: How Manufacturing Robotics are Evolving
https://eagletechnologies.com/5-new-jobs-created-by-automation/

Does Workplace Automation Destroy Jobs Or Create Unexpected Opportunities? An Optimists' View
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joemckendrick/2016/08/30/does-workplace-automation-destroy-jobs-or-create-unexpected-opportunities-an-optimists-view/#bd3f90f73ad6

Why Robots Will Be The Biggest Job Creators In World History
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2015/03/01/why-robots-will-be-the-biggest-job-creators-in-history/#2ed59bd21749

Automation can create jobs if you are willing to learn
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/jobs/automation-can-create-jobs-if-you-are-willing-to-learn/articleshow/53234422.cms




DaddySatyr -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 1:59:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh so political donations matter, but conflict of interests, dont?



Suddenly, you're worried about conflict of interest? Seriously? How did that work out amongst the State Dept., CGI, and the she-cunt from 2009 - 2013?



Michael




heavyblinker -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 2:28:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
Automation can create jobs if you are willing to learn
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/jobs/automation-can-create-jobs-if-you-are-willing-to-learn/articleshow/53234422.cms


This election was decided by people who don't want to learn.

They don't want the new jobs that the machines created, they want the ones that were replaced by machines.




RottenJohnny -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 2:42:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
This election was decided by people who don't want to learn.

You mean Hillary supporters? I totally agree.




heavyblinker -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 2:57:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
This election was decided by people who don't want to learn.

You mean Hillary supporters? I totally agree.


Oh right, because Hillary supporters live in the Rust Belt and are upset because they don't have jobs... and we all know she promised to give them back their precious manly labor jobs and make America great again. That's probably why she's the president-elect right now.




Musicmystery -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 3:20:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

They could have moved ALL the jobs out. And Trump did not sign NAFTA. Also, we wants to at least revap NAFTA, ostensibly to punish companies for outsourcing.

If you are so fucking smart, what would you do in his place ?

It is called constructive criticism and everyone seems to have forgotten what that is.
T^T

It's called free markets and Republicans seem to have forgotten what that is.




heavyblinker -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 3:30:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
It's called free markets and Republicans seem to have forgotten what that is.


Not Sarah Palin:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-palin-criticizes-trump-over-carrier-deal/




RottenJohnny -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 4:05:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Oh right, because Hillary supporters live in the Rust Belt and are upset because they don't have jobs... and we all know she promised to give them back their precious manly labor jobs and make America great again. That's probably why she's the president-elect right now.

Really? You're going to insult people because they want a job?




heavyblinker -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 6:48:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Oh right, because Hillary supporters live in the Rust Belt and are upset because they don't have jobs... and we all know she promised to give them back their precious manly labor jobs and make America great again. That's probably why she's the president-elect right now.

Really? You're going to insult people because they want a job?


If they just wanted jobs, they would adapt to the global economy and continue to upgrade their skills.
No, they want SPECIFIC jobs.

And now they've convinced the government to start bribing the rich in order to keep them. I know this was Trump's plan all along but it's still incredibly stupid... where do you think the money for these bribes is going to come from?




Musicmystery -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 7:17:11 AM)

Yeah, "creating" jobs isn't hard if you just throw money at it--like when Reagan used Star Wars to turn the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world, with 1/4 of its assets foreign owned, and quadrupling the national debt in just 8 years.

Wait 'til we get to the tariffs. Herbert Hoover tried that, even though 1000 economists signed a letter begging him not to and explaining the consequences. He didn't listen, and helped usher in the Great Depression.

Of course, Reagan also ushered in an economic collapse in the late 80s, and when W reasserted his policies, ushered in another collapse late in his 2nd term.

Yet people want to do more of what doesn't work, and warn against the dangers of doing what has worked well.

Go figure.




heavyblinker -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 7:49:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Wait 'til we get to the tariffs. Herbert Hoover tried that, even though 1000 economists signed a letter begging him not to and explaining the consequences. He didn't listen, and helped usher in the Great Depression.


I honestly don't think it will get that far. The tariffs were supposed to be threats, not actual policies.

Trump is actually really similar to Kim Jong Il-- aside from the whole isolationist thing, Kimmy J also cultivated a 'wild card' reputation to get badly-needed concessions, and it was important that people think he was actually capable of delivering on the threats, even if everyone involved knew that doing so would be disastrous. The only way to keep the fear alive was to convince everyone he was a madman-- whether or not he actually WAS a madman was less relevant than whether or not everyone thought he was. I have a feeling that Trump's incompetence is sincere, but I also think that the people pulling the strings are trying to figure out how to use it to their advantage.

But it seems pretty obvious that if he keeps pushing, sooner or later someone is going to call his bluff... and I really don't think that he can just keep bribing people to get what he wants... but of course if people are happier with 1000 'American' jobs that already exist than 5000 global economy jobs that would have existed under trade deals, they'll never know what they're missing.




WhoreMods -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 9:02:03 AM)

I can't see the orange cockwomble singing about how ronery he is with quite the same degree of pathos, somehow.




mnottertail -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 9:20:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, "creating" jobs isn't hard if you just throw money at it--like when Reagan used Star Wars to turn the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world, with 1/4 of its assets foreign owned, and quadrupling the national debt in just 8 years.

Wait 'til we get to the tariffs. Herbert Hoover tried that, even though 1000 economists signed a letter begging him not to and explaining the consequences. He didn't listen, and helped usher in the Great Depression.

Of course, Reagan also ushered in an economic collapse in the late 80s, and when W reasserted his policies, ushered in another collapse late in his 2nd term.

Yet people want to do more of what doesn't work, and warn against the dangers of doing what has worked well.

Go figure.

I have a different take on Smoot-Hawley, first of all it went thru congress and into law 8 months or more after the depression started and demand was already zero. The veto letter was signed by the free-market communist economists. While there was some retaliation the entire worlds economies were in depression, so there was not a great deal of demand anywhere. Also, and this is very important, as a trading surplus nation, anything in the way of depression hurt us deeper than it would in a trading deficit nation.

I think the general weakness of the banks and Hoovers lack of any sort of prescriptive fixex to the economic situation prolonged it.

Sorta like a house fire where the fire department says, we have to let it burn, its natural, and the best that can be done for it.





WickedsDesire -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 10:43:18 AM)

Good thread MrR

Trump 'deal' keeps 1,000 Carrier Corp jobs in Indiana http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38160330

WM i like cockwomble but do the Americans know what a womble is? Did you know when i was 8ish or something I bought this record 45rpm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIxkqoNi8I4

still, i am still trying to think of a name for creature that encompasses his dim monstrosity and gropey beast pussy grabbing claws




WhoreMods -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 10:48:22 AM)

Supposedly Chris Spedding played the guitar on that one.

D&D nerds have suggested that the Gibbering Mouther seems a good fit:
[img]http://bogleech.com/dnd/mouther2.jpg[/img]




Real0ne -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 3:25:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, "creating" jobs isn't hard if you just throw money at it--like when Reagan used Star Wars to turn the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world, with 1/4 of its assets foreign owned, and quadrupling the national debt in just 8 years.

Wait 'til we get to the tariffs. Herbert Hoover tried that, even though 1000 economists signed a letter begging him not to and explaining the consequences. He didn't listen, and helped usher in the Great Depression.

Of course, Reagan also ushered in an economic collapse in the late 80s, and when W reasserted his policies, ushered in another collapse late in his 2nd term.

Yet people want to do more of what doesn't work, and warn against the dangers of doing what has worked well.

Go figure.



32. Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Recession of 1945 Feb–Oct 1945

33. Harry S. Truman (1945-1953)
Recession of 1949
Recession of 1953
34. Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
Recession of 1958
Recession of 1960–61

35. John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)

36. Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
Recession of 1969–70

37. Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
1973–75 recession Nov 1973 –

38. Gerald Ford (1974-1977)

39. Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
1980 recession
1981 recession

40. Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)

41. George Bush (1989-1993)
1990s recession

42. Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
2000 recession March 2001–Nov 2001

43. George W. Bush (2001-2009)
Great Recession )2007–2009)




MrRodgers -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/3/2016 5:11:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Wait 'til we get to the tariffs. Herbert Hoover tried that, even though 1000 economists signed a letter begging him not to and explaining the consequences. He didn't listen, and helped usher in the Great Depression.


I honestly don't think it will get that far. The tariffs were supposed to be threats, not actual policies.

Trump is actually really similar to Kim Jong Il-- aside from the whole isolationist thing, Kimmy J also cultivated a 'wild card' reputation to get badly-needed concessions, and it was important that people think he was actually capable of delivering on the threats, even if everyone involved knew that doing so would be disastrous. The only way to keep the fear alive was to convince everyone he was a madman-- whether or not he actually WAS a madman was less relevant than whether or not everyone thought he was. I have a feeling that Trump's incompetence is sincere, but I also think that the people pulling the strings are trying to figure out how to use it to their advantage.

But it seems pretty obvious that if he keeps pushing, sooner or later someone is going to call his bluff... and I really don't think that he can just keep bribing people to get what he wants... but of course if people are happier with 1000 'American' jobs that already exist than 5000 global economy jobs that would have existed under trade deals, they'll never know what they're missing.

Like an east coast capitalist scum as useful idiot over a Texas redneck as useful idiot. I don't know of those 5000 jobs created by globalized trade over any 1000 jobs existing.

America has never pursued such a dedicated industrial (employment) 'export' economy say like Germany because the American investor class, sponsors of policy, don't give a fuck about country and thus American jobs at all...just profits.




Musicmystery -> RE: The truth about Trump, Carrier and those jobs (12/22/2016 3:17:56 PM)

Well, the point to start is ACTUALLY doing something instead of making up a story about how he did.




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