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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/21/2016 11:52:24 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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My comments have nothing to do with with rock bands or drums.
The same as I didn't make any comparisons concerning a commercial venture either.
I just used them as comparisons for dedication - regardless of what musical field they engage in.

You dismiss my post because I happen to use those rather than classical examples.
I like some classical stuff (but not a huge lot).
I happen to like Toccata - which is why I can make a comment on the way she played it.
You rave that this is the best rendition in the world because of her dedication and the instrument she played it on.
I maintain that there are many others in the musical world equally dedicated.

I'm saying her dedication is admirable but the performance left a lot to be desired.
To me, it was crap - in more ways than one.
Her style, regardless of the difficulty of the piece, left me cold and unfeeling.
You think it's the bee's knees.
But that's your opinion.
I just happen not to agree with it.

It's a nice classical piece and usually instantly recognisable no matter how badly played - like the [in]famous Chopsticks.
I also happen to have the opinion that Toccata played on just about anything else other than the original instrument it was written for is usually crap no matter how dedicated the player or how well executed; with very few exceptions.
The reason being.... most other instruments don't have that 'oomph' that an organ has.
And that is what makes it such a memorable piece - classical or otherwise.
But that's my personal opinion.

Apparently, you abhor (and hence dismiss) anything beyond your narrow field of interest.
If it isn't in your comfort zone, you automatically think it doesn't deserve any further thought.
And you argue your point vociferously as if everyone else is utterly wrong - we've seen it elsewhere as well as here.
I'm not doubting your enthusiasm.
What I am saying is that to dismiss everyone else whose opinion differs from yours or draws comparisons from different fields is disingenuous and disrespectful.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/22/2016 4:00:40 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
My comments have nothing to do with with rock bands or drums.


As counterpoint to my submission, you gave reference to a band you named as 'Skye,' though not I or another poster could find such a thing on youtube (or anywhere on the net, in my case). 'Sky' was the closest thing we could find who ventured into the Toccata and Fugue. Please tell me if I erred, and by all means provide the link to set me straight in that instance (which you should have done in the first place, and have failed to do since).

That (the band Sky) was most definitely a 'rock band' and their rendition of the piece was most definitely heavily laden with drums. But your link to a group called 'Skye' who is not a rock band and who has no drummer would clear the matter, certainly.

quote:

The same as I didn't make any comparisons concerning a commercial venture either.
I just used them as comparisons for dedication - regardless of what musical field they engage in.


Right. We'll just leave that one as it stands.


quote:

You dismiss my post because I happen to use those rather than classical examples.


I didn't dismiss your post at all. I had too much fun laughing at it after listening to your counterpoise example, to be honest.

quote:

You rave that this is the best rendition in the world because of her dedication and the instrument she played it on.


And here we have use of copy/paste in the modern world, so why are we not seeing where I said anything like 'the best rendition in the world,,' with or without whatever qualifiers?

I stated/inserted sometime later in the post what I consider to be the definitive version of that particular music (and provided a link thereto, unlike your lazy ass), so you strike out again, not due to taste or misconstruction, but simple lack of perception to begin with.

quote:

I maintain that there are many others in the musical world equally dedicated.


Dedication to 'stardom' and dedication to music itself and the instrument of choice in pursuit of that endeavor are two entirely different things, a point which everybody but you seems to have understood.

And it's obvious that not many are 'on board' with my estimation of the harp player's interpretation, not that I expected it, and not that I'm 100% on board with it myself, as far as that goes.

I was stupid to even post it in the first place, to be honest. Nobody cares about good musicians anymore, that's a fact.

I was just speaking as a (former) music player myself, it matters not what instrument, and I recognized that she somehow got the job done, even with my initial disinclination against the harp being up to the task at all.

quote:

You think it's the bee's knees.


Again, we have copy/paste. Show where I said that, otherwise quit being so stupid. She did what a musician is supposed to do, which is to convey the essence of the music itself. In further news, deaf and dullwit ears of the listener are not the responsibility of the musician.

quote:

Apparently, you abhor (and hence dismiss) anything beyond your narrow field of interest.
If it isn't in your comfort zone, you automatically think it doesn't deserve any further thought.


This is priceless. Someone who's comfort zone resides in pounding drums attempting to instruct someone whose musical range spans far beyond that constriction that he has a 'narrow field of interest.' You are a piece of work, no question.


quote:

What I am saying is that to dismiss everyone else whose opinion differs from yours or draws comparisons from different fields is disingenuous and disrespectful.


I didn't dismiss 'everyone else,' just your fatuous counterpoint example. But the point you are attempting is that your initial and often repeated dismissal regarding my initial post is 'just my opinion' whereas anything I've said in whatever vain attempt at musical erudition is "disrespectful." Got it.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/22/2016 5:02:36 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
My comments have nothing to do with with rock bands or drums.


As counterpoint to my submission, you gave reference to a band you named as 'Skye,' though not I or another poster could find such a thing on youtube (or anywhere on the net, in my case). 'Sky' was the closest thing we could find who ventured into the Toccata and Fugue. Please tell me if I erred, and by all means provide the link to set me straight in that instance (which you should have done in the first place, and have failed to do since).

That (the band Sky) was most definitely a 'rock band' and their rendition of the piece was most definitely heavily laden with drums. But your link to a group called 'Skye' who is not a rock band and who has no drummer would clear the matter, certainly.

The reference to 'Skye' was a typo and shouldn't have had the 'e' on the end.
I didn't notice it until it was no longer editable.
The fact they were a rock band is irrelevant to my argument.
And.... I didn't post any link to them either.

If you don't like rock bands, fair enough.
But you can't just dismiss them out of hand because they aren't to your taste.
When it comes to dedication and their instruments, they are just as dedicated as the lady in your link or any orchestra of your choosing.

Just because you think you have a better and more musically-attuned ear than everyone else, the arrogance shows in your posts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

The same as I didn't make any comparisons concerning a commercial venture either.
I just used them as comparisons for dedication - regardless of what musical field they engage in.


Right. We'll just leave that one as it stands.


quote:

You dismiss my post because I happen to use those rather than classical examples.


I didn't dismiss your post at all. I had too much fun laughing at it after listening to your counterpoise example, to be honest.

quote:

You rave that this is the best rendition in the world because of her dedication and the instrument she played it on.


And here we have use of copy/paste in the modern world, so why are we not seeing where I said anything like 'the best rendition in the world,,' with or without whatever qualifiers?

I stated/inserted sometime later in the post what I consider to be the definitive version of that particular music (and provided a link thereto, unlike your lazy ass), so you strike out again, not due to taste or misconstruction, but simple lack of perception to begin with.

quote:

I maintain that there are many others in the musical world equally dedicated.


Dedication to 'stardom' and dedication to music itself and the instrument of choice in pursuit of that endeavor are two entirely different things, a point which everybody but you seems to have understood.

And it's obvious that not many are 'on board' with my estimation of the harp player's interpretation, not that I expected it, and not that I'm 100% on board with it myself, as far as that goes.

I was stupid to even post it in the first place, to be honest. Nobody cares about good musicians anymore, that's a fact.

I was just speaking as a (former) music player myself, it matters not what instrument, and I recognized that she somehow got the job done, even with my initial disinclination against the harp being up to the task at all.

quote:

You think it's the bee's knees.


Again, we have copy/paste. Show where I said that, otherwise quit being so stupid. She did what a musician is supposed to do, which is to convey the essence of the music itself. In further news, deaf and dullwit ears of the listener are not the responsibility of the musician.

quote:

Apparently, you abhor (and hence dismiss) anything beyond your narrow field of interest.
If it isn't in your comfort zone, you automatically think it doesn't deserve any further thought.


This is priceless. Someone who's comfort zone resides in pounding drums attempting to instruct someone whose musical range spans far beyond that constriction that he has a 'narrow field of interest.' You are a piece of work, no question.


quote:

What I am saying is that to dismiss everyone else whose opinion differs from yours or draws comparisons from different fields is disingenuous and disrespectful.


I didn't dismiss 'everyone else,' just your fatuous counterpoint example. But the point you are attempting is that your initial and often repeated dismissal regarding my initial post is 'just my opinion' whereas anything I've said in whatever vain attempt at musical erudition is "disrespectful." Got it.


In your opening post you clearly state: But just listen to this, and tell me how this is not the most dedicated musician on her instrument in this time. You have NO IDEA how much dedication it takes to accomplish this phenomenal feat on her instrument.
And then go on to post a link with: The link to fantastic
If she was that dedicated, she would have made a good rendition - she didn't.
To highlight 'no idea' by use of capitals and the use of the word 'phenomenal' in the same sentence clearly shows your admiration for the content of your link.

Your enthusiasm was overtly obvious, for both the artist and the performance.
I just paraphrased it to 'the bees knees' in my comment.
So, while you didn't explicitly say "'the best rendition in the world", your intent was blindingly obvious.

And your rebuff of "I had too much fun laughing at it after listening to your counterpoise example, to be honest" just showed your contempt of everything outside of your very narrow point of view.
Interestingly, you accuse me of 'copy/paste' tactics.
Care to show me where any of my comments were copy/pasted from??
Just because I used a common phrase doesn't mean I did a copy/paste job doing it.

And your final sentence is a twist on my words interjected with your own. Got it.

I'm not even going to argue with someone so pedantic and intransigent with such a high opinion of themselves.
You aren't worth my time.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/22/2016 7:34:42 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Interestingly, you accuse me of 'copy/paste' tactics.
Care to show me where any of my comments were copy/pasted from??


Actually, no, I stated quite the opposite, which is that you claimed things I never said with no direct attribution to back it up. Good lord, what an unmitigated dullwit.

Now that you have finally accomplished the copy/paste task, you at least have an argument I got a bit carried away with things. Even still, I never claimed that the harp player's rendition of it was the best interpretation ever, your claim of "I was just paraphrasing" notwithstanding. If you had just left it with "not to my taste" and been done with it, it needn't have gone further. But your particular submission as example of what you proposed to be some superior effort in the venture pretty much destroyed any credibility you might have had in the matter. And if reading through the thread (and actually comprehending any of it), that estimation is not my opinion alone.

And in response to your other silliness, I was in a rock band myself for a couple of years, I was hired for FOH or monitors for some number of rock bands, I worked the sound board, front-of-house or monitors, for pretty much every type of live show on the planet. I went through one and a half years of music theory at the community college, took two years of classical guitar instruction, further got a certificate in piano tuning and repair and tuned pianos for five years. I've got nothing but compliments from my music teachers or bands I did sound for regarding my good ears and good taste regarding music. In any event, anyone who knows me personally or professionally would attest to the fact that my musical experience and tastes are a good bit more expansive than that of the average person.

Sorry if you feel you are being 'talked down to' on this occasion, but you brought it upon yourself with that ridiculous example you presented. I don't 'hate rock bands' (though admittedly, I don't listen to them anymore) I just hate stupid, and that example you gave was most definitely and definitively stupid, in any and every musical sense (not to mention sonically. Oh good gosh, that bass guitar ... ). Whatever gripes I might have had on occasion against my instructors (in music or computer programming or economics), I was never such an idiot as to tell them they were 'just being pedantic' in any case.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/22/2016 8:32:36 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/22/2016 7:46:20 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
Edwird,

If you enjoy music and well reproduced music go here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php

The link is direct to the forums. The motto is "All audio and no attitude."
You can express your opinion but only in a respectful manner or you will be gone.

There are forums for equipment, music, and subclasses for DIY,
brands of audio gear, solid state, tubes, also boards for different
equipment types: Turntables, DAC, Speakers, etc. There are a
lot of civilized discussions there including this one which seems
appropriate and was started today.

"I Find It Interesting How Dogmatically We Can Defend Our Audio Positions",
started today in General Audio discussion. So far 57 posts and no flames.
Some banter but the nature of the exchanges is convivial not combative.

Also there was recently a thread by somebody looking for well recorded
harp players. Try your post there and I am certain you will have a much
more satisfactory experience.

A person with your experience and interest would be a welcome addition.

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/22/2016 9:14:59 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

Thank you for your helpful nudging, and I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

I have indeed visited Audiokarma, and Audiocircle, and Audiogon, Audioasylum, and Vinyl Engine, etc. along with three pro audio sites I won't mention here. And don't forget Tape Op.

If you're not aware of it already, The Art of Sound is an excellent British-based audio site.

But basically, you're just telling me I need to calm down, and you're probably right.

I haven't made comment on any of those sites for probably two years now, but I still visit so I can read about moving coil phono step-up transformers all day when the mood strikes.

One has to wonder if I'm just pissed off and missing the excellent guitar collection I had at one time before I sold it all off.

No, not really. I did the right thing, but maybe I'm just pissed off about the turn of events lately, I just need to collect myself and not care so much.

I know that people at audio sites care a bit about good musicians and musicianship, and are more conscientious in expanding musical boundaries. I just didn't realize such inimical and outright hostile attitudes towards good musicians or good sound existed outside that arena. Or against any music not involving a Les Paul guitar and Marshal amp and a 3/4th trailer load of drums. Out in 'the real world.'

So yeah, "I feel better now." LOL. Thanks, outlier.

(in reply to outlier)
Profile   Post #: 26
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