RE: Why all the negative politics?

RE: Why all the negative politics? (Full Version)

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tamaka -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:16:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett In what church? Well in my case, Conservative Baptist. Is there any Baptist that is not conservative? HStates Edit National bodies Edit Alliance of Baptists American Baptist Association American Baptist Churches Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists Baptist Bible Fellowship International Baptist General Conference Baptist Missionary Association of America Central Baptist Association Christian Unity Baptist Association Conservative Baptist Association of America Continental Baptist Churches Cooperative Baptist Fellowship Enterprise Association of Regular Baptists Free Will Baptist Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship Fundamental Baptist Fellowship Association Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America General Association of Baptists General Association of General Baptists General Association of Regular Baptist Churches General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc. General Six-Principle Baptists Independent Baptist Church of America Independent Baptist Fellowship International Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America Indian Bottom Association of Old Regular Baptists Institutional Missionary Baptist Conference of America Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association Landmark Baptists Liberty Baptist Fellowship Macedonia Baptist World Missions Mainstream Baptist Network National Association of Free Will Baptists National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. North American Baptist Conference Old Regular Baptist Old Time Missionary Baptist Original Free Will Baptist Convention Primitive Baptist Universalists Primitive Baptists Progressive National Baptist Convention Reformed Baptist Regular Baptist Roger Williams Fellowship Separate Baptist Separate Baptists in Christ Seventh Day Baptist General Conference Southern Baptist Convention Southwide Baptist Fellowship Sovereign Grace Baptists Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists United American Free Will Baptist Church United American Free Will Baptist Conference United Baptists Unregistered Baptist Fellowship World Baptist Fellowship Worldwide Baptist New Testament Missions

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett In what church? Well in my case, Conservative Baptist. Is there any Baptist that is not conservative? HStates Edit National bodies Edit Alliance of Baptists American Baptist Association American Baptist Churches Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists Baptist Bible Fellowship International Baptist General Conference Baptist Missionary Association of America Central Baptist Association Christian Unity Baptist Association Conservative Baptist Association of America Continental Baptist Churches Cooperative Baptist Fellowship Enterprise Association of Regular Baptists Free Will Baptist Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship Fundamental Baptist Fellowship Association Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America General Association of Baptists General Association of General Baptists General Association of Regular Baptist Churches General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc. General Six-Principle Baptists Independent Baptist Church of America Independent Baptist Fellowship International Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America Indian Bottom Association of Old Regular Baptists Institutional Missionary Baptist Conference of America Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association Landmark Baptists Liberty Baptist Fellowship Macedonia Baptist World Missions Mainstream Baptist Network National Association of Free Will Baptists National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. North American Baptist Conference Old Regular Baptist Old Time Missionary Baptist Original Free Will Baptist Convention Primitive Baptist Universalists Primitive Baptists Progressive National Baptist Convention Reformed Baptist Regular Baptist Roger Williams Fellowship Separate Baptist Separate Baptists in Christ Seventh Day Baptist General Conference Southern Baptist Convention Southwide Baptist Fellowship Sovereign Grace Baptists Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists United American Free Will Baptist Church United American Free Will Baptist Conference United Baptists Unregistered Baptist Fellowship World Baptist Fellowship Worldwide Baptist New Testament Missions I grew up Southern Baptist, and I can tell you that they are conservative. Unless you meant that Conservative is the name of the group, not a description?

Greta75 -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:23:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett Correction: Islamic governments oppress women. Islam as a religion is no more oppressive of women than Christianity. 100% WRONG, the Quran is the only religious book that LITERALLY tell husbands to beat their wives as a disciplinary action. So Islam is the only religion that advocates violence against women. And where do you think Islamic governments got their laws from? It was from Islam's religious text who gives very precise laws to follow. And Muhammad their role model, who has real historical examples on how to execute those laws.

Greta75 -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:25:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Tell that to the person who grew up in the church. Many super religious people are able to break out of their religion once they become adults and go their own way. Sure they may be ostracized from their own community. But it is still a choice. Fortunately, it's not an Islamic country, where they get put to death yet. Muslims in the west has no excuse! They are in the West. They have full freedom of religion. They have a choice. You know in Christianity. Believe or Die is a choice anyway! I choose die.

tamaka -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett In what church? Well in my case, Conservative Baptist. Is there any Baptist that is not conservative? HStates Edit National bodies Edit Alliance of Baptists American Baptist Association American Baptist Churches Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists Baptist Bible Fellowship International Baptist General Conference Baptist Missionary Association of America Central Baptist Association Christian Unity Baptist Association Conservative Baptist Association of America Continental Baptist Churches Cooperative Baptist Fellowship Enterprise Association of Regular Baptists Free Will Baptist Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship Fundamental Baptist Fellowship Association Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America General Association of Baptists General Association of General Baptists General Association of Regular Baptist Churches General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc. General Six-Principle Baptists Independent Baptist Church of America Independent Baptist Fellowship International Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America Indian Bottom Association of Old Regular Baptists Institutional Missionary Baptist Conference of America Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association Landmark Baptists Liberty Baptist Fellowship Macedonia Baptist World Missions Mainstream Baptist Network National Association of Free Will Baptists National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. North American Baptist Conference Old Regular Baptist Old Time Missionary Baptist Original Free Will Baptist Convention Primitive Baptist Universalists Primitive Baptists Progressive National Baptist Convention Reformed Baptist Regular Baptist Roger Williams Fellowship Separate Baptist Separate Baptists in Christ Seventh Day Baptist General Conference Southern Baptist Convention Southwide Baptist Fellowship Sovereign Grace Baptists Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists United American Free Will Baptist Church United American Free Will Baptist Conference United Baptists Unregistered Baptist Fellowship World Baptist Fellowship Worldwide Baptist New Testament Missions I grew up Southern Baptist, and I can tell you that they are conservative. Unless you meant that Conservative is the name of the group, not a description? Yes... Conservative Baptist is the name of the group. Just like Southern Baptist. (Conservative Baptist is very similar to Southern Baptist).

tamaka -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:31:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka Tell that to the person who grew up in the church. Many super religious people are able to break out of their religion once they become adults and go their own way. Sure they may be ostracized from their own community. But it is still a choice. Fortunately, it's not an Islamic country, where they get put to death yet. You know in Christianity. Believe or Die is a choice anyway! I choose die. I get your point but i am just trying to help you appreciate that someone who was indoctrinated into a religion from early childhood has a very difficult time breaking through the brainwashing. It isn't just a simple choice, it is a lot of effort to undo it.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:36:45 PM)
quote: quote: I grew up Southern Baptist, and I can tell you that they are conservative. Unless you meant that Conservative is the name of the group, not a description? Yes... Conservative Baptist is the name of the group. Just like Southern Baptist. (Conservative Baptist is very similar to Southern Baptist). OK, I didn't catch that.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:40:54 PM)
quote: Why does everyone on here seem to be so bigoted? Because they are humans, and bigotry is human nature.

Greta75 -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 8:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka I get your point but i am just trying to help you appreciate that someone who was indoctrinated into a religion from early childhood has a very difficult time breaking through the brainwashing. It isn't just a simple choice, it is a lot of effort to undo it. Sure I understand that. I mean, imagine Nazi, KKK, how they are bringing up their kids. Completely nurturing them to be white supremacist, and those kids may grow up to never know anything else but that. And IMO, the best way is often to challenge their beliefs. Some will stick stronger to it. Some will start questioning why the hell they believe in that shit in the first place! In the end, people will follow their heart what feels right. It may be, some people in my example, may feel white supremacy is what feels most right in their heart. No wrong there. But it just means they will live in a world, where they will get ostracized for being that. That's all. You know, going against the grain, against your entire community is of course, one huge difficult thing to do. It may end up your love ones disowning you and stuffs. But what is interesting is. In the western world, they believe in, make yourself happy first. When you are happy, then you will be able to start making everyone around you happy. But take care of yourself first. In Asian world, they believe in, make everybody around you happy first. When everyone around you is happy, you will be happy. Which is why it is almost Asian culture for people to do everything their parents want, their spouse want, what their community wants, anything and everything but what they themselves want. This mentality will of course make it very very difficult for Muslims in Asia to break out of Islam. Lol. It applies to what one believes is the best way. No right or wrong way.

heavyblinker -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 9:58:10 PM)
I wish it wasn't true, but mainstream political discourse has evolved to the point where compromise is less about trying to see reason and more about abandoning it altogether to make people happy. The issues aren't even being framed in the right way anymore, and caving into stupidity is just going to make it worse. I know how this sounds when I say it, and I suppose it's possible that I'm simply too partisan to admit that that's all I am, but I have yet to see a single argument from the right that would even come close to snapping me out of my 'bubble', and I'm actually more open to it than you might think... but they're too often busy beating down strawmen and slapping labels on me to ever really get what I'm saying or where I'm coming from, and when that doesn't happen their narratives are so weak, transparent or unrealistic I'm left shaking my head. I liken compromising with the right to 'teach the controversy' when it comes to evolution or climate change. Evolution is a consensus theory that has been directly observed and serves as the only plausible explanation for how we came to be, but of course certain Christian groups won't accept this and want schools to teach their bullshit as if it was equal to genuine science. You could definitely appease them by touching upon it, but does that mean it's right to do so? Why should we let people who deny science have any say whatsoever in what is being taught to children? I blame the Internet and lack of accountability in the news-- there are some really cynical people out there who have a deep-seated disdain for their audiences, looking to pander in order to get attention and make money. Because of this, it's too often a choice between inadequate measures and full blown denial... especially when it comes to climate change, the economy, jobs, etc. There's this mentality that fighting the mainstream means you're doing something good, no matter what the mainstream is actually about. There are supposedly really simple solutions to every problem and the only reason they're not being implemented is because of some kind of conspiracy or some intentional effort to oppress people, and if you just get rid of these evil people who are hurting you, everything will automatically be great. I despise that attitude, but it's exactly why Trump is going to be president. Don't get me wrong, I think it is possible to improve society, but it isn't going to happen overnight, and it isn't going to happen if people keep resisting reason.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:08:59 PM)
Define your divisions, perhaps it will lead you to find your commonalities. Talk of Islam treating Women like chattel, well look in the old testament and you will find their Hebrew breatheren doing it as well. Look at White slave traders outside of the Semitic world, Chinese, Japanese, they all do it. I know one Woman who would say "You wanna try it motherfucker just go ahead". I used to have such a crush on that girl. So it is Men and Women. And then a whole bunch, Whites (meaning real White like European), Blacks, Orientals, other Asians. In my paternal family, Germans against Polish. How many people want to be only among "their kind" ? Almost all. It is a natural human trait. Don't punish people for it, try to make friends with them. Why do people try to denigrate, antagonize and aggravate those different than them ? Well I will tell you why RIGHT NOW. We do not want to live with them. The difference is that integration was forced upon the US by forces which had no idea of the consequences. But in Europe and the other "enlightened" countries it happened naturally. The US was not ready for it. That is the cause of most of the racial tension. Forced busing, forced renting with Blacks i n White neighborhoods. Sure we were bigots, but without forcing this integration down our throats it would have went alot better. Less deaths to say the least. You want a piece of racism ? I got a few. But ask. I can show you what real bigotry is in words. Here is a sample : Dad told me a joke. Emmet Hill, a Black guy from up north went south and in one of those states and whistled at a White girl. They lynched him and wrapped his body in chain and threw him in the river. For whatever reason they got the body back and at the inquest the coroner said "Open and shut case your honor, n____ stole more chain than he could swim with". Yeah, that was a joke until I found out is was true. That is totally uncalled for. And to actually KILL him for it ? It is not a joke now. It is plain old WRONG. T^T

Baldrick -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:13:33 PM)
Termy.. it is semantics, but his last name was Till

Greta75 -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:17:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker But it isn't going to happen overnight, and it isn't going to happen if people keep resisting reason. What you consider "reason", does not sound like "reasonable" to the right. It infact sounds more emotional most of the time. I consider the right wing the more pragmatic set of beliefs. And Left wing, the more emotional set of beliefs. Again, you are Canadian, a very left slanted upbringing. Your beliefs are influence by your environment. Your beliefs may not be what is right but what you perceived as right. I grew up in a right slanted society. Capitalist city. We value pragmatism over being humane. The only problem with the right in the US, especially the ones that come from bible belt, is that, religion interferes with their pragmatism and that's where I depart from them. I came from a school of thought that is all about pure pragmatism. Like for example, banning abortion is not a pragmatic solution, and will cause alot of unwanted babies. If it was pragmatic. We would have adopted it. I mean, we ban alot of things, but we don't ban abortion because it's not practical. We are soooo practical that we ban gum practically so that we don't have to waste money cleaning gum up from irresponsible gum users. We are obsess with public cleanliness and gum stains are the hardest to keep cleaning it off!

Kirata -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The issues aren't even being framed in the right way anymore... Which you know, of course, because you know the "right way" to frame things. quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker there are some really cynical people out there who have a deep-seated disdain for their audiences See above. K.

tamaka -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:29:46 PM)
I think the nature of human beings is to sort and categorize, compare/contrast. If you think about it, even our earliest childhood education experiences are sorting things by shape, color, or any other of a variety of ways. Once you've started sorting, you have started separating... it is the nature of our brain somehow to do so. Even at the most elementary level, it seems to 'Go against the grain' to force ourselves to put things together rather than to sort/separate them.

Kirata -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 10:41:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker Evolution is a consensus theory that has been directly observed and serves as the only plausible explanation for how we came to be, but of course certain Christian groups won't accept this and want schools to teach their bullshit as if it was equal to genuine science. Evolution has never been directly observed. The only thing that has been observed is natural selection. Nor is natural selection a "plausible explanation for how we came to be," if by "we" you mean how living things "came to be," because it only operates after something has come to be. quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The issues aren't even being framed in the right way anymore See above. K.

MrRodgers -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 11:24:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett Correction: Islamic governments oppress women. Islam as a religion is no more oppressive of women than Christianity. The difference is that because of political reasons many parts of the Middle East and Africa tend to be breeding grounds for religious extremism. Of course extremism leads to inequality. If you look at any group of Christian extremists, a cult for example, women are just as oppressed. Not quite true. The so-called honor killings, beating of the wife, acid attacks etc. are perpetrated by members of society. Govt. may sanction it (refuse to end it through courts and penalty) but govt. itself only rarely gets involved. (Islam used to hang single, widowed or divorced women once they reached 60 that long ago British occupation put a stop to) Obviously in some cases, govt. does get involved. Most religious law as it were in Islam is of tribal origin as in Sunnis and Shiites not believing in the same things. It is my reading for example that most Muslims do not want Taliban, Sharia law or a Sunni caliphate. Those who do, subscribe to particular tribal laws. People forget and yes, sometimes for partisan reasons, that the Sunnis and Shiites lived in relative harmony before our invasion and destruction of Iraqi society allowed Iraq to fester into a secular civil war. Extremism has its origin in the insecurity of those not having attained the power they seek, so kill for that purpose as when for one example, even Bin Laden told al-Zarqawi to stop the bombings in Iraq. (Muslim murdering Muslim) And [he] refused, wanting to be the Caliphate of a new ISIS. Negative politics become often ridiculous attempts to always try to paint the other side as the cause of all evils we ourselves perceive.

tweakabelle -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/20/2016 11:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuBrett Why does everyone on here seem to be so bigoted? Who all out there supports true values? Let's hear it for racial, religious, and gender equality! Yes indeed. Let's hear it for genuine across the board equality. Sadly there is a minority here who aren't interested in a value like this preferring to wallow in their bigotry and hate. The only interesting thing about it is the level of creativity and invention they bring to rationalising their pet hates. Sad and pathetic they are but please try not to let them depress you too much - that way the bigots win. On a more positive note, my observation is that most people posting here are pretty broad minded and appreciate the good sense of living and let live. It's really a bit of a mystery to me why each of us, who have all experienced some level of marginalisation or exclusion because of our various kinks are unable to work it out that that horrible feeling is the one they generate in others with their bigotry. Or perhaps they do and enjoy the pain they cause ...

heavyblinker -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/21/2016 3:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The issues aren't even being framed in the right way anymore... Which you know, of course, because you know the "right way" to frame things. Would I have said so if I didn't think I did? No, I wouldn't have. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker there are some really cynical people out there who have a deep-seated disdain for their audiences See above. K. I'm not a media outlet... what are you even talking about? quote: Evolution has never been directly observed. The only thing that has been observed is natural selection. Nor is natural selection a "plausible explanation for how we came to be," if by "we" you mean how living things "came to be," because it only operates after something has come to be. http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutionexplained/a/ObservedEvolution.htm

heavyblinker -> RE: Why all the negative politics? (12/21/2016 4:14:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 What you consider "reason", does not sound like "reasonable" to the right. It infact sounds more emotional most of the time. Emotion and reason are not in direct conflict with each other. http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/09/18/emotion-is-not-the-enemy-of-reason/ quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I consider the right wing the more pragmatic set of beliefs. And Left wing, the more emotional set of beliefs. What a ridiculously simplistic way of looking at things. You're not alone, unfortunately. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Again, you are Canadian, a very left slanted upbringing. Your beliefs are influence by your environment. Your beliefs may not be what is right but what you perceived as right. I've lived in 7 different countries now-- not visited as a tourist, actually lived there. The more I see of the world and different societies, the more liberal I become. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I grew up in a right slanted society. Capitalist city. We value pragmatism over being humane. So wait... Canada isn't capitalist? Why do you need to value pragmatism over being humane? You can't do both? quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 The only problem with the right in the US, especially the ones that come from bible belt, is that, religion interferes with their pragmatism and that's where I depart from them. It's not just the religious ones... the gun nuts, the climate deniers, the conspiracy theorists, the racists, the xenophobes, the poor-me white males, etc.... all of them are pretty irrational. Look at one of RM's threads and tell me he is being more rational than I am now. You seriously think that what I'm saying is less rational than 'LOCK HER UP!'? quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I came from a school of thought that is all about pure pragmatism. Like for example, banning abortion is not a pragmatic solution, and will cause alot of unwanted babies. If it was pragmatic. We would have adopted it. I mean, we ban alot of things, but we don't ban abortion because it's not practical. The left are traditionally the pro-choice ones. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 We are soooo practical that we ban gum practically so that we don't have to waste money cleaning gum up from irresponsible gum users. We are obsess with public cleanliness and gum stains are the hardest to keep cleaning it off! So...

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