quote:

“New York City’s watchdog Department of Investigations has just provided the latest evidence of how easy it is to commit voter fraud that is almost undetectable. DOI undercover agents showed up at 63 polling places last fall and pretended to be voters who should have been turned away by election officials; the agents assumed the names of individuals who had died or moved out of town, or who were sitting in jail. In 61 instances, or 97 percent of the time, the testers were allowed to vote. DOI published its findings two weeks ago in a searing 70-page report accusing the city’s Board of Elections of incompetence, waste, nepotism, and lax procedures…

“Guerrilla videographer James O’Keefe had three of his assistants visit precincts during New Hampshire’s January 2012 presidential primary. They asked poll workers whether their books listed the names of several voters, all deceased individuals still listed on voter-registration rolls. Poll workers handed out ten ballots, never once asking for a photo ID. O’Keefe’s team immediately gave back the ballots, unmarked, to precinct workers. …The only precinct in which O’Keefe or his crew did not obtain a ballot was one in which the local precinct officer had personally known the dead “voter.”..

“In 2012 one of O’Keefe’s assistants was able to obtain Attorney General Eric Holder’s ballot even though Holder is 62 years old and bears no resemblance to the 22-year-old white man who obtained it merely by asking if Eric Holder was on the rolls. But the Department of Justice, which is currently suing Texas to block that state’s photo-ID law, dismissed the Holder ballot incident as “manufactured.” The irony was lost on the DOJ that Holder, a staunch opponent of voter-ID laws, could have himself been disenfranchised by a white man because Washington, D.C., has no voter-ID law…

“What the DOI investigators were able to do was eerily similar to actual fraud that has occurred in New York before. [note the D next to the woman's name] In 1984, Brooklyn’s Democratic district attorney, Elizabeth Holtzman, released a state grand-jury report on a successful 14-year conspiracy that cast thousands of fraudulent votes in local, state, and congressional elections. Just like the DOI undercover operatives, the conspirators cast votes at precincts in the names of dead, moved, and bogus voters. The grand jury recommended voter ID, a basic election-integrity measure that New York has steadfastly refused to implement…

“Love this part: Polls consistently show that more than 70 percent of Americans — including clear majorities of African Americans and Hispanics — support such laws…

“After all, even a small number of votes can have sweeping consequences. Al Franken’s 312-vote victory in 2008 over Minnesota senator Norm Coleman gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate majority of 60 votes, which allowed them to pass Obamacare. Months after the Obamacare vote, a conservative group called Minnesota Majority finished comparing criminal records with voting rolls and identified 1,099 felons — all ineligible to vote — who had voted in the Franken–Coleman race. Fox News random interviews with ten of those felons found that nine had voted for Franken, backing up national academic studies that show felons tend to vote strongly for Democrats.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-proof-its-easy-john-fund

quote:

Our data comes from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study (CCES). Its large number of observations (32,800 in 2008 and 55,400 in 2010) provide sufficient samples of the non-immigrant sub-population, with 339 non-citizen respondents in 2008 and 489 in 2010. For the 2008 CCES, we also attempted to match respondents to voter files so that we could verify whether they actually voted.

How many non-citizens participate in U.S. elections?

More than 14 percent of non-citizens in both the 2008 and 2010 samples indicated that they were registered to vote. Furthermore, some of these non-citizens voted. Our best guess, based upon extrapolations from the portion of the sample with a verified vote, is that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010.

If they mean 6.4 percent of 11 million illegal immigrants… we’re talking about roughly 700,000 votes being cast by non-citizens in 2008. Stunning. If true, it refutes my earlier contention that proven cases of voter fraud would only swing elections in races that come down to a few hundred votes.

But this section is fascinating:

…Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

[so, identifications that were either fake, or otherwise did not rely on citizenship to procure]

quote:

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that more investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

oh of course, what was I thinking?

so now the choice is either between a liberal interpretation of events, or a liberal revision of history.

what will disqualify either of them from being the case is your showing commentary from the constitutional convention, the federalist papers, or any other period pieces in which the issue of slavery and the electoral college are not only linked, but that the former is the reason for the latter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

The Electoral College is outdated and no longer serves its purpose...

great, please state its original purpose such that you can subsequently make the argument as to how its outdated and no longer serves that purpose.

Gladly. The TRUE original purpose of the Electoral College, was to protect the institution of slavery in the southern states (under the guise of "states rights"). Slave owners (which included some Presidents (e.g. James Madison) continued to use "States rights" as a tool to legitimize slavery until the 13th Amendment.

Hello 13th Amendment, goodbye original purpose of the Electoral College. (It was a bad idea in its origin, and a worse idea now.)

More recently, it has just become a tool for Republicans who, (in their current platform) could NEVER win a Nationwide popular vote election, to overturn the popular vote. (Even against a horribly flawed candidate like Hilary Clinton). The Electoral College, combined with massive gerrymandering at the state level allows the Republicans to hijack any elements of our Democracy (yeah, I know... We're a "Constitutional Republic")....

North Carolina is a poster child for this.

Did you notice that Hillary did best in the states with large numbers of illegals and who make voter fraud easy. Democrats fight voter ID because with it they couldn't win elections, what with the need for you to be alive, be a citizen, and to only vote once.

I don't know of any state who makes voter fraud easy. Considering there is ZERO evidence of ANY voter fraud, other than a few isolated cases (particularly that could be solved by Voter ID).

I used to live in California. I needed to present my birth cert, and proof of citizenship to get my Social Security Card (didn't get a # at birth like my kids did). You need a valid Social Security # to register to vote in California.

I am not sure what states "make voter fraud easy". Please cite some evidence or describe what you mean.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds"

quote:

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that more investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

nah, there's no "voter fraud"...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

oh no comrades, fox news!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Since voter ID is how you would catch voter fraud you don't want to have it, when it is proven that the only vote that is depressed by voter Id is fraudulent
votes.
Ca issues several kinds of ID to illegals, this gives them a gateway to voting.
Haven't you heard, if you live here you should be able to vote?
Then there are the hoards of dead people who vote in Chicago, a known fact for decades.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds"

quote:

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that more investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

nah, there's no "voter fraud"...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

oh no comrades, fox news!

Nope. Sorry... These "Conservative Watchdog groups" use a database which intentionally creates false matches (similar to the tactic Katherine Harris deployed in 2000 in Florida). If you ask this "Conservative Wathcdog group" to actually produce real evidence of an actual match of a felon voting, they would just shit their pants.

(And the fact that states even have laws stripping people of their right to vote, simply because they committed a felony is yet another reason to dump the Electoral College.)

But I do concede the point. There definitely was fraud, committed by a "Conservative Watchdog group"

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

oh of course, what was I thinking?

so now the choice is either between a liberal interpretation of events, or a liberal revision of history.

what will disqualify either of them from being the case is your showing commentary from the constitutional convention, the federalist papers, or any other period pieces in which the issue of slavery and the electoral college are not only linked, but that the former is the reason for the latter.

Sigh... Of course they are not going to write out their true intentions. How about listening to James Madison?

the direct election of the president would be unfair to the South because the “right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern states; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Got a cite for the proof of the existence of this database which creates false matches? Or is that just the conclusion of those on the left against voter ID?

quote:

sorry your quote notwithstanding, the idea that the electoral college somehow benefitted southern states is a far cry from saying it was invented or even adopted for that purpose.

quote:

you want to ascribe sinister purposes to our founders

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds"

quote:

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that more investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

nah, there's no "voter fraud"...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

oh no comrades, fox news!

Nope. Sorry... These "Conservative Watchdog groups" use a database which intentionally creates false matches (similar to the tactic Katherine Harris deployed in 2000 in Florida). If you ask this "Conservative Wathcdog group" to actually produce real evidence of an actual match of a felon voting, they would just shit their pants.

(And the fact that states even have laws stripping people of their right to vote, simply because they committed a felony is yet another reason to dump the Electoral College.)

But I do concede the point. There definitely was fraud, committed by a "Conservative Watchdog group"

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Since voter ID is how you would catch voter fraud you don't want to have it, when it is proven that the only vote that is depressed by voter Id is fraudulent
votes.
Ca issues several kinds of ID to illegals, this gives them a gateway to voting.
Haven't you heard, if you live here you should be able to vote?
Then there are the hoards of dead people who vote in Chicago, a known fact for decades.

1) California does not issue Social Security cards. They are issued by the Federal Government. You need an SS# to register (as far as I know). Please cite how a California ID can be a gateway to voting.

2) A known fact for decades? Known to whom? (Viewers of Fox News?) Please cite names, SS#'s and dates and candidates of votes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

oh of course, what was I thinking?

so now the choice is either between a liberal interpretation of events, or a liberal revision of history.

what will disqualify either of them from being the case is your showing commentary from the constitutional convention, the federalist papers, or any other period pieces in which the issue of slavery and the electoral college are not only linked, but that the former is the reason for the latter.

Sigh... Of course they are not going to write out their true intentions. How about listening to James Madison?

the direct election of the president would be unfair to the South because the “right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern states; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes.”

of course, how inconvenient of me to ask.

then all you and the huffington post are left (no pun intended) to do is to put your raaaacist spin on it.

sorry your quote notwithstanding, the idea that the electoral college somehow benefitted southern states is a far cry from saying it was invented or even adopted for that purpose.

with no real evidence (all you did there was post a quote that's ubiquitous on the sites claiming the reason for the electoral college is because of slavery), you want to ascribe sinister purposes to our founders---and then of course also charge them with being secretive about it to boot.

im fond of saying this to vile critter parts: if this were an argument for a paper you were turning in at the college level, it wouldn't pass muster.

some of us weren't voted "most gullible" in our senior classes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Got a cite for the proof of the existence of this database which creates false matches? Or is that just the conclusion of those on the left against voter ID?

never mind that he's hanging his hat on only one of the ~dozen instances I provided, not all of which are by "conservative watchdog groups" (oh no comrades!),I would expect the same amount of proof there that he gave for his the electoral college was invented to protect slavery position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds"

quote:

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that more investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

nah, there's no "voter fraud"...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

oh no comrades, fox news!

Nope. Sorry... These "Conservative Watchdog groups" use a database which intentionally creates false matches (similar to the tactic Katherine Harris deployed in 2000 in Florida). If you ask this "Conservative Wathcdog group" to actually produce real evidence of an actual match of a felon voting, they would just shit their pants.

(And the fact that states even have laws stripping people of their right to vote, simply because they committed a felony is yet another reason to dump the Electoral College.)

But I do concede the point. There definitely was fraud, committed by a "Conservative Watchdog group"

Got a cite for the proof of the existence of this database which creates false matches? Or is that just the conclusion of those on the left against voter ID?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

a little overlap here from what ive just posted, but some new stuff too:

regular evidence abounds of dead people voting, people stealing others' votes, illegal aliens voting, felons voting, and people voting more than once.

leftists continually ignore that and put forth things like what lucy did there.

heres a good read (among others):

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds.html

and this too: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4825645/mpage_3/tm.htm (my post #39)

now add into the mix the fact that voter ID laws actually have served to increase voter turnout amongst the population the mean, greedy, racist republicans, and the comrades have nothing on which to hang their hats.

for more fun reading:

https://unpoliticallycorrect2016.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/democrats-arrested-andor-convicted-of-voter-fraud/

here's a fantastic collection: http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/pdf/VoterFraudCases-Merged-3-2.pdf

(and just for fun, do a key word search for "democrat" and see how often it shows up)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

sorry your quote notwithstanding, the idea that the electoral college somehow benefitted southern states is a far cry from saying it was invented or even adopted for that purpose.

True, except that in this case that was indeed one of the issues the EC was intended to address.

quote:

you want to ascribe sinister purposes to our founders

No, no sinister purpose, just imperfect political compromise within the ethics and morality of the time.