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A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 9:57:57 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/02/news/economy/finland-universal-basic-income/index.html

Finland is experimentally giving a universal guaranteed paycheck to 2000 unemployed people, providing them with security for basic needs so they will seek jobs without fear of losing unemployment income. The experiment will last for two years and expand to the entire population if it is deemed successful.

Advocates point to the Italian city of Livorno, which started a guaranteed basic income for the city's 100 poorest families in June. The scheme was extended to further 100 families starting Sunday. They are receiving €500 ($525) per month.

Pilot programs are also being discussed in Canada, Iceland, Uganda and Brazil.

Switzerland last year considered giving every adult citizen a guaranteed income of $2,500 a month, but the plan was rejected in a referendum. More than 75% of voters were against the measure.

The best example of a guaranteed income program might actually be in the U.S. Alaska has been giving out annual cash payments to all residents since the 1980s, a dividend from the state's oil revenue.

Might this be a good idea?

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:17:45 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		Quite probably, but good luck getting something like that past a Republican controlled Congress.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:41:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Status: offline 		Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:48:22 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		Whom amongst us knows what quantative stretching means and 43.5 orgasm and thrashings of the loins = wickeds cock and mind, a formidable combination of doom and pleasure – that’s me with a wench or nymphomaniac …I destroy them all you know, it simply excites me to do so not that I can find one of em blighters these days

Quantitative easing is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing difficult to explain that’s where they print money give it to the top of the pyramid scheme for them to embezzle, and shag all makes it down to the bottom…really.

These benefits, every penny, will be pumped back into to the economy from the bottom of the pyramid up – this makes total sense

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:50:02 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.

Because, of course, giving handouts to the Finns has destroyed their whole economy, hasn't it?

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:54:31 AM   
WickedsDesire


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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 10:55:41 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.


Beats giving money to people who want to stir up shit in the Middle East, restart a nuclear arms race or build a fucking wall between the US and Mexico.

In fact, I would rather pay people to be lazy and do nothing than pay for any of Trump's absolutely retarded fucking policies.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 11:06:22 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		The conspicuously evaded problem with libertarian/social darwinist attitudes towards welfare is that countries with a higher level of welfare spending tend to have less people on welfare than those countries who take the line that paying people a dole removes their will to work and make it as difficult and degrading as they can. The standard dismissal is, of course, "oh, those socialists can only do that by stealing taxes from those who work to feed themselves", but this doesn't alter the fact that the western nations that charge higher taxes and provide a more comprehensive social safety net for their citizens tend to have much healthier economies. Possibly having a publicly funded infrastructure that includes half decent public schools, socialised medicine funded through a single payer plan and public transport that don't seem to have been designed purely make a dog laugh produces a more employable population? Of course, that's a concept that libertarians could never accept...

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 11:16:32 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Might this be a good idea?


I'm going to have to say no.

I don't really care so much about the whole 'welfare queen' thing so much as I really do think that people would be less motivated. I've met enough old money people to know that not having a need for long-term goals, not having a routine that involves work, etc... produces some of the laziest, most worthless creatures ever. All of these 'life of leisure' people make me sick.

I don't think that would be everyone and I don't think that shame or guilt are the best motivators... but I would be more likely to support a program in which people were given a free education along with comfortable housing in a community that supports learning, personal betterment and career development than no-strings-attached handouts.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 11:26:23 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minimum-income-hugh-segal-ontario-budget-1.3740373
this is some info about the plan in Canada....
The long-debated idea of a guaranteed minimum annual income for Canadians moves a small step closer to reality this week.

Former Conservative senator Hugh Segal delivers a report this week on how the "basic income pilot" announced in Ontario's February budget might work.

The Ontario government earmarked $25 million this fiscal year to establish a pilot project in the province sometime before April 2017, and appointed Segal in late June as an unpaid special adviser.

In an interview with CBC News, Segal gave some hints about his report, which is expected to be made public in mid-September for three months of public consultations.

"For all those good folks on the right … who say that if you pay people to do nothing, they will do nothing, I remind them that 70 per cent of the people who live beneath the poverty line in Ontario … have jobs.

"They just don't earn enough through minimum wage to be above the poverty line," he said.

"So the notion that this is about chocolate, and couches, and popcorn, and watching TV is actually without any substantial basis in fact."

Segal, long an anti-poverty advocate, says any pilot project in Ontario must be in place for at least three years to be able to measure impacts effectively.
That is snipped, not the full article.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 11:32:49 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
The conspicuously evaded problem with libertarian/social darwinist attitudes towards welfare is that countries with a higher level of welfare spending tend to have less people on welfare than those countries who take the line that paying people a dole removes their will to work and make it as difficult and degrading as they can.


They also have programs in place that actually force people to work if they've been idle too long, and it's not like they make it easy for the people who are on welfare to stay on it for too long. There's a lot of prodding you towards getting back into the job market and finding a career-- the government watches you pretty closely, because in the welfare states they have the means to do it.

Welfare states do best when they are good at building communities and have a common culture that makes people feel like they are capable of making valuable contributions. Just giving people handouts in a society where materialistic rewards are more of a priority than a job well done is just going to produce a lot of spoiled children.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 1:03:18 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.


Pay people to not work

What could possibly go wrong

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 1:06:44 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		They ran a pilot program along those lines some time back (in Manitoba I think) that had some success if I recall correctly. I'll see if I can find something on it.

Well that was easy enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

< Message edited by ThatDizzyChick -- 1/8/2017 1:09:10 PM >

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 1:13:58 PM   
Baldrick


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Status: offline 		Finland is starting a pilot project for the unemployed

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/03/finland-trials-basic-income-for-unemployed

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 2:12:03 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.


Beats giving money to people who want to stir up shit in the Middle East, restart a nuclear arms race or build a fucking wall between the US and Mexico.

In fact, I would rather pay people to be lazy and do nothing than pay for any of Trump's absolutely retarded fucking policies.

Of course you would. Better to steal from those you don't believe deserve what they've worked for than pay for things you personally disagree with even though you see nothing wrong with people having to pay for Obama policies they disagreed with because, you know...he's the President. And everybody pays taxes because, you know...policies. Oh wait...Trump will be President.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 2:24:57 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.


Pay people to not work

What could possibly go wrong

Give drillers a resource depletion credit?

Pay farmers not to plant crops?

Targeted socialism or socialism for all??

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 2:43:30 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Might this be a good idea?


Everything depends on whether you're rich or you're poor, apparently. In the UK, the slightest percentage taken off an already enormously rich man will lead to the entire destruction of his morale and all will to work. Hence the last Tory/LibDem government getting rid of the 50% rate of tax on top incomes, for instance. On the other hand, taking money off the people at the bottom and on benefits will *encourage* them to find jobs. Because we're talking about two entirely different sorts of people, you see.

End of sarcasm.

I think the acceptance of this idea of a minimum wage depends upon two different sets of arguments. One is about economics; the other is about human nature. The first *might* get solved, given a lot of evidence. The second set of arguments, though, depends on whether you view people as inclined to want to be productive, or as inclined to want to be lazy; tending to want to contribute to society, or tending to rip others off as much as one is able to get away with. There are very, very entrenched views on both, of course. In fact, arguably, contrasting views on human nature are what divide Left and Right in politics more fundamentally than anything else.

A long winded way of saying: the minimum wage idea is a really, really radical idea, to me. But that doesn't at all mean to say it's unworkable. It might just mean that you have a monumental wall of prejudices to blast a hole through - though that's a big 'just'.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 4:41:31 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sure...let's give money to everyone who didn't earn it...from those folks who did.


Pay people to not work

What could possibly go wrong

Give drillers a resource depletion credit?

Pay farmers not to plant crops?

Targeted socialism or socialism for all??
Are they not doing any work at all? Not growing any crops? Not doing any drilling? Boss and workers sitting on their ass, watching T.V....gambling (with taxpayer money)...drinking?

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 5:11:37 PM   
BamaD


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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Quite probably, but good luck getting something like that past a Republican controlled Congress.

Republican controlled legislature in Alaska.

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RE: A guarenteed paycheck for all? - 1/8/2017 5:48:20 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/02/news/economy/finland-universal-basic-income/index.html

Finland is experimentally giving a universal guaranteed paycheck to 2000 unemployed people, providing them with security for basic needs so they will seek jobs without fear of losing unemployment income. The experiment will last for two years and expand to the entire population if it is deemed successful.

Advocates point to the Italian city of Livorno, which started a guaranteed basic income for the city's 100 poorest families in June. The scheme was extended to further 100 families starting Sunday. They are receiving €500 ($525) per month.

I been waiting for one country to give guaranteed income to ALL their citizens to see if it actually works.

But I guess this is the closest to it. Glad Finland is gonna be guinea pig with a small population of just 2000 people.

I hope they report the outcome.

That livorno city though, WTF! How can a family survive on $525 a month. I couldn't even survive on that for basic needs as a single person who lives alone!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/8/2017 5:49:06 PM >

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