The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 6:05:25 AM)

It’s a sign of our hyper-polarized times that we can’t seem to sort through the simplest of controversies. Yes, the debate over whether Russia used WikiLeaks (and other means) to attempt to influence the 2016 election is important, but that doesn’t make it remotely complex. Factually and conceptually there is ample ground for consensus. Let’s start with four key truths.

First, WikiLeaks is not our friend. As Jonah Goldberg relates in his piece today, it’s been astonishing to watch attitudes shift on Julian Assange & Co. When it was busy engineering and facilitating the largest intelligence leaks in American military history, WikiLeaks was praised by fringe figures on the left and universally reviled on the right. Now it’s reviled on the left and praised on the right.

This is unconscionable. WikiLeaks is not suddenly under new management, and Assange has not had a change of heart. He has targeted the American government time and again.

Second, Americans should unite in opposition to foreign attempts to influence election outcomes. It’s fair to ask whether Russia did in fact attempt to influence American public opinion through illegitimate means. It’s one thing for foreign leaders to publicly criticize candidates. It’s another thing entirely to steal information, plant fake stories in the media, and otherwise use deception and subterfuge to influence our Democratic process.

We can’t be afraid of the truth. There has to be a complete and (to the extent possible without disclosing vital intelligence assets) transparent public investigation of Russian intelligence activities in 2016. We have to examine actions and intentions. We have to examine the extent of the damage, if any, and gauge as much as possible the impact on our politics. This is a matter of national defense.

In the weeks since our intelligence agencies accused the Russians of meddling in the election, however, it seems like parts of the GOP have been transplanted to the Berkeley quad circa 1971. There’s anti-government paranoia (“This is all a conspiracy against Trump!”) and moral equivalence (“So what? America interferes with foreign governments all the time”). That’s the power of polarization. The quest for victory transforms you into the very thing you once claimed to hate.

Third, politicians, including the president-elect, shouldn’t publicly attack intelligence agencies simply because those agencies reach disagreeable conclusions. .....it is unprecedented for the president-elect of the United States to cast aspersions on intelligence conclusions before he’s seen the evidence.

No good can come of this development. It places pressure on eager-to-please bureaucrats to tell the incoming president what he wants to hear. It antagonizes hostile bureaucrats, incentivizing conflict between the Oval Office and our intelligence agencies.

Fourth, there is still no evidence that the Russians changed the outcome of the election. It is true that Julian Assange is anti-American.

It’s likely true that the Russians worked to disrupt and influence American public debate, and it’s possibly true that they did so to elect Donald Trump. But it’s still wildly speculative to claim that Russian actions were decisive.

One of America’s most well-known celebrities ran against one of America’s most well-known politicians. After billions of dollars worth of earned and purchased media, after millions of words of coverage, both candidates ended up where they began —disliked by a majority of Americans. Indeed, Trump won despite being more disliked than Hillary. His unfavorability rating was a stunning 60 percent. Hers was “only” 55 percent.

As with so many pre-inauguration controversies, the hype is worse than the substance, and the hype causes even good people to say and do foolish things. Now is not the time to reevaluate clear truths about WikiLeaks and Russia simply because you may like the consequences of their improper actions. Nor is it the time to cast election results into doubt absent compelling evidence. It’s the time to investigate — not hyperventilate.

HERE





heavyblinker -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 6:59:42 AM)

Does anyone actually think that a Hillary vs. Jeb, Kasich, Paul or Rubio election would have led to the same climate of fear, hatred and anger?

Asking these people not to be outraged conspiracists and imploring them to think rationally is like asking water not to be wet. You can't undo years of RWNJ media conditioning with a single article, or in a single year, or over a single presidential term... and definitely not while someone like Trump is indulging them every time he makes a tweet.

I'm pretty much convinced that the whole 'changed the outcome of the election' thing is almost entirely an RWNJ talking point trying to introduce more polarization into the issue-- probably so Trump looks like a victim of bias instead of someone who cannot be trusted to follow through with a much-needed investigation. All of the dreaded left-wing media I've been reading has been repeatedly saying that Trump was elected by racists, victims of the global economy, conspiracy theorists and the GOP faithful... Putin merely helped bring these people together, and was a factor but not the sole cause.

Trump's behavior has pretty much convinced me he's in Putin's pocket somehow. I don't buy that it's merely Trump's ego, some sort of fucked up bromance or a shared love of autocracy... whether he's protecting his business interests, collaborated on everything, or what-- something is seriously wrong there. No one is insane or stupid enough to defend a foreign country over their own for no reason... not even Trump. He's dirty and I hope someone finds the connection before it's too late.




Musicmystery -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 7:07:46 AM)

Trump came out of the gate spewing hate and bullshit.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just making stuff up.




WhoreMods -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 7:45:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Trump's behavior has pretty much convinced me he's in Putin's pocket somehow. I don't buy that it's merely Trump's ego, some sort of fucked up bromance or a shared love of autocracy... whether he's protecting his business interests, collaborated on everything, or what-- something is seriously wrong there.

As has been pointed out before when this was raised, one of the KGB's stock methods of manipulation was blackmail. The cockwomble's investments in Russia began when it was still the Soviet Union, and Putin was in the KGB before he went into politics. It's not inconceivable that he has some dirt on the tiny-handed shitweasel that his orange bitch doesn't want to see shared with the rest of the world.
Another, more worrying, possibility is that el presidente is hoping for some tips from Putin on how to asset-strip a government and then pocket the money. That is how Putin and his oligarch cronies earned their vast personal fortunes, after all.




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 7:53:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
First, WikiLeaks is not our friend.


Another Russia thread? Really?

You freaks thought Wikileaks was the greatest thing since Karl Marx back when they were posting stuff about W

But now that they have exposed Hillary and her alt left media friends... Not so much?

You fuckwads couldn't be bigger hypocrites. Let's not forget Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy secretly (lionized and loved by Hillary & Co) asking the USSR to help throw the election against Reagan back in 1984 either

All Wikileaks did was expose the truth, which our media was trying to hide - how is that bad. Some of what they exposed was the alt left media colluding with Hillary. I could go on and on, but why - this ground has been covered many times already.

The alt left - NO compass. TOTALLY lost.




WhoreMods -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 7:56:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
You freaks thought Wikileaks was the greatest thing since Karl Marx back when they were posting stuff about W

But now that they have exposed Hillary and her alt left media friends... Not so much?

That's the OP's point, you fucktard.




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 7:58:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Trump came out of the gate spewing hate and bullshit.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just making stuff up.


Hillary called those voting against her irredeemable deplorables

What is that, subhuman or something

The same way people like Saddam and Hitler and Stalin, and so many others saw those they dumped into mass graves

Obama said, they bring a knife, we bring a gun

So fuck off little man, its about time we had someone on the right who knows how to take you jackals on at your own game





bounty44 -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:01:55 AM)

its increasingly becoming that everything the left disagrees with is reducible to "hate", and that of course defined in their own self-serving way.




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:05:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

its increasingly becoming that everything the left disagrees with is reducible to "hate", and that of course defined in their own self-serving way.


And that they really seem to think that everyone who disagrees with them needs to be rounded up and dealt with appropriately eh

Because they are the open minded and tolerant ones




MrRodgers -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:07:23 AM)

As much as anything, I posted this to show how such ridiculous and cheap partisanship can cause the right in particular, to change their stripes and lose their integrity to the so-called 'conservative ' cause.

It hasn't taken long for today's right to backslide on cleaning out the swamp but of course, so many of its sponsors...are the swamp.

It hasn't taken long for the right to continue their rent-seeking ways in support of big govt. (MIC) and seek to bring more 'capitalism' for the poor (cut everything in sight) while maintaining...socialism for the rich.

One could go on but by now...a waste of time. The constituencies are plain to see while the real establishment of the right (capital/bankers/corp.) is set. The left supports people, the right could get back to their ancient roots but instead...support capital in every instance.

Just the very concept of 'privatizing' soc. sec. (over $16 billion per year in fees to gamble with our retirement) for wall street should make us all sick.

But yes, unfortunately, we just don't know and can hardly trust just what leverage Putin (Russia) or any country...may hold over Trump.

I am thinking these upcoming confirmation hearings will be must-see-TV.






Musicmystery -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:08:35 AM)

No, you just keep making up shit instead of ever dealing with what's actually the case.

It's what makes you silly and irrelevant. And a considerable moron.

[sm=dunno.gif]

Whatever. Play your game.

But it will remain just a silly game.




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:12:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

It hasn't taken long for today's right to backslide on cleaning out the swamp


Like so many others on the left, you are so lost - you have no idea what that even means

It doesn't mean that President Trump has to hire janitors or homeless people for all of his cabinet posts, as you seem to assume. Stand back and observe, and you will see what it means

Long as you have a good guide. You won't be able to read about in in VOX or HuffnPoo, ot KOS or NYT or NPR, or any of your other traditional alt left pipe organs though

President Trump is putting people in charge who know how to get things done, we have a freight train coming through




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:13:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No, you just keep making up shit instead of ever dealing with what's actually the case.

It's what makes you silly and irrelevant. And a considerable moron.

[sm=dunno.gif]

Whatever. Play your game.

But it will remain just a silly game.


If I am so irrelevant why do you always have your tongue up my ass, stalker boy




MrRodgers -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:16:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Trump came out of the gate spewing hate and bullshit.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just making stuff up.


Hillary called those voting against her irredeemable deplorables

What is that, subhuman or something

The same way people like Saddam and Hitler and Stalin, and so many others saw those they dumped into mass graves

Obama said, they bring a knife, we bring a gun

So fuck off little man, its about time we had someone on the right who knows how to take you jackals on at your own game



You are correct with that statement of Hillary's but the left is also and even more so correct in that Trump appealed on the basis of making America great...er, white again. Utterly and falsely claims to be able to bring back jobs we all know are gone forever, build a wall that Mex. will in fact...NOT pay for to keep out people...'not like us.'

And I remember all to well a cover of the Clintons walking away on NR with the caption...'so long creep' only to now.celebrate at least an equal if not worse creep.

BTW Obama was talking right wing lingo...so ?




Musicmystery -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:19:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No, you just keep making up shit instead of ever dealing with what's actually the case.

It's what makes you silly and irrelevant. And a considerable moron.

[sm=dunno.gif]

Whatever. Play your game.

But it will remain just a silly game.


If I am so irrelevant why do you always have your tongue up my ass, stalker boy


Well, you keep replying to my posts with bullshit instead of discussion.

Look up projection. It's a useful word. Then learn what alt-left means. You just look silly misusing it.




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:20:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Trump came out of the gate spewing hate and bullshit.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just making stuff up.


Hillary called those voting against her irredeemable deplorables

What is that, subhuman or something

The same way people like Saddam and Hitler and Stalin, and so many others saw those they dumped into mass graves

Obama said, they bring a knife, we bring a gun

So fuck off little man, its about time we had someone on the right who knows how to take you jackals on at your own game



You are correct with that statement of Hillary's but the left is also and even more so correct in that Trump appealed on the basis of making America great...er, white again. Utterly and falsely claims to be able to bring back jobs we all know are gone forever, build a wall that Mex. will in fact...NOT pay for to keep out people...'not like us.'

And I remember all to well a cover of the Clintons walking away on NR with the caption...'so long creep' only to now.celebrate at least an equal if not worse creep.

BTW Obama was talking right wing lingo...so ?


"White again" is pure alt left propaganda, with no basis in truth whatsoever

Hateful rhetoric, designed to make race relations even worse

Hate propaganda that can be directly attributed to riots and even the kidnapping and torture of a white mentally disabled teenager by a black gang




WhoreMods -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:25:57 AM)

The tiny-handed shitweasel seems more interested in enlarging the swamp than draining it since November, that's for sure.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:27:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Just the very concept of 'privatizing' soc. sec. (over $16 billion per year in fees to gamble with our retirement) for wall street should make us all sick.

Well.... they've already done it with healthcare.
O'bama tried to fix it but the good old GOP watered it down so much that you ended up with a hotch-potch of the same old shit - profiteering to the max.


FR~
Yanno what??
I used to be in awe of America and the American people when I was younger.
Regardless of the politics, America was seen as one of the very best examples of democracy and living standards.
But lately, I've seen such vitriol and hate spewed on both sides of the fence that I'm glad I'm not over there.

I don't think you can blame either side of the political divide for this.
It seems as if America has imploded on all sides. Very ugly.





heavyblinker -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:28:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
As has been pointed out before when this was raised, one of the KGB's stock methods of manipulation was blackmail. The cockwomble's investments in Russia began when it was still the Soviet Union, and Putin was in the KGB before he went into politics. It's not inconceivable that he has some dirt on the tiny-handed shitweasel that his orange bitch doesn't want to see shared with the rest of the world.
Another, more worrying, possibility is that el presidente is hoping for some tips from Putin on how to asset-strip a government and then pocket the money. That is how Putin and his oligarch cronies earned their vast personal fortunes, after all.


At this point, I'm reluctant to even rule out Trump having been involved in the Russian MKULTRA.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/28/the-soviet-union-spent-1-billion-on-mind-control-programs/




BoscoX -> RE: The Power of Polarization (partisanship) (1/9/2017 8:37:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
FR~
Yanno what??
I used to be in awe of America and the American people when I was younger.
Regardless of the politics, America was seen as one of the very best examples of democracy and living standards.
But lately, I've seen such vitriol and hate spewed on both sides of the fence that I'm glad I'm not over there.

I don't think you can blame either side of the political divide for this.
It seems as if America has imploded on all sides. Very ugly.




What you are seeing, is the conservative side finally growing some balls and taking the alt left on at their own game

And they can't take it. They're losing their fucking marbles, and its a joy to behold




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