RE: Refusal of Goods and Services

RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:31:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The pharmacist would be a problem, it would be life threatening and unacceptable. QFT This has always been my position that non-discrimination should apply to law enforcement, doctors, pharmacists, etc. The gays picked the wrong fight (in my mind) with the bakers. There was also a pizza parlor I seem to remember? It's a shame that everything has to be a crusade, when one is dealing with identity politics, but it is what it is and I look forward to the rest of America studying the blueprint that the PPLs have provided for the last quarter century or so. Study well. It's the new field upon which the battle will be enjoined and, like a lot of things, we might just wind up doing it better than the whiny, cry-baby, SJWs. Michael

BamaD -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:31:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: If Melanie Trump declares that she wants Dior to dress her for the Inauguration, and Dior refuses to due to political beliefs, should Melania be able to take Dior to court for it? The Trump ladies are not a protected class. Nor is political opinion. Simple as that. And it is a political attack against Trump, it is as simple as that. Civil Rights Law does not shelter politicians. Why would you think it does? Do you think there is only one law? Do you think an employer can get away with firing someone for voting the "wrong " way? The same laws that prohibit that would apply to this. Different law same problem.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR In the unlikely event that my Mr. Right decides I'm his Mr. Right and we marry, I wouldn't feel the need or desire to force a baker to make our cake. I'd much rather give the business to someone who'd like to have it. On the other hand, I wouldn't have much patience with a pharmacist who refused to fill a legitimate prescription of mine because it violated his or her beliefs. The pharmacist would be a problem, it would be life threatening and unacceptable. what if it was the morning after pill?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:41:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Do you think there is only one law? Do you think an employer can get away with firing someone for voting the "wrong " way? The same laws that prohibit that would apply to this. Different law same problem. A couple of things, here: in our system, the words "protected class" (or, as the CR lawyers like to say: "Suspect class") should NEVER be used. Laws aimed at just one segment of the population are, by definition: discriminatory. In this particular instance, forget the fact that Melania Trump should actually be a member of a "protected class" if PPLs wanted to show consistency; she's one of those "immigrants" that lefties claim to love. Whether or not someone *sells* anyone a dress is a lot different than encountering a nekkid person on the sidewalk and using your goods (no matter how expensive they may be) to cover that person and afford them some measure of restored dignity. I hope all the lefty SJWs refuse to do business with anyone with whom they don't agree. I hope they do so, publicly. It will expose them for the hypocrites they are and it will help me identify the places where I don't want to spend my money. Good deal! Michael

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NotFiftyShades Leprous whores? Oh my that's even worse than RACIST!! I take back everything I've ever said and all my thoughts too. My my mnottertail. It's a good thing that your name calling has opened my eyes. Oh by the way in case your intelligence fails you I am being sarcastic. that is all I have ever really seen him do here. I assume that is all he is capable of doing.

Musicmystery -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: If Melanie Trump declares that she wants Dior to dress her for the Inauguration, and Dior refuses to due to political beliefs, should Melania be able to take Dior to court for it? The Trump ladies are not a protected class. Nor is political opinion. Simple as that. And it is a political attack against Trump, it is as simple as that. Civil Rights Law does not shelter politicians. Why would you think it does? Do you think there is only one law? Do you think an employer can get away with firing someone for voting the "wrong " way? The same laws that prohibit that would apply to this. Different law same problem. How would the employer know this, in a country that has secret ballot elections?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:55:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery How would the employer know this, in a country that has secret ballot elections? Bumper stickers, lawn signs, being observed going into the offices of a political party, churches ... the list goes on. Michael

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 3:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul what if it was the morning after pill? I believe there are indeed instances of that out there. to echo what Michael and DC were getting at earlier---as soon as government gets involved across the board, it becomes a legal morass. I am all for the law stepping in when it comes to essential services, everything else should be worked out between the people themselves. its how we are most free.

Musicmystery -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 4:09:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery How would the employer know this, in a country that has secret ballot elections? Bumper stickers, lawn signs, being observed going into the offices of a political party, churches ... the list goes on. Michael I see I have to spell this out. Why, if an employee new his/her job was a risk depending on a vote, would that employee tell the employer (or advertise with signs etc.)?

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 4:16:23 PM)
just a couple of the many... Ill. Court: Pharmacists can refuse to sell morning-after pill Walgreens Fires Pharmacist for Refusing to Dispense Plan B

Wayward5oul -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 4:31:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 just a couple of the many... Ill. Court: Pharmacists can refuse to sell morning-after pill Walgreens Fires Pharmacist for Refusing to Dispense Plan B However, since these rulings were made, or at least since the first ruling was made, the morning after pill has become an over the counter product. So pharmacists technically don't have to dispense it. However, some pharmacies still stock it behind the counter and you have to ask for it. There is no reason not to give it, you just ask and they give it to you. But in some places some pharmacy workers cite religious reasons and refuse to do even that. If you go in the next shift, that pharmacy worker may not have a problem with it. Ask and you get it.

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 4:44:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 to echo what Michael and DC were getting at earlier---as soon as government gets involved across the board, it becomes a legal morass. I am all for the law stepping in when it comes to essential services, everything else should be worked out between the people themselves. its how we are most free. "Libertarianism and the Right to Discriminate" quote: ...The Constitution is not a code of conduct to which citizens must submit. It has two primary objectives: to secure personal liberty and limit the power of government. The chains of the Constitution bind government, not individual actions.... From a legal perspective, discrimination should be permitted in any society that honors freedom of association. A member of one religious or racial or ethnic group should not be required, against his or her will, to associate with members of other groups. On the other hand, it’s perfectly consistent to argue from an ethical perspective that religious, racial, and ethnic discrimination is sometimes reprehensible. We should condemn people who practice such discrimination, even as we insist on their legal right to do so. Private discrimination that isn’t engineered by government can be censured via nongovernmental means — for example, refusal to patronize bigots, social ostracism, and adverse publicity regarding the discriminatory acts. We can denounce immoral conduct — such as lying, infidelity, and even bigotry — without empowering the state to take remedial action. https://www.cato.org/policy-report/marchapril-2016/libertarianism-right-discriminate

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 4:48:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 just a couple of the many... Ill. Court: Pharmacists can refuse to sell morning-after pill Walgreens Fires Pharmacist for Refusing to Dispense Plan B However, since these rulings were made, or at least since the first ruling was made, the morning after pill has become an over the counter product. So pharmacists technically don't have to dispense it. However, some pharmacies still stock it behind the counter and you have to ask for it. There is no reason not to give it, you just ask and they give it to you. But in some places some pharmacy workers cite religious reasons and refuse to do even that. If you go in the next shift, that pharmacy worker may not have a problem with it. Ask and you get it. here's a good case in point then to take the argument a smidgen further. there are 7 pharmacies in the two-city area I live in. three of them are locally and privately owned, the other 4 are national chains. I would maintain its completely up to the three as to whether or not they would want to stock the drug.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:04:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 just a couple of the many... Ill. Court: Pharmacists can refuse to sell morning-after pill Walgreens Fires Pharmacist for Refusing to Dispense Plan B However, since these rulings were made, or at least since the first ruling was made, the morning after pill has become an over the counter product. So pharmacists technically don't have to dispense it. However, some pharmacies still stock it behind the counter and you have to ask for it. There is no reason not to give it, you just ask and they give it to you. But in some places some pharmacy workers cite religious reasons and refuse to do even that. If you go in the next shift, that pharmacy worker may not have a problem with it. Ask and you get it. here's a good case in point then to take the argument a smidgen further. there are 7 pharmacies in the two-city area I live in. three of them are locally and privately owned, the other 4 are national chains. I would maintain its completely up to the three as to whether or not they would want to stock the drug. Say the 3 privately owned ones choose not to stock it. That leaves 4 pharmacies in a two city area. At any given time, you could have people within those pharmacies that refuse to handout the drug from behind their counter, if they keep them back there (not all do). Considering that this is a drug that is only effective if taken within a specific time period, should someone be able to deny it, based on their beliefs?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:21:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I see I have to spell this out. Why, if an employee new his/her job was a risk depending on a vote, would that employee tell the employer (or advertise with signs etc.)? Yeah, you're right. When they don't agree with the left they should just shut the fuck up and not speak out. That's a good idea. I've got another good one for you: Why should ANYONE'S job be at risk because of their political beliefs? If that's true, I know a few "journalists" that should be dismissed, immediately. Michael

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:22:39 PM)
if its there, id say the pharmacist is obliged to hand it over. if the pharmacist wont do it, he can get someone else on the staff to do it. a part of me thinks if you cannot perform all your duties in good conscience, you either need to find a way around them, or maybe you shouldn't be in that line of work. on another hand, these are rare instances and general policy shouldn't flow from them.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:38:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 if its there, id say the pharmacist is obliged to hand it over. if the pharmacist wont do it, he can get someone else on the staff to do it. a part of me thinks if you cannot perform all your duties in good conscience, you either need to find a way around them, or maybe you shouldn't be in that line of work. on another hand, these are rare instances and general policy shouldn't flow from them. I agree that general policy shouldn't flow from unusual circumstances. But it always seems to me way too often that that is what ends up happening, those are the cases that end up in the courts and ends up making new laws.

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:42:53 PM)
there doesn't seem to be a lot of these, and ive not read the ones below... I got fired for supporting Trump at a company in Silicon Boss says employees who agree with Trump's rhetoric should resign [VIDEO] Woman Has Blistering Message After Being FIRED For voting for trump Grubhub CEO: Voted for Trump? You're Fired Anchorwoman fired for pro-Trump post goes nuclear on station I came out as a Trump supporter at work and got FIRED now if we want to talk about general job discrimination against conservatives, there are boatloads of those.

dcnovice -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:49:26 PM)
quote: what if it was the morning after pill? That's actually one of the few medications I'm not likely to need in this lifetime. [:)] The hypotheticals that crossed my mind were folks who don't approve of psychiatric medications or painkillers. Or who believe no one should need contraceptives outside of marriage. Another possibility, given that many pharmacies offer flu shots, might be an anti-vaxxer. Then there's the tricky business of folks who don't believe in blood transfusions. How does one balance their rights with a patient's?

bounty44 -> RE: Refusal of Goods and Services (1/16/2017 5:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 if its there, id say the pharmacist is obliged to hand it over. if the pharmacist wont do it, he can get someone else on the staff to do it. a part of me thinks if you cannot perform all your duties in good conscience, you either need to find a way around them, or maybe you shouldn't be in that line of work. on another hand, these are rare instances and general policy shouldn't flow from them. I agree that general policy shouldn't flow from unusual circumstances. But it always seems to me way too often that that is what ends up happening, those are the cases that end up in the courts and ends up making new laws. if that is indeed true, I suppose it comes from two places. one is, our litigious society, and the other is, from groups of people who seek government for redress grievances, as opposed to other means.

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