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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/3/2017 9:38:04 PM   
vincentML


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Jeff . . .

Males or Females . . what is the top military eligible age for enlistment? Many refugees may not qualify. Additionally, you would be disrupting family groups at critical times in their life trajectories. Seems counter productive and cruel.

Paying for their relocation . . . we just made an offer of $38B over 10 years for Israeli military aid. Aid to refugees is chump change.

Obstacles to attaining fluency in written and spoken English language for refugees:

Parents’ views
of education and participants’ educational opportunities
in their home countries also helped shape their attitudes
toward learning.

Further, once in the United States, some
adolescent or adult ELLs may need to earn a living, which
can leave no time for education (Schwarz, 2005).

Some adults lack confidence in their ability to learn (Auerbach,
1996; Cook & Quiñones, 1983; Schwarz, 2005).

Adult English Language Learners with Limited Literacy

In her ethnographic case study, Menard-Warwick (2005)
found explanations for the low literacy attainment of
Central American immigrant women in a family literacy
program. Immigration laws, welfare and the economic
downturn of 2001 all played some role in participants’
inability to persist in their literacy classes.

Parents’ views of education and participants’ educational opportunities
in their home countries also helped shape their attitudes
toward learning.

Cultural influences may hinder adults’ involvement in
education. In some immigrant communities, elders may
be hesitant to undertake English language and literacy
instruction because doing so may jeopardize their stand
-ing in their family or cultural community. For example,
the religious beliefs of the Kurdish Yezidis, according
to Sarroub (2008), advocate avoiding print literacy.

Similarly, Levinson (2007) described resistance to literacy
among English Gypsies. Saki, a participant in Levinson’s
study, lamented, “Education has divorced me from my
community” (p. 30). Saki reported that his older brother
said that he had betrayed all that his family stood for by
becoming educated.

Other participants said that if they
wished to attend adult literacy classes, these classes must
be outside their community, so that even their closest rela
-tives would not know they were attending class.
https://lincs.ed.gov/publications/pdf/ELLpaper2010.pdf

There is more, Jeff. I could go on but my point is that learning the language of a new country in which you are a stranger is not so easy and straight forward as you seem to think it is.

quote:

But now, it seems that everyone wants to send people here instead of dealing with it themselves.


No one is SENDING them. They are refugees ~~~fleeing from intolerable, inhumane conditions with nothing to return to.

quote:

Other countries have some pretty stringent, even draconian requirements for refugees to stay, why not us as well?

Accepting the homeless, the wretched, the poor and tempest tossed is in our DNA as an immigrant country.

quote:

It doesnt help that after they get here, they bitch and complain about shit that they think needs to be changed, which everyone else seems satisfied with, or they dont want to learn the language and get pissed because I sure as hell dont want to learn theirs.


I have heard that complaint many times. My experience is that mostly refugees are happy to be here. My maternal grandparents birthed 12 american children, owned and ran a fish market and chicken market next door to each other, and had meager English fluency. Their sons served in WW2 and their grandchildren have been largely successful.

I taught in schools with large numbers of Latino faculty members. Communication was never a problem. OTOH, I have listened to friends who feel as you do. I think the language objection is just the easiest manifestation of resentment, it is something visible and concrete that substitutes for the general discomfort of being among strangers. Just my opinion of course.

Jeff, taking in refugees is a time honored humane activity that arises from out of the generosity of a nation of immigrants. I think it is something we can be proud of. Miami took in 125,000 refugees in six months in 1980. The community was enriched as a result.

So, we disagree.


< Message edited by vincentML -- 2/3/2017 9:40:21 PM >


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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/4/2017 2:26:36 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Why is it only western nations that are pushed to take in these freaks? Why isn't Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country that is practically next to them or way closer to them being pushed to take them in? After all, a muslim nation is way better suited for these people compared to a western nation.

Pure stupidity.



The pure stupidity is all yours as always.

Lebanon has taken in more than 1 million refugees (with 4 million inhabitants)
Jordan has taken more than 600.000 refugees (with 6 million inhabitants)
Saudi-Arabia has taken about 700.000 refugees.

These refugees are not recorded by UNHCR since Saudi Arabia is no UNHCR member state.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/4/2017 2:57:33 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Why is it only western nations that are pushed to take in these freaks? Why isn't Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country that is practically next to them or way closer to them being pushed to take them in? After all, a muslim nation is way better suited for these people compared to a western nation.

Pure stupidity.



Not "stupidity" from the position of Saudi Arabia, for example. In fact, it's more like "enlightened self-interest".

Countries are funny things, when it comes to immigration. It must be always balanced or you run the risk of damaging an economy to the point where you're screwing your own population and, eventually not even helping the refugees you brought in to help. Jobs don't grow on trees and welfare has to be sustained, somehow.

Add to that the fact that the other Muslim countries knew what they'd be in for if Jihadi scumbags were allowed into the country that already has a Muslim base (and, potentially, some percentage that's right on the tipping point of radicalization). The disease would spread that much easier.

We, in the West, by-and-large are just "catching up" as to what is in that blood-soaked book to which 1.6 Billion Muslims adhere. Look at the "Sharia zones" in France, the UK, and now, even Minnesota.

On the whole, we should be grateful (to some extent) that the Jihadi scumbags had the most fertile petri dish for their disease to spread denied them.



Michael


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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/4/2017 6:15:46 AM   
jlf1961


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Vincent, if I may point out something that evidently you are not seeing, or by pure good fortune, you have not seen.

As of the last statistics available:

600,000 families with 1.35 million children are currently homeless in the US.
14.5 million Americans are living at or below the poverty line as of 2015 (this number does not include the residents of Indian Reservations under the authority of the Bureau of Indian Affairs)
We still have a 4.9% unemployment rate, with a 8.9% estimated rate of those underemployed (employed but earning less than 30% of previous employment.)

So, if I may ask, would it not be a better idea to solve these issues before bringing in refugees?

While I am not going to blame Obama solely for these numbers, since it is my opinion that the lack of the ability for both parties to work toward the goal of what's best for America, it is something that needs to be addressed first.

You know, charity begins at home and all that.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/4/2017 6:18:17 AM   
Musicmystery


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~FR~

Wow. It almost looks like international cooperation will be necessary to solve some of these problems.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/4/2017 7:26:11 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Why is it only western nations that are pushed to take in these freaks? Why isn't Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country that is practically next to them or way closer to them being pushed to take them in? After all, a muslim nation is way better suited for these people compared to a western nation.

Pure stupidity.



Not "stupidity" from the position of Saudi Arabia, for example. In fact, it's more like "enlightened self-interest".

Countries are funny things, when it comes to immigration. It must be always balanced or you run the risk of damaging an economy to the point where you're screwing your own population and, eventually not even helping the refugees you brought in to help. Jobs don't grow on trees and welfare has to be sustained, somehow.

Add to that the fact that the other Muslim countries knew what they'd be in for if Jihadi scumbags were allowed into the country that already has a Muslim base (and, potentially, some percentage that's right on the tipping point of radicalization). The disease would spread that much easier.

We, in the West, by-and-large are just "catching up" as to what is in that blood-soaked book to which 1.6 Billion Muslims adhere. Look at the "Sharia zones" in France, the UK, and now, even Minnesota.

On the whole, we should be grateful (to some extent) that the Jihadi scumbags had the most fertile petri dish for their disease to spread denied them.



Michael



And catching up we are. I am personally seeing signs of this, Facebook posts and such are spreading the facts though the hysterical unthinking useful idiots rioting in favor of those whose book says to terrorize and enslave everyone they don't kill, and murder gays, and treat women like dogs, may be something of a counterbalance to the awakening

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/6/2017 8:45:25 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/politics/australia-us-refugee-deal-turnbull-trump/index.html?sr=fbcnni020217australia-us-refugee-deal-turnbull-trump0132PMVODtopLink&linkId=34043798
It's all very simple.

These refugees are fucking boat people. They come to Australia in rickety boats by paying the fucking Indonesians $35,000 each.

Poor people can't afford $35k for transportation. So these so-called refugees are either financed by terrorism or they're part of the drug trade.

Basically, they're trying to queue-jump the asylum process by attempting to land on one of Australia's many island territories.

Accepting them would open the doors to a floodgate of similar undesirables.

Make no mistake, these people are the scum of the earth and letting them in would provide Islamic terrorists with a direct route into the Australian heartland.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/6/2017 9:03:29 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Why is everyone up in arms that Trump is not happy about it instead of being angry with Australia for not taking them in?

I still question why the hell did Australia bother convincing US to take them, when Canada is openly saying ALL Refugees are welcome! Why aren't they giving it to their sister country Canada!

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 2:44:50 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Why is it only western nations that are pushed to take in these freaks? Why isn't Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country that is practically next to them or way closer to them being pushed to take them in? After all, a muslim nation is way better suited for these people compared to a western nation.

Pure stupidity.



Why is everyone up in arms that Trump is not happy about it instead of being angry with Australia for not taking them in?



Because they don't actually give a shit about the refugees. they are just using them to push a political agenda and make the other side look bad.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 5:06:17 AM   
blnymph


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Could it be because there are such things as international treaties ... and a treaty being binding after been negotiated, signed, ratified ...

and some stiill don't get that in their simple minds ...?

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 7:16:21 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Why is everyone up in arms that Trump is not happy about it instead of being angry with Australia for not taking them in?
The issue is Trump's astonishingly poor temperament and total lack of statecraft.

Trump is incompetent. It's that simple. He says whatever comes into his head and is childishly simple to manipulate. Those are terrifying attributes in a President of the United States.

He'll be impeached. He must be. The risk to the nation is far too great, so it's only a matter of time.


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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 8:11:34 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Vincent, if I may point out something that evidently you are not seeing, or by pure good fortune, you have not seen.

As of the last statistics available:

600,000 families with 1.35 million children are currently homeless in the US.
14.5 million Americans are living at or below the poverty line as of 2015 (this number does not include the residents of Indian Reservations under the authority of the Bureau of Indian Affairs)
We still have a 4.9% unemployment rate, with a 8.9% estimated rate of those underemployed (employed but earning less than 30% of previous employment.)

So, if I may ask, would it not be a better idea to solve these issues before bringing in refugees?

While I am not going to blame Obama solely for these numbers, since it is my opinion that the lack of the ability for both parties to work toward the goal of what's best for America, it is something that needs to be addressed first.

You know, charity begins at home and all that.

Jeff!!

Where to begin?

The homeless and wretchedly poor have been with us since the establishment of British colonies in Virginia in the early 17th Century. The British openly proclaimed a policy of dumping their criminals, mentally ill, and desperately poor "waste people" onto the shores of the new world. Rather than accept indentured servitude the poor escaped southward into North Carolina and became squatters in the Dismal Swamp. There are books to be read about the migration of squatters and "crackers" into the western wilderness of the colonies. But today's homeless are not escaping; they are rejected for one reason or another. England had laws that put vagrants into stocks in the public square or branded them with a V or in some cases hung them until they choked to death. We do not have such laws today but some of that blame-the-victim attitude persists.

Causes of homelessness in the United States include lack of affordable housing, divorce, lawful eviction, negative cash flow, post traumatic stress disorder, foreclosure, fire, natural disasters (hurricane, earthquake, or flood), mental illness, physical disability, no family, substance abuse, lack of needed services, no unearned income (such as pension, Social Security, stock dividends, reverse mortgage, or annuity), poverty (no net worth), gambling, unemployment, and low-paying jobs. Homelessness in the United States affects many segments of the population, including families, children, domestic violence victims, ex-convicts, veterans, the aged, and others. See the Wiki article.

Lyndon Johnson's "War on Poverty" never got funded because of Vietnam War expenditures. In FY 2016 however the Federal budget allocated $14.9B in grants to school districts and $2.25B to the Department of Housing and Urban Renewal to assist the homeless.

Seventeen Billion dollars annually may not be a sufficient level of aid. I don't know. But you cannot seriously suggest the problem of homelessness is ignored and I cannot accept that taking in refugees causes a serious dent in our concern for the homeless.

We disagree.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 10:07:49 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Was that a CNN article? It was utter shite and bereft of the meat - and what did trumps twitter account say about…..he labelled ~1000 as thousand of terrorists come to rape Americashire ugly mutt women and bomb/shoot/go cannibal on your people…..and his facts behind this are nothing….lies and fibbery do not count.

US-Australia refugee deal: Trump in 'worst call' with Turnbull http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-38837263

That aside why can’t Australia take them – fuked if I know it’s not a big number. They hold these people escaping war, famine, rape, torture, and they hold them on two islands as animals.


Now, 1492 and 1818 or was that Antarctica....1770 apparently over looking the indigenous people dark savages 50, 000-100, 000 years

Americashire is lost but shame on Australia



< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 2/7/2017 10:09:49 AM >

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 11:58:27 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Awareness



These refugees are fucking boat people. They come to Australia in rickety boats by paying the fucking Indonesians $35,000 each.



Sounds like more of your typically unsubstantiated bullshit. Have you a cite for that number or did it come out of your ass like your breakfast?

Poor people can't afford $35k for transportation. So these so-called refugees are either financed by terrorism or they're part of the drug trade.

Basically, they're trying to queue-jump the asylum process by attempting to land on one of Australia's many island territories.

Or, as usual, you are making shit up again.

Accepting them would open the doors to a floodgate of similar undesirables.

Since you have not met even one of them how do you know that they are undesirable???or is just the color of their skin that you find undesirable?

Make no mistake, these people are the scum of the earth and letting them in would provide Islamic terrorists with a direct route into the Australian heartland.


Please pay attention dumbass...they are scheduled to come to amerika not oz.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 12:01:01 PM   
thompsonx


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The issue is Trump's astonishingly poor temperament and total lack of statecraft.

Trump is incompetent. It's that simple. He says whatever comes into his head and is childishly simple to manipulate. Those are terrifying attributes in a President of the United States.

They are not overly pleasent atributes of yourself either but we seem to be stuck with youi



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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 12:04:48 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Kirata
Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia?[/color]

Shhhhhhh

K.


Perhaps because amerika gave it's word that we would take them. Those who have numerous bankruptsies (failure to honor your word vis a vis ones debts) should not have any ethical qualms about reniging on "amerika's" promise.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 12:12:49 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75



And also, why America? Why not Canada!


Because amerika gave her word. Now we all realize that you lie when the truth is a better story simply so you can stay in practice. Not everyone is a phoquing liar like you. Not everyone is as ethically corrupt as you. Some people actually say what they mean and mean what they say
. Unlike you some people are not pathalogical liars who will say what ever is convenient and then do as they please. There is a word for that sort of person. They aree called punkassmotherfuckers.


I agree with Trump it was a dumb deal. I said it was dumb before Trump said it was dumb.

Perhaps he will say that letting obese,hairy legged chinese women into idaho is a dumb idea and send their punk asses back to that third world shithole called singapore.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/7/2017 12:22:55 PM >

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 12:20:32 PM   
thompsonx


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Vincent

What is your solution? We shouldn't be held responsible for their fuck ups. They fucked up their societies, bad luck, don't wreck ours too.

How do you make the leap of "logic" that those fleeing a "fucked up society" were the cause of it?
Second point dumbass...unless you are lying about living in oz they are not going there, they are scheduled to come to amerika...unless dumb don and the deplorables follows suit and renigs on yet another "solemn" treaty.
Yup amerika has a long and sordid history of reniging on our word...it truely is embarassing as hell.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 1:25:13 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: respectmen

Vincent

What is your solution? We shouldn't be held responsible for their fuck ups. They fucked up their societies, bad luck, don't wreck ours too.

How do you make the leap of "logic" that those fleeing a "fucked up society" were the cause of it?
Second point dumbass...unless you are lying about living in oz they are not going there, they are scheduled to come to amerika...unless dumb don and the deplorables follows suit and renigs on yet another "solemn" treaty.
Yup amerika has a long and sordid history of reniging on our word...it truely is embarassing as hell.



Feel free to leave at any time.

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RE: Why doesn't Australia just let them live in Australia? - 2/7/2017 1:43:40 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Vincent

What is your solution? We shouldn't be held responsible for their fuck ups. They fucked up their societies, bad luck, don't wreck ours too.

I don't claim to have a solution, rm.

In high school we learned about the history of kings and queens, generals and explorers, and wars and treaties. But, our schools remained silent on the horrific world history of refugees, which is accessible here.

As Thompson remarked above refugees are not responsible for the conditions from which they flee. They did not fuck up their societies and they will not fuck up yours. The term refugee derives from the definition "shelter or protection from danger or distress", If it is a responsibility it is a humanitarian responsibility. Of the 40 million people killed by belligerents since 1945 ninety percent have been civilians. That is why there have been mass movements of refugees seeking safety and asylum these past 70 years.

The history of refugees is unremittingly cruel but surely the cruelest thing to be found in the linked article is this:

Of the 5.7 million Soviet prisoners of war captured by the Germans, 3.5 million had died while in German captivity by the end of the war.[37][38] The survivors on their return to the USSR were treated as traitors (see Order No. 270).[39][40] Over 1.5 million surviving Red Army soldiers imprisoned by the Nazis were sent to the Gulag.[41][42]

In 2014 there were 14,385,300 refugees and 32,274,600 internal displaced persons registered with the United Nation.

And your country refuses to take 1200 of them?

Pathetic.





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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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