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President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/3/2017 5:32:53 PM   
BoscoX


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Status: offline 		Foreigners have no rights under our constitution

Federal judge in Mass. won’t extend order halting Trump immigration ban

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/02/03/fight-over-trump-travel-ban-resumes-boston-court/bqLjtMUAV5A0Oy09ANxTmN/story.html

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/3/2017 5:44:38 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Bush-appointed judge halts Trump travel ban nationwide
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/317884-washington-state-judge-halts-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide

A federal judge in Seattle issued a temporary nationwide restraining order Friday stopping President Trump's executive order banning citizens of seven countries from entering the United States.

Judge James Robart, who was appointed by former President George Bush in 2003, ruled the executive order would be stopped nationwide, effective immediately.

“The Constitution prevailed today,” Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson said in a statement after the ruling. “No one is above the law — not even the President.”

"It's our president's duty to honor this ruling and I'll make sure he does," Ferguson added.

The ruling, made at the request of Washington and Minnesota, is the broadest to date against Trump's executive order.

Ferguson, a Democrat, filed the lawsuit three days after Trump signed the executive order. The suit argued that the travel ban targets Muslims and violates constitutional rights of immigrants and their families.

In a phone interview with CNN Friday evening, Ferguson said he "expected win, lose or draw" that the case would move "fairly quickly through, up to the Ninth Circuit" Court of Appeals "just because of the magnitude of the executive order."

He said he anticipates there will be an appeal "relatively soon," but noted he feels "confident that we'll prevail."

Lawyers for the government had argued the states lacked standing to sue, according to the Seattle Times, and that the order was within Trump's executive powers.

But the judge rejected that argument, saying the states had already suffered harm from the travel ban. He also said the lawsuit challenging the legality of the order has a good chance of succeeding.

More than 50 lawsuits have been filed against the order so far, with federal judges issuing temporary injunctions in several states to stop the deportations of people impacted by it.

But Robart is the first judge to issue a nationwide injunction, raising the stakes and potentially putting the case on a fast track to the Supreme Court.

The number of people who have been affected by Trump's order remains a point of contention.

During a court hearing in Virginia Friday, a lawyer with the Justice Department said more than 100,000 visas had been revoked under Trump's order, despite the temporary nature of the ban.

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/3/2017 7:29:12 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Foreigners have no rights under our constitution

Federal judge in Mass. won’t extend order halting Trump immigration ban

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/02/03/fight-over-trump-travel-ban-resumes-boston-court/bqLjtMUAV5A0Oy09ANxTmN/story.html

not what was said, they do have rights, and no federal judge can overturn the surpreme courts ruling that it is so.
Now the circuit split will go to appeal, and in the meantime, life goes on, there will be an appeal of both, and it might go to the SCOTUS or they may turn it down. there probably is only the can trump properly ban people from those countries. I think that answer how ever it comes will be yes. The shit he pulled at the airports he is clearly fucked on, and the nutsuckers would be retards to appeal it. But of course they are retards. That is stare decisis and the argument would be post hoc, and immediately out the door. Whether he can discriminate by religion as in 5b, that is stare decisis as well and that argument would be post hoc and out the door. So they are left with the symbolic can the president by exectuive order ban people from those countries for 120 days or is it executive overreach that goes 50/50 see AS v US, where the answer is yes. and the case of Obama recently where the answer was no.

So the actual score is closer to Nutsuckers maybe one 1, constitution about 4

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/3/2017 7:30:48 PM >

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/3/2017 7:56:13 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I came up with the solution for all of this, today.

We don't want Jihadi scumbags getting into this country. I think we can all agree on that, yes?

Okay. President Trump's temporary ban on immigration/visas based upon countries that President Dumbo Ears identified has been characterized by some as a "ban on Muslims". One of the grounds for this Washington judge's injunction is he says that the EO was discriminatory. We're agreed there, yes? Thank you for coming along with me.

Well, it's really simple: we don't ban people coming from certain countries. We don't "ban Muslims". Starting 6 FEB, 2017, we ban all travel from anywhere in the world for anyone that is not a U.S. citizen, legal resident alien, or holding one of the many forms of visas that have already been issued as of that date.

Now, the first moans and gnashing of teeth will be: What about tourism? Yep. That's gonna take a hit, but that very fact will provide incentive for this ban to be as short as possible.

We re-vamp our vetting process. Then, we throw open the doors, utilizing our new, extreme vetting.

No "discrimination". No alleged "religious test". America safer. Done and dusted.

Look, we're gonna keep this country as safe as we possibly can. We don't mind Dimocrats, coming along for the ride, but if they're going to continue their obstructionist ways, they're gonna have to sit in the back.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/3/2017 8:17:25 PM >

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/3/2017 11:39:50 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I came up with the solution for all of this, today.

We don't want Jihadi scumbags getting into this country. I think we can all agree on that, yes?

Okay. President Trump's temporary ban on immigration/visas based upon countries that President Dumbo Ears identified has been characterized by some as a "ban on Muslims". One of the grounds for this Washington judge's injunction is he says that the EO was discriminatory. We're agreed there, yes? Thank you for coming along with me.

Well, it's really simple: we don't ban people coming from certain countries. We don't "ban Muslims". Starting 6 FEB, 2017, we ban all travel from anywhere in the world for anyone that is not a U.S. citizen, legal resident alien, or holding one of the many forms of visas that have already been issued as of that date.

Now, the first moans and gnashing of teeth will be: What about tourism? Yep. That's gonna take a hit, but that very fact will provide incentive for this ban to be as short as possible.

We re-vamp our vetting process. Then, we throw open the doors, utilizing our new, extreme vetting.

No "discrimination". No alleged "religious test". America safer. Done and dusted.

Look, we're gonna keep this country as safe as we possibly can. We don't mind Dimocrats, coming along for the ride, but if they're going to continue their obstructionist ways, they're gonna have to sit in the back.



Michael

Sounds plausible as a solution that could pass muster but I just read that Trump ordered immigration to pull 100,000 visas for those coming into Va.

I am sure that will soon be in court too...far too sweeping given that the visas were already approved.

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 2:42:51 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Sounds plausible as a solution that could pass muster but I just read that Trump ordered immigration to pull 100,000 visas for those coming into Va.

I am sure that will soon be in court too...far too sweeping given that the visas were already approved.



Yeah, I guess I should have been specific, but certainly, a pause in all issuance of visas would come first (and, if handled correctly, could possibly go unnoticed long enough to be able to chose a "hard date" for implementation of the "lock down" of the country).

Actually, I was assuming (and I guess I could be wrong) that the president has the authority to halt all visas from being issued at his discretion, as long as it was done across the board?

That and, to be fair to me, I did mention visas in the post you quoted:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr



... Well, it's really simple: we don't ban people coming from certain countries. We don't "ban Muslims". Starting 6 FEB, 2017, we ban all travel from anywhere in the world for anyone that is not a U.S. citizen, legal resident alien, or holding one of the many forms of visas that have already been issued as of that date.





Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/4/2017 3:24:35 AM >

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 4:56:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So, we'll be safe from outside people, but our economy takes a permanent nose dive.

All for a danger that's frankly hypothetical and primarily hysterical xenophobia.







< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/4/2017 5:29:05 AM >

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 5:18:31 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I came up with the solution for all of this, today.

We don't want Jihadi scumbags getting into this country. I think we can all agree on that, yes?

Okay. President Trump's temporary ban on immigration/visas based upon countries that President Dumbo Ears identified has been characterized by some as a "ban on Muslims". One of the grounds for this Washington judge's injunction is he says that the EO was discriminatory. We're agreed there, yes? Thank you for coming along with me.

Well, it's really simple: we don't ban people coming from certain countries. We don't "ban Muslims". Starting 6 FEB, 2017, we ban all travel from anywhere in the world for anyone that is not a U.S. citizen, legal resident alien, or holding one of the many forms of visas that have already been issued as of that date.

Now, the first moans and gnashing of teeth will be: What about tourism? Yep. That's gonna take a hit, but that very fact will provide incentive for this ban to be as short as possible.

We re-vamp our vetting process. Then, we throw open the doors, utilizing our new, extreme vetting.

No "discrimination". No alleged "religious test". America safer. Done and dusted.

Look, we're gonna keep this country as safe as we possibly can. We don't mind Dimocrats, coming along for the ride, but if they're going to continue their obstructionist ways, they're gonna have to sit in the back.



Michael

You would have to change the law to do that. clearly that is against the law period, so mirable dictu, you are wrong, you dont know much about anything do you?

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 5:41:02 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So, we'll be safe from outside people, but our economy takes a permanent nose dive.

All for a danger that's frankly hypothetical and primarily hysterical xenophobia.



I wonder if the people in the WTC on the morning of 11 SEP. '01 would agree with your assessment of the imaginary danger?

The 14 in San Bernardino?

The Army base in Texas?

The recruiting station in Tennessee?

The mall in Minnesota?

The pulse night club in Florida?

I would hope that you get the point. It's not an imaginary threat. It's a real one. Acting against citizens is a little tougher because ... well ... they're citizens, but we can prevent the people who may be helping to radicalize, arm, and finance them from spreading their disease, face-to-face.

Anyway, I appreciate your take that nothing is acceptable, when dealing with a group of people who HAVE done us harm and who declared war on us, a long time ago.

Way to protect the values that you claim to hold and wish upon our country.



Michael

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 5:44:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So, we'll be safe from outside people, but our economy takes a permanent nose dive.

All for a danger that's frankly hypothetical and primarily hysterical xenophobia.



I wonder if the people in the WTC on the morning of 11 SEP. '01 would agree with your assessment of the imaginary danger?

The 14 in San Bernardino?

The Army base in Texas?

The recruiting station in Tennessee?

The mall in Minnesota?

The pulse night club in Florida?

I would hope that you get the point. It's not an imaginary threat. It's a real one. Acting against citizens is a little tougher because ... well ... they're citizens, but we can prevent the people who may be helping to radicalize, arm, and finance them from spreading their disease, face-to-face.

Anyway, I appreciate your take that nothing is acceptable, when dealing with a group of people who HAVE done us harm and who declared war on us, a long time ago.

Way to protect the values that you claim to hold and wish upon our country.



Michael

I think they would, I think they would be saying its Saudi Arabia Stupid.

#IDIEDATBOWLINGGREEN

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 5:54:08 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
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Status: offline 		the short of it seems to be, the collectivists value people being able to come here from outside the country more than they value the safety of the ones already here.


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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 6:00:11 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So, we'll be safe from outside people, but our economy takes a permanent nose dive.

All for a danger that's frankly hypothetical and primarily hysterical xenophobia.



I wonder if the people in the WTC on the morning of 11 SEP. '01 would agree with your assessment of the imaginary danger?

The 14 in San Bernardino?

The Army base in Texas?

The recruiting station in Tennessee?

The mall in Minnesota?

The pulse night club in Florida?

I would hope that you get the point. It's not an imaginary threat. It's a real one. Acting against citizens is a little tougher because ... well ... they're citizens, but we can prevent the people who may be helping to radicalize, arm, and finance them from spreading their disease, face-to-face.

Anyway, I appreciate your take that nothing is acceptable, when dealing with a group of people who HAVE done us harm and who declared war on us, a long time ago.

Way to protect the values that you claim to hold and wish upon our country.



Michael

...none of whom are from the countries Trump named.

What of all the violence by citizens? Are you banning citizens next?

Fuck you on "values I claim to hold." Who do you think you are? What a pompous ass.

Point is -- you remember the day when you could actually argue points? -- this hypothetical "safety" you propose will come with an extremely high price tag.

You think people are talking about jobs and costs now?

You have no concept of consequences.

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 6:01:18 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the short of it seems to be, the collectivists value people being able to come here from outside the country more than they value the safety of the ones already here.



Keep telling yourself bullshit like this. It will help you prevent considering anything real.

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 6:26:33 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

Those who would give up essential Industry, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Tourists nor Safety.



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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 6:56:38 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...none of whom are from the countries Trump named.


Here's another knuckledragger trying to claim that we could never have issues with anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia

These people are incapable of critical thinking. They just repeat the talking points they are handed

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 7:06:55 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		"Alternative facts" again.

"Nuh-uh!"

Silly putz.

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 11:46:17 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline



Fuck me? That's a witty comeback as opposed to my presenting an argument whether you value it or not?

Well, I'll try one more time and then, it's you that can fuck yourself (and raise your own bastards)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...none of whom are from the countries Trump named.



If you can show me where I made that claim, I'll give you a nickle. What I proposed was a total lock-down from ALL countries and I mentioned citizens and green card holders and visa holders so ... fuck you, I guess?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What of all the violence by citizens? Are you banning citizens next?



Actually, lawlessness/violence by citizens should be punished, whether they're protesting President Trump or the she-cunt. Here's a clue: It's easier to deal with the violent citizens already here, if we aren't importing new ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Fuck you on "values I claim to hold." Who do you think you are? What a pompous ass.



You mean like: Here

Not a pompous ass, at all. You talk about "American values", pretty frequently. So ... Let's try this:

Is protecting American citizens an "American value"?

Is being a pluralist nation an "American value"?

Should gay people be allowed to be on about their business without worrying about getting shot up (or worse) strictly because of where they chose to stick their dick or would that be antithetical to "American values"

I'm assuming you're not a proponent of a "religious test"? Yes? That wouldn't be an American value? Wait until you get a load of Jihadi Jonny and his Sharia Law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Point is -- you remember the day when you could actually argue points?

Point is: I've never seen you go more than a few weeks, trying to match wits with someone where it didn't devolve into "fuck you" or "You've got anger issues" or "WTF is wrong with you?" Something to think about there, bucko.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

-- this hypothetical "safety" you propose will come with an extremely high price tag.



I guess that depends upon how high (or low) a value you place on human life. I seem to remember some kind of "American value" that tells us that amongst our inalienable rights is: " ... life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." So, where do American lives rank on that list? After Jihadi scumbags decide that a mother, walking in a mall with her children isn't fit to live because she hasn't donned the hijab?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You think people are talking about jobs and costs now?

You have no concept of consequences.


I look forward to you, educating me, without resorting to ad hominem and and bullshit innuendo.



Michael

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 12:03:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So sayith the guy who is still steaming about a post made a decade ago. Model of balance, you are.

And yep. When the "argument" is "the values you claim to hold" with no facts but a dismissive fear, fuck you. That's just bullshit, no matter how you dance around it.

Try avoiding the ad hominem yourself. Or is that beam in your eye blinding you?

The rest is just you clinging to a straw man. "The Muslims are coming for us!" sure takes the logic and options out of a lot of approaches -- but only IF your hysterical xenophobia is accurate, and there's just no proof of that (and plenty of peaceful evidence to the contrary) beyond "Oh! This guy did this one! So they're coming for us!" instead of the same caution and care and law we apply to violation and threats daily.

If just one human life is worth sacrificing our liberty for, then we should never, ever, go to war, because someone might lose a life. We should just give up our liberties, right?

Come on. Ridiculous position, one based on nothing but irrational fear.

Aren't conservatives always whining that liberals are snowflakes wanting a perfectly safe world? This argument strong resembles that snowflake charge.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/4/2017 12:07:50 PM >

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RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 4:52:28 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2351
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...none of whom are from the countries Trump named.


Here's another knuckledragger trying to claim that we could never have issues with anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia

These people are incapable of critical thinking. They just repeat the talking points they are handed


He didn't claim that we could NEVER have issues with anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia. Did you read his post?

Of course we could have issues with people from ANY of those countries. We could have issues with people from the USA! (in fact we have!). We could have issues with people from Ireland.

The way to deal with countries of concern, is to screen people thoroughly. (Not ban entire nationalities)


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: President Trump 1 Alt Left ACLU 0 - 2/4/2017 5:43:49 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11243
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...none of whom are from the countries Trump named.


Here's another knuckledragger trying to claim that we could never have issues with anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia

These people are incapable of critical thinking. They just repeat the talking points they are handed


He didn't claim that we could NEVER have issues with anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia. Did you read his post?

Of course we could have issues with people from ANY of those countries. We could have issues with people from the USA! (in fact we have!). We could have issues with people from Ireland.

The way to deal with countries of concern, is to screen people thoroughly. (Not ban entire nationalities)




It's the false narrative that's so laughable

A person would have to be crazy to expect trouble from anyone from Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, or Somalia



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