Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (Full Version)

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BoscoX -> Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 3:30:05 PM)

quote:

Federal agents conduct sweeping immigration enforcement raids in at least 6 states

By Abigail Hauslohner, Lisa Rein and Sandhya Somashekhar February 10 at 4:04 PM
U.S. immigration authorities launched a series of raids, traffic stops and checkpoints in at least half a dozen states across the country on Thursday and Friday, sweeping up an unknown number of undocumented immigrants, immigration lawyers and advocates said.

The raids, which appeared to target scores of undocumented immigrants, including those without criminal records, mark the first largescale episode of immigration enforcement inside the United States since President Trump’s Jan. 26 order to crack down on the estimated 11 million immigrants living here illegally.

It also appeared to signal a departure from the Obama administration’s prioritized immigration enforcement against criminals. Trump has pledged to deport up to 3 million undocumented immigrants with criminal records.

[For years, immigration authorities gave this Arizona mother a pass. Now she has been deported.]

Word of the raids quickly circulated among immigrants, activists and on social media, creating such widespread panic in immigrant communities that a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said the department had decided to take the unprecedented step of confirming some details of the raids while the raids were ongoing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/federal-agents-conduct-sweeping-immigration-enforcement-raids-in-at-least-6-states/2017/02/10/4b9f443a-efc8-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.7d8fa822cb82#comments



"If you kick every Latino out of this country, then who is going to be cleaning your toilet, Donald Trump?" - Kelly Osbourne, The View




mnottertail -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 3:46:42 PM)

How many of the criminal employers were imprisoned? How many companies were siezed?




Lucylastic -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 4:09:51 PM)

Story from back in december about Eric Trumps foreign workers hiring for his vineyard

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/22/news/companies/trump-foreign-workers/


Donald Trump's vineyard is looking to hire foreign workers to start just days after he's sworn in as president.
In a filing with the U.S. Department of Labor, the Charlottesville, Virginia winery says it will need six workers to work six days a week as farmworkers and laborers. The pay is $10.72 an hour, and the temporary jobs are expected to run from Jan. 31 to June 30.

The vineyard is part of the Trump Winery, which has a hotel and tasting room that are open to the public. The winery, which is run by Trump's son Eric, did not respond to a request for comment about its use of foreign workers. Neither did the Trump transition team.


Trump has vowed repeatedly to clamp down on immigration and make jobs available for Americans. But Trump's various businesses have been granted approval to hire at least 1,256 foreign guest workers over the last 15 years, according to a CNN analysis of Labor Department filings. Since the start of Trump's campaign in June 2015, companies he owns have requested at least 190 foreign visa workers, according to Department of Labor data. The workers were hired on a variety of different U.S. visa programs.

Most of the requests for foreign workers were for the Mar-a-Lago Club, Trump's exclusive crown jewel property that is both a resort and sports club, nestled on the shores of Palm Beach. In the past 10 years, 849 foreign guest workers were approved to work at the resort, mostly as servers, cooks, housekeepers or similar positions.

Trump has said publicly that he has turned to foreign workers when his businesses cannot find Americans to take the jobs he is looking to fill. Indeed, the Department of Labor requires proof that an employer seeking to import workers tried but failed to attract qualified U.S. workers.


"You cannot get help during the season. The season goes from like October to March. It's almost impossible to get help," Trump said during the campaign, when asked why Mar-a-Lago hired foreign guest workers. "And part of the reason you can't get American people is they want full time jobs."

Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law.


then there is the fox take on it
http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2016/12/23/trump-winery-under-fire-after-applying-for-visas-seeking-foreign-workers.html




kdsub -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 4:21:29 PM)

But would it not be cheaper...less taxpayers money...to arrest and imprison those employers who hire illegal workers? Without jobs they would go home and we would not need to build a wall for billions.

Butch




BoscoX -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 5:00:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Story from back in december about Eric Trumps foreign workers hiring for his vineyard

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/22/news/companies/trump-foreign-workers/


Donald Trump's vineyard is looking to hire foreign workers to start just days after he's sworn in as president.
In a filing with the U.S. Department of Labor, the Charlottesville, Virginia winery says it will need six workers to work six days a week as farmworkers and laborers. The pay is $10.72 an hour, and the temporary jobs are expected to run from Jan. 31 to June 30.

The vineyard is part of the Trump Winery, which has a hotel and tasting room that are open to the public. The winery, which is run by Trump's son Eric, did not respond to a request for comment about its use of foreign workers. Neither did the Trump transition team.


Trump has vowed repeatedly to clamp down on immigration and make jobs available for Americans. But Trump's various businesses have been granted approval to hire at least 1,256 foreign guest workers over the last 15 years, according to a CNN analysis of Labor Department filings. Since the start of Trump's campaign in June 2015, companies he owns have requested at least 190 foreign visa workers, according to Department of Labor data. The workers were hired on a variety of different U.S. visa programs.

Most of the requests for foreign workers were for the Mar-a-Lago Club, Trump's exclusive crown jewel property that is both a resort and sports club, nestled on the shores of Palm Beach. In the past 10 years, 849 foreign guest workers were approved to work at the resort, mostly as servers, cooks, housekeepers or similar positions.

Trump has said publicly that he has turned to foreign workers when his businesses cannot find Americans to take the jobs he is looking to fill. Indeed, the Department of Labor requires proof that an employer seeking to import workers tried but failed to attract qualified U.S. workers.


"You cannot get help during the season. The season goes from like October to March. It's almost impossible to get help," Trump said during the campaign, when asked why Mar-a-Lago hired foreign guest workers. "And part of the reason you can't get American people is they want full time jobs."

Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law.


then there is the fox take on it
http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2016/12/23/trump-winery-under-fire-after-applying-for-visas-seeking-foreign-workers.html



Why do alt left radicals foolishly demand that Republican employers play by different rules than everyone else. Commit to trade practices that would ruin their businesses

Rhetorical question

Fuck that. What is remarkable is that President Trump AS AN EMPLOYER recognizes the need to control immigration, and is keeping to his campaign promises.




bounty44 -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 5:01:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But would it not be cheaper...less taxpayers money...to arrest and imprison those employers who hire illegal workers? Without jobs they would go home and we would not need to build a wall for billions.

Butch


great, do the math and compare the numbers. lets use ten years as time period.

also please address all the employee/employer arrangements that are "off the books" so to speak.

and the illegals who come here but don't work and nevertheless use resources.

and the illegals who come and make their living from crime.

address how imprisoning employers stops drugs from coming over?

and the anchor baby phenomenon?

that said, its hard to take any liberal seriously when they complain about the cost of something when that "something" is something they inherently disagree with on principle, as opposed to cost.





Lucylastic -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 5:07:25 PM)

LOL bosco, you incompetent idiot, The trump knows how to make money off undocumented peoples lives, that is true
otherwise, the rest is your usual bullshit




kdsub -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 5:47:12 PM)

Without jobs they will have no reason or the financial ability to stay... even with children. If you make a penalty 20 years without parole, confiscation of assets, and stick to it not many employers will take the chance... would you?

Butch




mnottertail -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 6:03:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But would it not be cheaper...less taxpayers money...to arrest and imprison those employers who hire illegal workers? Without jobs they would go home and we would not need to build a wall for billions.

Butch


great, do the math and compare the numbers. lets use ten years as time period.

also please address all the employee/employer arrangements that are "off the books" so to speak.

and the illegals who come here but don't work and nevertheless use resources.

and the illegals who come and make their living from crime.

address how imprisoning employers stops drugs from coming over?

and the anchor baby phenomenon?

that said, its hard to take any liberal seriously when they complain about the cost of something when that "something" is something they inherently disagree with on principle, as opposed to cost.



show the cost of welfare to illegal aliens
show the loss to the economy by jobs lost and welfare payments to corporations and their employees
show the lost revenue from corporate welfare
show that the ins is free for the last 10 years.
show that anchor babies could not be legislated out of existance by nutsuckers over the years.
show us the cost of illegal welfare recipeints
show us how leaving the employers (who are criminals under the law) are preventing drugs from coming in this country by hiring illegal aliens (which is only a civil violation)
demonstrate for us how nutsuckers felchgobbling and not doing shit about this and running after civil violators with billions of us dollars is both cheaper and more efficient.





bounty44 -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 7:07:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Without jobs they will have no reason or the financial ability to stay... even with children. If you make a penalty 20 years without parole, confiscation of assets, and stick to it not many employers will take the chance... would you?

Butch


you are putting forth that your idea might be cheaper. I suggested doing the math...

you said the wall will cost billions. so how much will it cost to enforce the laws you desire and to imprison people?

you simply cant say "surely itd be cheaper?" without any idea of the cost of the alternative.

and all the other necessary questions you ignored that aren't fixed by your idea but that are by a wall.




kdsub -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 7:24:26 PM)

We already do enforce the laws... but the penalties are not prohibitive. As soon as a few employers are prosecuted and incarcerated for 20 years illegal employment will practically stop overnight. I don't see a roofer taking the chance of spending 20 years in prison and loosing everything he owns just to save a few dollars per hour wage.

Butch




tamaka -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 7:27:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We already do enforce the laws... but the penalties are not prohibitive. As soon as a few employers are prosecuted and incarcerated for 20 years illegal employment will practically stop overnight. I don't see a roofer taking the chance of spending 20 years in prison and loosing everything he owns just to save a few dollars per hour wage.

Butch


I think alot of them have papers, fake ss #'s etc so there is no way to tell.




kdsub -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 7:47:29 PM)

Yes of course... but which would be cheaper...rounding up millions of illegals...feeding them housing them processing them transporting them... or arresting a few employers...giving them stiff sentences and scaring the hell out of the rest? Within a few months there will no longer be jobs for illegals... how will they buy food and housing? Nope they will high tail it for home at no cost to us.

Butch




Real0ne -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/10/2017 9:54:34 PM)

chasing after poor people is little minded when the top 1% is extorting and stealing from you by the trillions.

It would be far cheaper to run down a few elites.






bounty44 -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 12:22:43 AM)

there are currently ~2 million prisoners in the usa.

the overwhelming majority of them committed crimes knowing if they were caught, there'd be penalties, sometimes severe ones, yet they do it anyways. how many more are committing crimes yet haven't been caught yet.

if there are ~11 million illegals in the country, presumably it must take many hundreds of thousands into the millions or people/places to employ them. your premise, despite the case in the sentence above, is that a law will eradicate human nature just in this instance?

and that doesn't even count the "your honor, he showed me a social security card and a birth certificate" occurrences, the cottage production of which will likely increase. (I see now tamaka mentioned that)

so knowing that you cannot make a law and have bad behavior magically disappear, and including the inevitably above, again, how much does it cost to investigate, catch, charge, and incarcerate this new class of criminals?

and since the conversation's still going but this keeps not being addressed: criminalizing employers doesn't stop people from coming here for the purposes of crime and making their living that way.

it doesn't stop, or lessen the flow of drugs or weapons coming into the country.

it doesn't stop the anchor babies and then families being able to get government assistance based on that.

I don't disagree we'd do well to sour the milk for illegals, and conversely to work globally to sweeten the tea in their own countries, and while I would consider that an important step, I would also consider it just one of many that should be taken--a border wall included.

and I cannot help but think of the argument that "illegals do some jobs that americans wont"---so long as americans can get welfare and unemployment and other government goodies, then certain employees will be hard pressed to fill their ranks. so that whole system would need to be addressed also, which im all in favor of.




jlf1961 -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 1:05:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


I think alot of them have papers, fake ss #'s etc so there is no way to tell.




Actually, some years ago, back during the Clinton administration, three agencies discussed ways to deal with just this issue. At the time, the best idea was going from the paper ss card to a plastic one with a 3d bar code on the back.

It was then proposed to a joint subcommittee and actually got the approval of both Libs and cons, it just needed a bill to make it through congress to get it implemented.

By the time the bill got to the point where it would have been voted on, a 500 million dollar plan had so many riders attached to the bill that it had reached 34 Billion dollars in unrelated spending.

It died in congress never actually being voted on.

Then there was the universal ID card proposed right after 9/11 under the Bush administration.

The original idea was an ID card that was tied to your SS#, passport etc. but state issued. They even wanted to put a smart chip on it like some of the newer debit and credit cards.

Both sides went batshit crazy over that, everyone from the gun lobby to the libs (based on invasion of privacy) to conspiracy theorists on both sides, and oped's by religious leaders about the mark of the beast etc.

So, all that came out was a set of standards which set down exactly what was needed for getting a state driver's license or ID.

And the points about enforcement voiced by bounty are entirely accurate.

The wall will cost billions, to hire enough immigration investigators, staff more detention centers, etc would cost tens or billions.

And neither the left or the right will go for it.

Republican and Democrat elected office holders have been discovered to have hired at one time or another, illegal aliens. There have been a number of appointees for cabinet and agency heads from both sides to have been discovered to have hired illegals, not paid all the employer taxes on wages etc.

Which brings us to the key point.

It is good politics to run on immigration reform, building a wall or a fence, either amnesty or massive deportations. Bill did it, George did it, Obama did it, and now Trump.

I will bet you dollars to donuts that it ends up not happening, although personally, I am sick and tired of pressing 1 for English, going to the super market or a store and not being able to understand what the person at the register is saying because of a heavy accent, and paying school taxes to educate kids who are not here legally.

Personally I say fuck the wall, instead take all those land mines we have sitting in military warehouses and sew mine fields so thick along the border that a mouse cant walk across without stepping on one.

It works for north Korea to keep people in, so it holds true that the same system will keep people out.

And according to some, I am a member of the alt left.




WhoreMods -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 4:15:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes of course... but which would be cheaper...rounding up millions of illegals...feeding them housing them processing them transporting them... or arresting a few employers...giving them stiff sentences and scaring the hell out of the rest? Within a few months there will no longer be jobs for illegals... how will they buy food and housing? Nope they will high tail it for home at no cost to us.

Butch

On that level, I wonder if a case could be made that a business whose financial model is entirely dependent on an illegal immigrant labour force (there's plenty of them in Texas and Los Angeles, after all) is a criminal undertaking whose assets can be confiscated against legal costs?
That'd put some of these people off employing illegals, I suspect.




mnottertail -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 4:44:31 AM)

That case could be made, emplying illegals is a criminal enterprise, I think RICO would not be too far away.
Our law is that employing them is illegal in both criminal and civil while to be an illegal is only civil.

lock em up, fine them all, seize and peddle their businesses and all their assets.




WhoreMods -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 4:48:46 AM)

It'd certainly be more effective than just deporting a few illegals, because those'll keep sneaking into the country so long as the other crooked shitehawks are employing them. The only effective way to end a problem like this is by eliminating the demand for illegal labour.




Musicmystery -> RE: Employers May Have To Start Paying Fair Wages Again (2/11/2017 7:54:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But would it not be cheaper...less taxpayers money...to arrest and imprison those employers who hire illegal workers? Without jobs they would go home and we would not need to build a wall for billions.

Butch


great, do the math and compare the numbers. lets use ten years as time period.

also please address all the employee/employer arrangements that are "off the books" so to speak.

and the illegals who come here but don't work and nevertheless use resources.

and the illegals who come and make their living from crime.

address how imprisoning employers stops drugs from coming over?

and the anchor baby phenomenon?

that said, its hard to take any liberal seriously when they complain about the cost of something when that "something" is something they inherently disagree with on principle, as opposed to cost.



OK. You got reliable data on this? Care to share?

Or just more factless hysteria?




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