RE: Making America Great Again?

RE: Making America Great Again? (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 3:10:35 PM)
Forget about the tired and poor. Consider a J1 exchange visitor living and working in the USA researching cures for cancer as a POST DOC. Her father becomes ill and dies in Iran, and so she travels back to IRAN for the funeral services. On return to the USA - where she has a job, a car, an apartment, and relatives, friends and co workers -- she is barred from reentry and her J1 visa is summarily canceled. Needless to say this educated doctor is not a security threat to the USA. So, the ban, as enacted, is de-facto proof of the immigration illiteracy of the White House and its nationalistic advisors. -- On the plus side, Iranian nationals and leaders where impressed with US demonstrators opposed to the White House actions. Its a small silver lining, but opposing countries need to find common ground and ties to one another. Sometimes its the bonds between decent, caring people irrespective of their governments -- that forms this valuable connection.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 3:31:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Trump keeps talking about making America great again, making us safe and secure, building a wall to keep people out. But is that what will make America great? What ever happened to; “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Or; They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Or; Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! Patrick Henry It seems to me that a great America is less concerned with peace and safety and security and more about being the home of the brave and the land of the free. Is it really too much to ask for immigrants to come into the US legally? That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Trump's ban, however, turned away legal immigrants, including VISA holders and long-term green card holders. Citizens and people from friendly countries, like Canada, have been held up simply because they were Muslim. Simply reality, this is NOT a program to prevent illegal immigrants--it's an anti-Muslim policy. Trump's EO isn't about illegal immigration, though that means fuck all in this thread. Trump's EO you're complaining about isn't about the wall the OP is writing about. To your point, however, the EO was a blanket ban from 7 countries, all of them primarily Muslim, but not completely Muslim. It shouldn't have been executed the way it was, and shouldn't have applied - from the get got, not after the outcy - to the VISA holders, legal immigrants, and green-card holders. Canadian nationals (and any nationals from any country other than those 7 listed) shouldn't have been impacted, unless they are also nationals from one of the 7 listed countries. The EO was intended - from what I can tell - to give time to DHS to improve the current, or create a new vetting process for incoming nationals from those 7 countries.

bounty44 -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 3:33:14 PM)
23 dollars/hr is a yearly salary of 48k. the median salary in the usa is ~27k. the median household income is ~50k http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-do-americans-earn-what-is-the-average-us-income/ so here's an individual making 78% more than the median, and just a couple thousand short of the median household with the point being---I suspect given the above, there are plenty of people who would consider it a good paying job and would be happy to have it. the vast majority of the country is making less. and I think we just got some more insight into the character of the troll...

mnottertail -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 4:10:41 PM)
http://1-million-dollar-blog.com/average-monthly-salary-for-72-countries-in-the-world/ Look at Norway, and they have 100% education and 100% healthcare, plus a few other bennies. Seems like we are behind many nations in everything. Looke like we have a lot of insight into the lack of character and factless felchgobbling propaganda of the nutsuckers as they sell us out.

tamaka -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 4:12:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 23 dollars/hr is a yearly salary of 48k. the median salary in the usa is ~27k. the median household income is ~50k http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-do-americans-earn-what-is-the-average-us-income/ so here's an individual making 78% more than the median, and just a couple thousand short of the median household with the point being---I suspect given the above, there are plenty of people who would consider it a good paying job and would be happy to have it. the vast majority of the country is making less. and I think we just got some more insight into the character of the troll... Yeah... he's a bs artist.

bounty44 -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 4:21:42 PM)
i demur on the "artist" part

DesideriScuri -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 6:55:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Is it really too much to ask for immigrants to come into the US legally? That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Yes it is too much.. US immigration rules/law makes it almost impossible (unless you marry or have a family sponsor).. and its actually costing you Americans jobs.. but most of y'all are too stupid to realize that.. Seriously? It's too much to ask that people immigrate legally?!? I absolutely do believe immigration law and the legal process needs to be overhauled to be faster and more efficient. I don't know that there are many on either side of the aisle in Congress that would disagree with that. The US has the right (as does every country) to control it's borders and determine who gets in and who doesn't. Considering the tenor of many countries, groups, etc. regarding the US, I think it's even more imperative that we have at least some control over who is in the country. Canada has it's own immigration laws. Mexico has it's own. Is there a country out there that doesn't have immigration laws? Is there a country out there whose immigration laws aren't difficult (excepting those countries where the people aren't trying to get in)? As far as your anecdote, I'm sure there is more to the story than what was presented. FFS, they should have sent a couple people to Italy to train under Benotto for 2 years. Jamison doors started manufacturing high speed doors in 2012, after starting a joint venture with BMP (Benotto's Italian company). Apparently, the 2 year immigration "nightmare" wasn't really all that bad. I mean, they started manufacturing the doors in 2012, and the "nightmare" was 2 years long at the time of that article in 2014. If it was really that imperative that Benotto be in the US, how did they start manufacturing those doors (and they still do today) in 2012?

Musicmystery -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 7:01:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Trump keeps talking about making America great again, making us safe and secure, building a wall to keep people out. But is that what will make America great? What ever happened to; “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Or; They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Or; Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! Patrick Henry It seems to me that a great America is less concerned with peace and safety and security and more about being the home of the brave and the land of the free. Is it really too much to ask for immigrants to come into the US legally? That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Trump's ban, however, turned away legal immigrants, including VISA holders and long-term green card holders. Citizens and people from friendly countries, like Canada, have been held up simply because they were Muslim. Simply reality, this is NOT a program to prevent illegal immigrants--it's an anti-Muslim policy. Trump's EO isn't about illegal immigration, though that means fuck all in this thread. Trump's EO you're complaining about isn't about the wall the OP is writing about. To your point, however, the EO was a blanket ban from 7 countries, all of them primarily Muslim, but not completely Muslim. It shouldn't have been executed the way it was, and shouldn't have applied - from the get got, not after the outcy - to the VISA holders, legal immigrants, and green-card holders. Canadian nationals (and any nationals from any country other than those 7 listed) shouldn't have been impacted, unless they are also nationals from one of the 7 listed countries. The EO was intended - from what I can tell - to give time to DHS to improve the current, or create a new vetting process for incoming nationals from those 7 countries. The difference between the "intent" and the actual roll-out illustrates the sheer incompetence of this train wreck, aside from the legal and discriminatory issues. The wall is easier--dumb, expensive, pointless. Even Texas Republicans don't want it, as it will do more harm than good. Ironically, the Atlantic reports, it will even trap migrants in the US wanting to return to Mexico.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 7:18:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery The difference between the "intent" and the actual roll-out illustrates the sheer incompetence of this train wreck, aside from the legal and discriminatory issues. The wall is easier--dumb, expensive, pointless. Even Texas Republicans don't want it, as it will do more harm than good. Ironically, the Atlantic reports, it will even trap migrants in the US wanting to return to Mexico. The wall and the EO are two separate things, and aren't the same, except from a wide angle, as the both have something to do with immigration. The wall is to help reduce illegal immigration, and the EO was to prevent Nationals from those 7 countries who might be terrorists from gaining entry. I know you know that, MM. Why you continue on as if it's not that way, I can't fathom.

tj444 -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 7:38:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: tj444 And these are good jobs that pay an average of $23 an hour, along with health care and retirement benefits. Twenty three dollars an hour is not a good paying job. My welfare cheque is bigger than that. I would not put my shoes on for $23 @ hour let alone work. Dude, we are talking about Hagerstown, Md which has a median income of $39,077 so for a full time job that works out to about $18 or 19/hr, this company will pay $23 PLUS health care and retirement benefits.. No, of course not every American will put their shoes on for $23/hr but if y'all are turning yer noses up at that, where are all these Americans who want those minimum wage jobs in the hot sun picking produce or cleaning toilets or doing yardwork are wiping seniors butts in the dementia ward all day long? Isnt taking those jobs from soon-to-be deported immigrants exactly what is gonna Make America Great Again?

tj444 -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 8:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Forget about the tired and poor. Consider a J1 exchange visitor living and working in the USA researching cures for cancer as a POST DOC. Her father becomes ill and dies in Iran, and so she travels back to IRAN for the funeral services. On return to the USA - where she has a job, a car, an apartment, and relatives, friends and co workers -- she is barred from reentry and her J1 visa is summarily canceled. Needless to say this educated doctor is not a security threat to the USA. So, the ban, as enacted, is de-facto proof of the immigration illiteracy of the White House and its nationalistic advisors. -- On the plus side, Iranian nationals and leaders where impressed with US demonstrators opposed to the White House actions. Its a small silver lining, but opposing countries need to find common ground and ties to one another. Sometimes its the bonds between decent, caring people irrespective of their governments -- that forms this valuable connection. Well, in actuality, even if a person's visa is good (not cancelled), the border immigration shithead has sole discretion & final say on if you will be allowed entry into/back into the US and it has happened before that an immigration border shithead has refused entry to approved visa holders.. No matter who the fuck you are, an in-good-standing visa is still no guarantee of entry.. if the immigration shithead doesnt like the look of you, you are up shite creek.. I feel for the Doctor, she should check out Canada, many immigrants have given up on the US & have gone to Canada instead to start businesses, work in tech, medical research, etc.. If Trump makes it too difficult for Silicon Valley to hire HB immigrants, then they will just move them to Canada (beautiful Vancouver which is one of the best cities in the world).. seems like some are starting to tell Trump to go fuck himself.. I expect this is just the start.. "at least one small group of cofounders has banded together to make it easier for U.S. companies to create subsidiaries in Canada and to move their U.S.-based employees to a new, Vancouver-based office, and all within what they describe as weeks, not months. " https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/31/in-silicon-valley-plotting-to-get-foreign-born-workers-to-vancouver/

tj444 -> RE: Making America Great Again? (2/13/2017 9:05:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Is it really too much to ask for immigrants to come into the US legally? That seems reasonable, doesn't it? Yes it is too much.. US immigration rules/law makes it almost impossible (unless you marry or have a family sponsor).. and its actually costing you Americans jobs.. but most of y'all are too stupid to realize that.. Seriously? It's too much to ask that people immigrate legally?!? I absolutely do believe immigration law and the legal process needs to be overhauled to be faster and more efficient. I don't know that there are many on either side of the aisle in Congress that would disagree with that. The US has the right (as does every country) to control it's borders and determine who gets in and who doesn't. Considering the tenor of many countries, groups, etc. regarding the US, I think it's even more imperative that we have at least some control over who is in the country. Canada has it's own immigration laws. Mexico has it's own. Is there a country out there that doesn't have immigration laws? Is there a country out there whose immigration laws aren't difficult (excepting those countries where the people aren't trying to get in)? As far as your anecdote, I'm sure there is more to the story than what was presented. FFS, they should have sent a couple people to Italy to train under Benotto for 2 years. Jamison doors started manufacturing high speed doors in 2012, after starting a joint venture with BMP (Benotto's Italian company). Apparently, the 2 year immigration "nightmare" wasn't really all that bad. I mean, they started manufacturing the doors in 2012, and the "nightmare" was 2 years long at the time of that article in 2014. If it was really that imperative that Benotto be in the US, how did they start manufacturing those doors (and they still do today) in 2012? As it said in the article in my link- "The company, meanwhile has started producing and selling some of the new roll-up doors, with Benotto's guidance from Italy. But it's not ready for mass production yet. " Yes, it started making the doors even before he arrived, but without him they wouldnt be able to mass produce them.. that cost Americans 15 jobs for those 2 years (or longer), at a time when lots of Americans would have jumped at those jobs.. Do you think the nightmare has somehow gotten easier for business immigrants since then?? Arent these the kinda job creating immigrants people like you say you want? The immigrant jumped thru all the hoops, he invested his money in real estate, equipment, materials, 73 fucking page application, he did absolutely everything he was supposed to do and your govt still screwed him around.. This is just one story of many, many, many.. maybe its not cheap labor costs that drive US corporations offshore, why should they go thru headaches like this when your govt treats high value immigrants this way.. maybe that is why Mexico is getting new factories and jobs.. Sure, other countries have their immigration laws, but yours are so fucked up that you cant compete with countries that move faster with immigration law changes to compete and adapt to what is going on in the world, you are shooting yourselves in the foot and yet you have the audacity to blame those other countries when its your/your govt's own fucking fault.. The next recession/depression is coming, very soon.. the US really isnt even out of the last one yet, we will see how America & Trump does on the downslide..

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