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Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 2:27:12 AM

respectmen

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/health/why-arent-we-doing-more-to-stop-men-dying-of-cancer/

The empathy gap.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 3:22:41 AM

freedomdwarf1

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There's no gap RM.

Men have just the same concerns - and treatment - of various types of cancer.
The problem is, most men won't go for checkups as often as women do.
That's why a proportionate number of men die unnecessarily from cancer.

It's a problem with men's attitude.
Nothing to do with women at all.

You really don't have a fucking clue do you.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 3:36:41 AM

respectmen

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dwarf

quote:

You really don't have a fucking clue do you.

You really didn't read the link, didn't you?

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 3:48:22 AM

bounty44

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change your thinking

quote:

Worryingly, this bleak picture gets even worse when you realise that, arguably, men are less of a priority for healthcare professionals. The secret reason? Politics. "I became a consultant in 1979, the same year that Margaret Thatcher introduced a nationwide breast-screening programme," says Prof Sikora. "The evidence that this would be effective was very weak but, aware that most floating voters are women, Mrs Thatcher and her advisers pressed ahead regardless. Since then, the screening programme has saved many women. But it has come at phenomenal cost – equivalent to around £1 million per life saved. Of course, every one of those saved lives is wonderful news, but by treating the NHS as a political football, politicians have added hugely to the disparity between male and female cancer survival rates."

One look at how this translates into financial reality says it all. A recent report by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism found that "in almost two-thirds of London's wards the life expectancy gap is wider than the national average". Yet, between 2007-2012, NHS Primary Care Trusts in four of the capital's boroughs spent a whopping £4,830,095 on commissioning women's services, but virtually nothing on men's. In the city's more deprived parts the gap stretches to 12 years.

Ironically, charities such as Cancer Research – which flags up these issues – still ban men and boys from some of their annual fundraisers. Its women-only Race for Life event raises money for research into all 200 types of cancer, but bars men from taking part, despite the fact we are three times more likely to get liver cancer, six times more likely to develop bowel cancer, 58 times more likely to be diagnosed with brain cancer, and 27 per cent more likely to get pancreatic cancer...

"The problem with the cancers Bowie and Rickman died of is that there isn't a screening programme for them," says Martin Tod. "There are also big doubts over the effectiveness of tests for prostate cancer, which killed Lemmy. This is all proof that the Department of Health have programmes which clearly aren't working with men.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 4:13:18 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

dwarf

quote:

You really don't have a fucking clue do you.

You really didn't read the link, didn't you?

Some of the biggest cancer killers are breast cancer and cervical cancer.
These are specific to women (altho men can get breast cancer, it's quite rare).
So yes, it is right that women get a boost for cancer treatment.

Prostate and testicular cancer is (obviously) a cancer specific to men.
First off, a lot of men don't do check-ups - there's your main problem.
Secondly, prostate cancer is more difficult to detect and treat than some women's cancers.

Men need to change their attitude to cancer and have their checkups as often as women do and maybe there won't be so many deaths.

Blaming it on women is non-starter.
Women generally live longer than men anyway.
And their claim that the life expectancy gap has widened by 400% is scaremongering as it's only a few years; nothing exactly to worry about and that was a comparison spanning more than a century.

And yes, I did read the link and see it as extremely biased reporting.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 5:44:30 AM

bounty44

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he didn't blame anything on women.

and you barely addressed anything in the article, let alone gave evidence for "extremely biased reporting."

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 6:04:43 AM

freedomdwarf1

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His simple comment of: 'The empathy gap' says it all.

And yes, I got the impression from the link that the reporting wasn't unbiased.
Why was that?
Simply by scaremongering statistics based over more than a century that amount to just a couple of years in life expectancy.

But that's what we expect from RM and his one-trick pony.
It's never any different.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 6:05:30 AM

Lucylastic

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Well there is "alternative facts" in the quote
1. The breast screening program by the NHS wasnt started till 1988.
2 Karol SIkora has been debunked by the hospital he was touting as his employer, believes in alternative therapy and private health insurance for cancer treatment(he owns one) A fierce critic of oncology healthcare as it is in the UK....hes not making enough money.
3. You might wanna read this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/health/why-do-men-hate-going-to-see-their-doctor/
and this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/10352356/Why-do-men-lie-about-their-health.html
or this from 1994
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96jun/cancer/kadar.htm

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 7:10:58 AM

Termyn8or

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quote:

Well there is "alternative facts" in the quote
1. The breast screening program by the NHS wasnt started till 1988.

Does not prove she did not advocate and push for it. sometimes things take time.

quote:

2 Karol SIkora has been debunked by the hospital he was touting as his employer

That means absolutely nothing. I have seen the debunkers debunked enough times to not just fall for what "they" say.

What's more, cancer is the big Cword that makes them more money than anything. It encompasses so many abnormal cell growths in the body so as to havee absolutely no meaning. All it means is that now your insurance company is going to pay them to poison you, burn you or butcher you.

I believe it has become a scare tactic. Of course this does not address the OP, but Men do niot scare as easily. buddy of mine was in his kitchen cutting something out of his arm one day, I walk in and ask what is going on. He says just cutting this thing off of me. Know if it is cancer ? He says cancer does not exist. It is just a word. When you get the flu you know what it is, when you get other conditions you know what it is. Cancer can be any abnormal growth anywhere from your blood to your brain, all totally unrelated and with no common cause unless you count your own biological deficiency.

Like I saw an anti-smoking ad on TV the other day where they guy pulls out his partials and reveals a very incomplete set of teeth. Smoking generally does not cause that. Tooth decay and the other forms of oseoporosis are caused by mineral deficiencies, not smoking. now if you want to stand there ad say it damaged your lungs I will believe that. But that ad is just more proof that like liberals, they use post hoc ergo propter hoc all the time and do not realize that correlation is not causation. If it was, then you explain to me those 95 year old guys at the bar sucking down two packs a day and drinking half a fifth of whiskey, and still getting frisky with the Ladies. And then explain how my ex-boss got lung cancer after never once smoking anything, and I mean anything. i mean the guy left the room when I lit up a cigarette. Splain that one.

It is all a big moneymaker and that is why they are so quick to "debunk" any alternative treatments and curse. some cancers, or tunors actually, whatever you got, actually do go away on their own. they don't puiblicise that much but if you do some looking you can find it. People who may or may not be screened. but why screen them ? Why do it when it costs YOU money to treat them ? Because SOMEONE gets that money.

I remember readinbg Dr. DiAdamo, (sp) and thinking OK, maybe there is something to this. Different people need different diets, well that is not hard to believe. he tried to correwlate it with blood type, with less than stellar results, but does that mean everything he ever postulated was wrong ? hell no. In fact he went into some iridology, which was debunked for a long time, and really I had a hard time believing it. but guess what, it is making a comeback. And don't forget accupuncture, total quackology right ? But now a recognized science.

Like Joel Wallach. he could be criticised fro selling things to people when it was already too late, sure. but what he said has never been debunked and it probably never will be. Our bodies need certain trace minerals to manufacture hormones and other chemicals needed in the process of living. You cannot live on carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. They tried to debunk him but fell on their nose guards. Every fucking word he said was true.

So who debunks the debunkers ? Snopes has been caught with their pants down. Not many times but it has happened. And the website quackwatch is full of shit half the time, just spouting the party line and basically "Give the medical industry your money because they are always right and everyone else is wrong". And not much else.

But you all go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. The authorites will take care of you. they charge the most possible in the US and deliver the poorest care. their regulations do nothing to help people or the envirtonment. their laws create more problems than they solve.

But they are the "authorities" and you should trust them.

Beam me up Scotty.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 7:22:45 AM

Termyn8or

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BTW I was not trying to stick up for RM who sees sex inequaitly in everything, probably including a case of beer, but I am saying to beware of the debunkers as well as those authorities. They have been found wrong enough times that hey should ot be considered infallible.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 7:30:51 AM

Lucylastic

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As my olman is going thru chemo right now for cancer, Im gonna tell you to fuck off.

homeopathic OR medicinal herbs(MJ) aint gonna touch that shit. certainly not in time to save his life...

He is in 2 studies as well, OH NO RESEARCH INTO HOW TO STOP CANCER. ANd I hasten to add, he is a man....an OLD WHITE MAN

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 9:05:17 AM

Termyn8or

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quote:

As my olman is going thru chemo right now for cancer, Im gonna tell you to fuck off.

You are perfectly within your rights to tell me whatever you please. But I am free to ask, has he even tried anything else ? Every time an alternative treatment seems to work they blow it of with their original diagnosis was wropng. Care to explore how many times that has happened ?

I always thought you were open minded, though we do disagree strongly on some things. But the fact is that disease, which includes cancer in its myriad of forms which make it not even a disease but a blanket statement by doctors "You gonna die, gimme all your money and your insurance company's too" type of shit.

I am sorry to know that a Man who could tame you (you have revealed some things about your past to me, remember ?) would get caught up into this game. And I am not saying to go off his treatment and find some Indian guru or some shit, for two reasons. First of all you are right, herbal shit and all that usually does not work unless it comes before the cancer. Like all diseases, cancer is CAUSED. The problem is we do not have a time machine nor the ability to process data from the past to find the cause. And of course research is not going in that direction because there is no money in it. That is my story and I am sticking to it. Forever. I would say that about half of what they call cancer should be called cancer, the rest of it is so removed from the definition it should be called something else, but they use the big Cword. that is my point.

And I am in no position to give any advice about your olman's treatment, and in fact would really avoid doing so because as far as I can tell, you are either with them or not. In other words the doctors emits the Cword, if you do not reject all their shit right then you are stuck with it, there is no going back.

I never meant to offend you. That I said your olman is caught up in their game is not meant as an insult. they got letters after their name and plaques on the wall, of course most people believe them. But they are the most closed minded people on Earth and they profit by it. You can't find a contingent of people who more deserve to be questioned relentlessly. I have seen too much.

i find us more opposed on issues now that your liberal side is coming out, and of course the recent political developments. (if you can call them that lol) But don't hate me. Hate drains your energy and pollutes your view of damnear everything. I stopped engaging in it decades ago and found it a wonderful experience. you want hate from me you have to come here and kill one of my people or something, you opinion will never do it.

i wish your olman the best of luck and full remission, but only the alternatives try to go there. They are allowed to advertise so they really can't be total quacks. (or can they ?)

Be well. And I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 9:12:52 AM

mnottertail

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https://www.harpercollins.com/9780061230974/death-be-not-proud

Read the book...steamed carrots and picking your teeth with a yew tree dont work. There are promising things on the horizon, but none of it is Euell Gibbons style "Ever ate a pine tree? Most parts are edible", sort of shit.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 9:26:15 AM

Termyn8or

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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/health/why-arent-we-doing-more-to-stop-men-dying-of-cancer/

The empathy gap.

First of all, you pussies in the UK and its empire have this stupid idea that the government is supposed to maintain your ass. Well the Men over here do not assume that. and we do not go to the doctor for a god damn hangnail. And if there is something poking out my skin I get a razor knife and cut it out.

there is nowhere in the US Constitution that says you have the right to a pain free life, but then that means nothing to you boys. you think they should just take care of you.

Well the fact is they wanted to do a colonoscopy on me when I went in for cataract surgery and I told the doctor "I am here for an eye operation, just how far do you stick that thing up there ?".

And then they almost insisted on a flu shot. I had nev3r had one and never had the flu but since I was going in there where immunocompromised people ight be I let them stick it to me. Funny how people fail to see that one who has had the flu shot could be a carrier but one who actually gets the flu stays home and does not infect others. but that kind of logic is finished in this world.

Bottomline, Women will go to the docrtor for alot of thihngs while many Men will not go until they really believe that they have less than a fifty fifty chance of living if they don't. I got shot in the face and did not want to go, but the fucking ambulance someone called was not going near my house. Beat up by three guys, stabbed and all that shit, I never went to a doctor.

So RM, find another piece. You are gaining no purchase with this one. The fact is, at least in the US, that Men get less medical care because we seek less medical care. some of us even believe survival of the fittest is the best way. Some of us would go out in the cold and freeze to death when we get too old to be of any use to our tribe. Some of us refuse ALL medical treatment because it interferes with natural selection, and that is not a religious thing. And some of us make that decision for our offspring, which brings on many legal problems.

So RM, you whining about Men not getting mammograms or whatever it is today, is not especially impressive to me. And mind you I am on your side. I know the law is skewed for Women. Like when a couple has a fight, the cops ask HER "Are you afraid of him ?" and oif she says yes he has to leave, and CONTINUE TO PAY THE BILLS. I know one guy who stood up to the pigs and told them "Fuck you, I bought this bitch two houses n the last two years, SHE CAN LEAVE". She left. She had 0ut fishing jhooks in the bed, probably to cut his eyes as he slept. I know that cunt and she is bad news as is most of her fucked up family. I would have told the cops I was afraid of her, because I have to sleep and do not want to wake up dead.

I KNOW. I have seen it. But please try to come up with something worthwhile. Damn.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 11:06:25 AM

WhoreMods

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You really are a whiney little bitch, aren't you?

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 11:15:36 AM

Termyn8or

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You really are a whiney little bitch, aren't you?

WellI don't go runningg to a neurosurgeon when I stub a toe.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 11:17:37 AM

Termyn8or

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

https://www.harpercollins.com/9780061230974/death-be-not-proud

Read the book...steamed carrots and picking your teeth with a yew tree dont work. There are promising things on the horizon, but none of it is Euell Gibbons style "Ever ate a pine tree? Most parts are edible", sort of shit.

So you, the second biggest asshole on here decides to find the worst quackery possible and try to send it up the flagpole for judgement of all alternative treatments for everything ?

You really are a piece of work.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 11:35:36 AM

Termyn8or

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Read that post to yourself, very slowly so that you understand what it says.

It describes you.

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 1:26:27 PM

MrRodgers

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I have to ask a few questions of those that don't think that cancer is still with us and because it's one of the world's leading if not THE leading profit center.

How is it that MSK (Memorial Sloan Kettering) cured cancer in 1896 and...now they can't ? Why is there (or there was for many years) a member of the Bd. of Dir. from Bristol Meyers on the Bd. of Dir. of MSK ? Do you think it may be because Drs. are ALL trained for their very first prescription for almost all cancers is chemo ? And Bristol Meyers makes 1/2 of all profits off chemo ? Why is there a member of the Bd. of Dir. of any drug co. on the BoD of MSK in the first place ?

How is it that even though the 'medical scientists' of the day said it was quackery and foolish to think so when it was discovered that eating citrus fruits (vitamin C) found in the Caribbean by the British navy...cured scurvy ? (good thing the FDA wasn't around to get ahold of that one hey ?) Wouldn't we really prefer to be wearing pink ribbons and the like and spendings Billion$ on still trying to cure scurvy...if it had. I mean, wouldn't it have been much better to have the FDA around to make sure Vit. C actually cured scurvy ?

Why is it that every clinic that in fact was treating and curing cancer over the 20th century...has been shut down by govt. both in the US and Canada ?

The Hunza Apricot Pit, Vitamin B-17, and the Cancer Cure Myth. Myth ? Sure...let's keep it that way, we're providing $50 billion/yr in profits. Shall we just keep thinking it's all myth, we wouldn't really want to find out for sure if B-17 was a cure. The FDA didn't want to find out.

The Hunza people did grow apricots and eat the apricot kernel of the apricot pit. The apricot kernel does indeed contain vitamin B-17, and the people may have had a low incidence of cancer, (in fact 1922 British doctors found none and none since) but the apricot had nothing to do with the cancer rate in the Hunza people. (it directly reduces and in many case, eliminates tumors...see World Without Cancer Youtube) Vitamin B-17 has never been shown to prevent or cure cancer. (it most certainly did in two FDA tests) The dead Hunzakuts were never examined by anyone to verify the cause of death. It was never proven that they had a low incidence of cancer. (it most certainly was and at FDA but researchers were prohibited from going further)

Why did the documented success of amygdalin twice from two different doctors that were surreptitiously pulled from the research, then refer in the refusal of FDA to go further, actually have "Now if there could be a compound in the same cyano-family of research could be found with the SAME properties and results...the FDA would take interest." It had that because amygdalin in fact did work but the FDA will only approve that which can be patented and on which...Billion$ in profit could be made.

Why is the medical practice of recommending Amygdalin prohibited when you can sell any number of compounds and pills on the net with little or no oversight at all ? (just like ED pills prohibited by FDA that are exactly like Viagra and the like but they didn't pay up)

Why has there been such medical progress and great success in all other areas of science and medical science BUT not in cancer research and no change in deaths per 100,000 ? Why is it that the same number of people or even more people (per 100,000) are dying of cancer then there were 50-60 years ago.

Just asking. that's all.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/16/2017 1:28:48 PM >

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RE: Why aren't we doing more to stop men dying of cancer? - 2/16/2017 1:59:07 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/health/why-arent-we-doing-more-to-stop-men-dying-of-cancer/

The empathy gap.

Myself, I've come to see the root problem of this empathy gap as the result of traditional sexism - the sort of sexism that says 'men are tough and don't need help', particularly amongst those with power in society. For me, it's part and parcel of the same attitude that, for instance, has had us men being packed off to fight in wars for hundreds of years. I'm presuming your own overview of this problem's origins is somewhat different, however?

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