RE: SoulMates...? (Full Version)

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Quivver -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/11/2004 6:11:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

it is truly a treasure to find a consistent man, who knows what He wants, can communicate it and appreciates it when it belongs to Him.

If there is truly a SoulMate out there for me, He'll find me in this line, patiently waiting. [sm=lol.gif]




Suleiman -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/11/2004 6:08:08 PM)

::runs screaming for the hills:: Gaaah! I'm being haunted by this topic! Help me! I came here to get away from this line of discussion!

(Okay, so why am I responding then, instead of avoiding it? Just masochistic, I guess)

The concept of soul-mates comes from the pop metaphysics version of the idea of reincarnation and transmigration of souls. The basic idea is that certian souls travel together from incarnation to incarnation. In each lifetime, these souls meet up, in whatever role or body they are karmically destined to play. Two strangers meet, and find they have a deep and abiding understanding of one another, as if they've always known one another.

Since the 60s, give or take, this has been further mutilated into a new myth about "twue wuv". Ignoring the fact that soul mates frequently have so much backed up and unresolved karmic issues that they often despise one another in mortal life (Imagine being married for a thousand years, and you can't get a divorce until you've squared away all of the debts, positive and negative, until neither of you owes the other anything), some folks have become enamored of the idea that there is a perfect someone, a "soul mate", who is their best friend, confidante, and lover all rolled into one. Of course this person will also be of the correct gender and orientation, since this is the "soul mate" we're talking about.

It's a wonderfully romantic fantasy (and as I often say, I'm generally a fan of romance and fantasy, so you'd think I would have a less harsh opinion about this. You folks have read my comments that I am occasionally a very trollish sort? Occultism and metaphysics is where most of where my piss and vinegar reside) but it's a fantasy based on slipshod research and a complete lack of undeerstanding of the principals involved. It's as infuriating as someone rattling a tip jar at a local coffee house and saying that it's "karma". Or, for that matter, the general concept of "instant karma", the idea that the universal scales balance themselves, not just in one lifetime, but (to hear some anecdotal accounts) almost within the hour! ARGH!

::sigh:: (okay man, get a grip, these folks mostly don't care about your epic battle against fluffbunnies)

It is indeed possible to find the perfect person for you. Obviously, I don't use the term soulmate for this optimal (and optional) "One". I'm actually fairly convinced that my wife and I have never had a single prior incarnation with each other - which is probably why we get along so well together. Call it "karmic honeymoon syndrome", if you will.

The first thing you must know, if you are going to actively seek this "One", is to truly understand who you are and what you need. Once you understand that, you will then have a solid idea of what attributes are required in you "One". The rest of the process is just sorting frog from prince, like everyone else. The difference is that you have a finer sieve for separating wheat from chaff, and so you don't waste as much time in relationships that really aren't what you happen to be looking for.

Yes, it is concievable that you will put together a list of criteria that can not be met. There are six billion people in the world, an overwhelming majority of whom will never be met by you. However finisky you list may be, there is a good chance that a match exists, but the circumstances of your search may make it impossible for you to find them. However, even without this hypothetical perfect mate, it is still possible to use your list (with a bit of prioritization as to which items are mandatory and which are more like bonuses or soft limits) to help you determine which lovers are better suited to your tastes and needs, which will, I guarantee you, save you from a lot of angst, grief, and melodrama over the years (unless angst, grief, and melodrama happen to be one of those things you need in your life, in which case I suggest accepting that fact and embracing it, so as to control what sorts of melodrama you get sucked into).

Any way, that's probably too much information for a casual topic of discussion, but the dander was rising and I had to snap off an answer. It could be worse - you might have asked about sure-fire love spells (if there was such a thing, then why are there whole books full of nothing but love spells on sale in the occult section of every book store?)

Take care.

~S




darlyn -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/11/2004 6:46:53 PM)

Are You one? Hopefully i will find out.
Do You want one? Why wouldn't i?
What is a soulmate to You? The one God wants me to be with.
Do You think soulmates exist? Yes... have met those that were Soulmates to each other, and their happiness truly shined through their eyes and their actions.
Is a soulmate the same as 'The One'? That would be really nice, but not my decision.
What happens if You search for One and never find Him/Her? i have found when i stopped looking is when the most incredible things happen.





topcat -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/12/2004 7:26:30 AM)

quote:

it's a fantasy based on slipshod research and a complete lack of undeerstanding of the principals involved. It's as infuriating as someone rattling a tip jar at a local coffee house and saying that it's "karma". Or, for that matter, the general concept of "instant karma", the idea that the universal scales balance themselves, not just in one lifetime, but (to hear some anecdotal accounts) almost within the hour! ARGH!

::sigh:: (okay man, get a grip, these folks mostly don't care about your epic battle against fluffbunnies)


My brother S.-

Come the revolution, you can throw the fluffbunnies off the roof (just tell'em it's their karma).

I actually believe that MizSuz is a soulmate of mine, but of a different sort. I think she is me in a future incarnation....

Stay warm,
Lawrence




Mercnbeth -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/12/2004 8:47:35 AM)

quote:

It's a wonderfully romantic fantasy


Suleiman,

From the perspective of a MOST cynical ex-New Yorker that I am, I not only would agree with you but would vehemently argue the point. As a devote agnostic pragmatist I could still make a case for it. And for a more obscure reference, watching the movie 'What Dreams May Come' I yelled at Robin Williams and wondered who in their right mind would have journeyed to hell and back successfully, had a great house with a wonderful view, living in heaven with their dog; and made a decision to be born and "find each other all over again"?!

So with all that in mind beth came into my life. I don't like the candy-ass, and perhaps overused 'soul-mate' reference any more then you do, but in lack of a better word it will do. Maybe it's something you don't believe until you experience it. Anyway - excuse the sentimental "romantic fantasy".

But I will tell you this. If hell really does exist (God Forbid!), and beth manages to save ME from it (Obviously if one of us is going there - It'll be me.) and we're living in a house with a view and, if it's OUR heaven, it came with a completely furnished dungeon, WE AINT COMING BACK!!!




DRoseThorns -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/12/2004 10:16:01 AM)

Most excellent answers to these questions!




afmvdp -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/12/2004 10:52:40 AM)

Suleiman haha. You sound just like an old 93 friend of mine when you go off on your diatribes it's just very reminiscent of years passed in candlelit rooms.

To the topic at hand though, I have the agree with the concept that there is no "one" there are "ones" to the degree in which I don't believe in kismit. I am a logician and just by doing the simple math of 1 out of 3,267,010,902 seems a bit far fetched does it not? To think that my absolute soul mate would be someone I would ever find would be unlikely to say the least. Now of course I good break that down to a long string of math and drive that number way down but I'll digress as the point will still hold still at 3.2+ billion as it would at 10.4 Million or even a 250-300,000. It's still more than I could ever meet and weed through in even hundreds of years.

Now I do believe that we can find the "half" (or the .5 for the mathematically observant doing their charts and graphs at home) that person which fits in with you and your quirks so well and compliments you to such a degree that they are able to mold seemlessly into your life. I think the idea of a "one" is a vain and selfish idea really as the idea of finding the one is to make you more than you are, make you the "Two" the unseperatable...but that isn't real like has been said, romantic but unrealistic. The half is quite obtainable though still a process by which to find which half is your best half on which to try to begin that life melding with as together you both become the One that you were searching for before outside of yourself. So perhaps the "one" does exist in metaphor as the one is what you become when you find the person to whom you are going to give it a go with. The difference being that in the modern world, with longevity as it is, relationships often underlive our life spans. It's easy to go back centuries when a person would only live 30-40 years and imagine a fairy tale life together...but when you start doubling those figures...well I'm no saint and I've yet to meet any either.

Perhaps my concepts are a bit out there often times to people, and that's fine but we all are on our own paths to find something in our lives, to get something out of life to some people that is a someone and to them let them enjoy their own way of finding things. Who knows, maybe a few people have got lucky enough by the roll of the dice to end up with Mrs Perfect...I on the otherhand keep rolling snake eyes. haha




slavegyrl -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/12/2004 11:20:54 AM)

Is someone who touches your soul the minute you meet them...most of the time, some times it takes a good flogging.




Suleiman -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 12:04:49 AM)

Heh. 93... 23... Blessed Be... HIKE!!! (sorry, old joke, but what the heck. It's kind of like going to the ashram and greeting people by saying "B'hai, B'how are you?" - once you develop the habit it never seems to go away.)

TopCat~ I actually try to grudgingly remind myself that the fluffbunny epidemic is a phase that nearly everyone goes through. Eventually, you either grow out of it or else lose interest in the spirituality scene and move on. Even so, some recurring fluffisms just get on my nerves. In this case, because I've gotten better responses and rebuttals to the concept here than in any club or board devoted to spirituality (I hate taking a firm stance in a debate only to have the opposition melt like a sand castle in the tide)

Merc~ By and large, I have to agree with you. STOP THAT! I hate agreeing with you! [:-] (I've actually toyed with getting baptised just so that I can eventually travel to the same afterlife as my wife, but since she's convinced she's going to hell, and I'm a pagan, I figure I can get there anyway)

Speaking of hell - I really have to appreciate the irony of quoting St Augustine as your sig line in this forum. Very cute.

afmvdp~ I think your proposal of the "half" rather than "One" is sound reasoning, although as Merc has pointed out "soulmate" is, for lack of any superior nomenclature, a valid name for the concept. I believe you have clearly explained my own point better than I could have, but then my strength is in words, rather than numbers.

I do agree that the fairy tale life is a much easier concept if you only have a potential 25-40 years of marriage together, but also our concept of marriage has radically changed in this culture in the last couple of generations, a fact which we are only barely beginning to come to grips with as a society. I think that the change in cultural consciousness has in spark spawned the "soulmate" fantasy, in that we still have a cultural oral tradition telling us unconsciously that marriage lasts forever, but rationally and realistically we know that it does not. This knowledge does not countermand a deep cultural imperative to which we instinctively want to respond, and so (as a race of story-tellers) we create new myths about how to create a perfect union, so that we can philosophically explain and understand our own percieved lacking.

Snake eyes may not be the natural order of things, but certianly crapping out rather than making your point is. It takes a great many throws of the dice to take the pot, and many folks give up before the game is over. Others find the game preferable to the winnings. Me, I just learned how to put a little english on the dice...

Be well.

~S




darkinshadows -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 2:56:26 AM)

quote:

we still have a cultural oral tradition telling us unconsciously that marriage lasts forever, but rationally and realistically we know that it does not.


Why then, be married? What is the point of being married if a person believes it is doomed to fail? Why not live in a 'relationship', rather than 'marriage'? I don't see the point of being married if marriage is expected to end. Why bother with the pomp and ceremony and the waste of everything when it is going to fail, if You can just be together and depart ammicably at its natural end? Marriage is meant to last, it is meant as a blending of flavours that makes something unique, that can be eventually consumed, not wasted and thrown in a bin. That is why it is marriage(religions aside)... it isnt just about 'being married'... if its not seen as such... then You are just in a tempory relationship that is suiting to both you and your partner at the present time, no matter what piece of paper you have between you.

You say that rationally and realistically, marriage does not last... however, that is a humans point of view, and we all know that men & women are neither rational nor realistic.... if they were the world would be a much happier place.




DelawareVenus -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 6:13:18 AM)

Each night as I sleep, I hear the sound of your breathing, And the gentle beat of your heart next to mine; Then my pulse starts racing, my heart begins to pound For I wake up to find you're not even around. Where did you go so quickly in the night... I look all around but you're nowhere in sight. I call out your name, but there's no reply, I'm running, searching, my body in a sweat. Then Suddenly I see that tantalizing smile, With those sweet tender eyes gazing back at me. I reach out my hand to touch your soft face, But suddenly you disappear without a trace. I rise up in the bed, wiping sweat from my brow, Feeling kind of silly and wondering how; My nights seem lonely without you around, How crazy does that even sound? I don't even know you, we've not even met, I know you're out there, I just haven't found you yet; Hold on to your dreams, for one day we'll meet, Only to discover true love so tender and sweet.


DelawareVenus





quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

A term often seen, mentioned readily but...

Are You one?
Do You want one?
What is a soulmate to You?
Do You think soulmates exist?
Is a soulmate the same as 'The One'?
What happens if You search for one and never find Him/Her?

Thank You for reading this.






Mercnbeth -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 9:54:46 AM)

quote:

Speaking of hell - I really have to appreciate the irony of quoting St Augustine as your sig line in this forum. Very cute.


Sule,

Glad you 'got it'!

It's a favorite debate and negotiating tactic of mine to use quotes from the other side to make your case. For that reason alone I read more views contrary to mine then those in agreement and then research as much as possible to validate my beliefs.

So, based on your post, and IF it exists, I see you in hell. (ummmm, never thought or used "see you in hell" as a friendly gesture before) I've already lived in NJ, and was married to a demon - how much worse can it be?




lilserenity -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 10:36:31 AM)

I believe it is all in your heart. If you find that one then He/she is your destiny..Being a soulmate can be many things ,one can be a friend and very good freind,or someone could be your compatable one or opposite .. I believe in the clique.. I know many donot but in the "clique" but I believe in it I have had it twice being online for 7 years but its a feeling that when your heart knows it it reacts so quickly but yet so strong and what really gets me it lasts for only a few seconds..But it is a few seconds that will direct you into your choice in having your One or soulmate.. But if you decide not that person(when your heart say yes) then it may be a long time to have that feeling again or pull like a magnet which will tug in your heart. I cannot say or describe another feeling as such but only your heart knows when you found that one,but please ask questions and make sure you are compatible in likes and dislikes .too many take the chance and go meet and get hurt by the other because they assumed.. smile.. So if one is meant to be they will be and You both will know it at the same time hugs serenity




rubytuesday -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/13/2004 12:22:27 PM)

dark angel - interesting how different people have different opinions on life love and marriage to say the least.

Marriage as it once stood did last for a lot of people but then the average life span of a human was considerably less than it is now. When faced with the average person passing over in their 30's and 40's then marriage was probably for life but now IMO we arent always meant to be with one person for the entire lifespan becuase people now live till 70 or 80 and beyond. Gosh not sure if i got across what i meant to but anyway JMO.

Having been widdowed 15 years ago and now having an ex of 6 months standing I think for me it will be 3rd time lucky and it will be a relationship and not a marriage - altho giving Liz Taylor a run for her money could be fun .

Interestingly enouch New Zealand has just this past week put the Civil Union bill into place which now means you can have your relationship either heterosexual or homosexual recorded and you dont have to be married for it to be legal.

smiles

ruby




darkinshadows -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/14/2004 6:45:30 AM)

quote:

Marriage as it once stood did last for a lot of people but then the average life span of a human was considerably less than it is now.


yup... in the recent past... lol..and depending on what books and records a person reads from the further past... but I do understand your point.

But I still do not understand why people marry if they see it will eventually fail... I just dont see the point (whether for the fluffy bits or not)... if you want to be with someone but think it 'might' end, then why not just enjoy the time you have together and bugger all the pomp and a piece of paper that means absolutely nothing to you? Its no different than some velcro collar if you look at it in that way.
From Angels point of view, I don't beilve in a single soulmate... theres no other 'half' of me, because that would make me less of the person I already am, and I am a whole person. One the other hand, I do believe in 'kindred spirits'... people that enhance what I am. Some stay in my life...some pass by. Were my husband and I destined to be together?... I can't answer that... but I know He isn't the other half of me, He is a whole beautiful person in His Own Right... One I admire and stand in awe of and who enhances my life... we are different...seperate, yet together we are One.
And never for a moment have I thought that marriage is doomed to fail, else I would never of married... but I am well aware that is isnt all hearts and fluff... the romance isnt what we are, but what is within.

And I can think of no better bondage than being married to Him.[:D]




MizSuz -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/22/2004 12:31:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

My brother S.-

I actually believe that MizSuz is a soulmate of mine, but of a different sort. I think she is me in a future incarnation....

Stay warm,
Lawrence




You always have the nicest things to say. I drop in for the first time in weeks, maybe months, and you are ever my champion! <smile> You humble me, sir.

However, I do hope you're wrong. Being me ain't all it's cracked up to be some times.


Luv ya,
Suz




topcat -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/22/2004 12:39:54 PM)

quote:

Being me ain't all it's cracked up to be some times.


Madame-

no doubt. I do find that there is a stranger thing than I have known between us. I do not put you on a pedestal (unless it is to look up your skirt<g>). I see you as you are- truely- I know the good and the bad, and there are no rose colored glasses between you and my eyes.

and yet, I do adore you so...

Stay warm,
Lawrence




MizSuz -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/22/2004 2:01:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Madame-

no doubt. I do find that there is a stranger thing than I have known between us. I do not put you on a pedestal (unless it is to look up your skirt<g>). I see you as you are- truely- I know the good and the bad, and there are no rose colored glasses between you and my eyes.

and yet, I do adore you so...

Stay warm,
Lawrence




Stranger is my middle name, as it is yours! hahahaha So we are 'of a feather.' I know what you mean, though. That enduring sense of "I'll always be at home when I'm with him/ her." Ya know, I am VERY glad that we didn't screw it all up by trying to turn it into domesticity or some other 'socially acceptable' horror. [:D]




sub4hire -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/23/2004 11:09:11 AM)

I want to state up front I have not read any of the replies on this topic. So if I repeat what someone else as already said, please forgive me.

I think one would need to determine exactly what a soul mate is before you could accurately answer this question.
There are people in the world who do not believe we even have soul's, so how could we possibly find a mate for something we do not have?
So, as everything else in the world it comes down to personal opinion. What are one's beliefs?
I have seen more death in my life than I have life. Do we have soul's? I'd like to think so.

My mother passed away almost 3 years ago. I told her doctor at the end I was not there for her birth. I would be there for such a special occassion as her death. So, I stood and told her it was ok to go if she needed to. Held her hand until she took her last breath. At that time I expected to experience something grand unlike anything I had ever experienced in my life thus far. It didn't happen. There was no big last breath. There was nothing. No white body emerging from the body as it expelled its last breath. No movement from her whatsoever. The only thing that did happen is the room got just a tiny bit colder than it had been moments before. Little to nothing, yet at the same time it gave me hope we do have souls.
We all need something to cling to in life. For the ever after. I still have a great many unanswered questions. Do we have someplace grand to go after we pass? Who knows?
I know I don't know.

So assuming we do have a soul. You ask, are you a soulmate? Well I assume I am a soul. I'm not my own mate. Sure, I could be someone elses mate. Although no way to truly know that, now is there?
Do, I want a soulmate? Sure who would'nt?
Do I believe soulmates exist? That I do not know. I'd like to believe so. Yet, a great many people get married and remain so for many years. If you ask them if they have found their soulmate they will tell you no. So, are they soulmates or just really great friends?
I do know Doug told me about a year into our relationship that I was his soulmate. To me that is the biggest compliment anyone could ever give me. In my mind that is a bond greater than love.
Is a soulmate the same as the one? Well, I don't think so. I do happen to know there is no "one" Sure there are brief moments of the "right" person but there is no "one" Nobody is perfect. For there to be a "one" that refers to a perfect being and that just is not going to happen here on earth.
What happens if you search and never find the right person?
Well you die lonely of course. You've wasted your entire life on what? Unfulfilled, lonely and angry. My life means too much to me to be that selfish. We do not choose our own destiny. Sure we can work hard to try to modify it. We don't choose it though. If it is not in our fate to find the perfect person for us. Then it just isn't going to happen.
You make due with what you have. Isn't that what the bible tells us to do?

Anyway, that's my take on soulmates.




MemphisDsCouple -> RE: SoulMates...? (12/23/2004 3:06:21 PM)

Does anyone else notice a vast chasm dividing the way men have written on this topic and the way women have addressed it? (A couple of exceptions notwithstanding.)




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