gnathic
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
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ORIGINAL: gnathic
Thank you, yes, that is exactly what I think the situation probably is. Perhaps it is unfair of me, but I can't help but feel a little resentful of this because I know that if I were the sub inviting a third in, that I would only agree to this if I were OK with sharing completely. My ex Dom and I spoke about potentially inviting a long term third after we had played 1:1 a little more, and I can't imagine asking her to be sent home once we played. I personally would only agree to such an arrangement if I felt ok not cherry-picking the good parts for myself and then disregarding the needs of the other person. Perhaps you disagree, but I personally think that is a bit selfish, especially given that drop can occur at the end of a scene.
I think a part of this (the 'what you would do') complicates matters. It sets the whole thing up as 'what you do would be right and what other people want as bad'. Frankly, I don't stay the entire night with every person I play with. The drop can occur at any time theory, while true, doesn't mean that everybody should put their life on hold, waiting for it to happen.
And, maybe I'm wrong, but this wasn't the case. The three of you played. All of you got ready from the hotel to go to dinner. Ate dinner as a foursome. After dinner, you went to the home of a trusted friend. You stayed the night in company of the other party.
Through the course of events, I'm guessing that you were doing ok, to some degree. Not an emotional mess at a restaurant, etc.
If your feeling bad about this a day or two later occurred, the subject of staying over the original night was a misnomer. If not, you are saying that drop would have been prevented based on WHERE you slept and WHO was in the bed with you at the time. It wasn't about the actual activities that you engaged in. Rather the circumstances around/after such play.
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Yes, I think that is exactly why I was prevented from paying. I just wish that I had realised the bigger picture and hadn't assumed that none of us were staying. Or that she had simply explained that, for now at least, I would need to leave afterwards as this is their time. I would have appreciated that honesty and her being direct and upfront. Whereas I felt that she basically avoided that whole conversation. It wasn't her fault that I didn't twig the implications of what was happening, but I still think that it would have been a better way of handling it to have actually brought it up with me rather than side-step the issue.
I have to tell you. I'm not big on "the responsibility should be on the Domme" to bring it up when it comes to negotiations. The stuff that is important to you, has to be brought to the table by you.
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Regarding the sub heirarchy, I agree to a degree. I agree that of course he is more important to her, of course. When I have played with those couples before, I obviously realised they were more important to each other than I was to them. But I personally think that if you choose to involve a regular third, there are ways of going about it that don't involve taking the good bits for yourself and disregarding the other person. I appreciate that you probably would disagree with this, but I personally think that when you're dealing with a person, there are going to be both benefits and costs to such a situation, and it is unfair to just take the benefits. You're dealing with a person, after all. For want of a better analogy, I think it's life taking a job as a schoolteacher because you love kids and then refusing to be present at parent evenings because you dislike the parents. I'm basically just being used for sex at that point..even though they presented this very explicitly as wanting to involve me both inside and outside the bedroom. Bedroom only wasn't what I agreed to, but at this point, there's nothing to suggest that this isn't what they are actually gunning for. And I don't think that is fair, I think it's sneaky if this is their plan for the long-term.
With all due respect, you aren't a regular third yet. It's something that was discussed. Not something that has actually happened at this point.
For your school teacher analogy, that was an 'all or nothing' position. As it happens, I work with a gal who is sort of 'taking a year off' from teaching. She is doing substitute work (mostly) at this time and is paying her bills being employed where I work. (She's quite good at it. Better than I am, actually.) She's not big on parents. PTCs, in her opinion, should be about where the student is doing well and the areas in where they need work.
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I agree on your following two paragraphs. I see what you mean regarding drop, I think you're right. I would have felt bad whether I got drop or not (though it probably didn't help). Thanks for the information on that topic.
As a personal note, I find the subjects of space and drop fascinating. I wish we knew more about it. The chemical level. How we interpret it. How things like adrenaline and dopamine process. Why we do it at different rates. So much we don't understand that it would be really cool to know.
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Is there a specific way that you think I could bring this up with her? I'm thinking that when she arranges the next scene and either outlines the timeframe I'm expected for or simply doesn't mention it that I may have to just come straight out and ask her if this is going to be the regular set-up and that I probably need more than that. But then it gets to the twisting-her-arm thing that I mentioned in my opening.
I hope you'll understand that my opinion comes from someone who engages in "V" type poly for all respective purposes. I don't, and I've never treated multiple relationships of mine as "equals". Don't really believe in it much.
Yes, your opening about this would be if/when you are approached for play again. Let's say the last time wasn't negotiated well. (Humor me.)
First thing I'd be looking at, even if you are a secondary, would be how is this shaping up between you and her? Is she spending time with you, contributing to what just you and she have together? He gets his time. Do you get yours?
Second, outline some boundaries. Play isn't the only area of life that has limits and preferences. No, you probably don't neeeeeeeeed eight hours of aftercare after a simple afternoon romp. Why can't you talk about what would make the experience better for you?
When you do that, include the good stuff in your conversation. Not just what didn't work for you. There were good parts, too, right?
Third, realize that negotiation means just that. Everybody has different ideas. Just like you would have liked something from this prior experience, well, maybe she's not in her comfort zone just yet for everything you want. Could what you want be a goal? Is it a goal worth working towards? Hey, maybe you don't spend the night together just yet, or you sleep in separate rooms in the same space to get closer to that? Got a couch that she can crash on after a (kink) club night?
If you were to ask me, which you did, if you want to build a relationship, build one. It's not really different.
I think you have a point. I think the fact that she has handled it in a way differently to the way I would, makes it very easy for me to take that as her not caring about me. For me, if I were to send her off at the end of a scene, it would be because I don't care. Whereas, I don't actually know her position on that. I need to talk to her about this whole topic, really.
I think I specifically need aftercare in the form of spending the night (if a scene occurs during the evening) with my Dom/me is what I need, on the basis of what has previously worked for me. Factor in that the fact that the other sub gets to stay too... No matter what the reasons and the validity behind them, being excluded feels unpleasant. I feel like I am the kind of person who can be prevented from drop by adequate (for me) immediate aftercare - as I received from my previous Dom. Therefore drop for me can be prevented and it wouldn't simply delay it for a few days later. Regarding dinner, this happened within only 5-10 mins of us playing, and the way she offered for me to come felt very forced/awkward (as in, I felt she was making a point of showing me that my presence for such - literally as they were getting dressed less than ten mins after we stopped having sex - was suddenly not needed nor assumed. So being with them didn't feel like aftercare for me, because I didn't feel wanted. I don't know if that makes sense. A forced invitation doesn't make you feel valued and cared about, and for myself, I need to feel cared about for aftercare to work.
And no, I didn't go back to the friend's in the end. The only people I wanted to be around at that point were the ones that had brought me into subspace in the first place. I wanted to wind down, whereas being with someone external and who I don't know very well would make me feel even more drained (lovely as the friend is). I also don't enjoy the feeling that I am lumbering someone with my presence. So the whole thing just doesn't make me feel valued at all.
My only defence to the bringing-to-table part is that I'm still quite new (only had a handful of scenes prior to this, and I didn't realise how much I need aftercare). Whilst I would agree, I think that responsibility was also on her as well as me. It does surprise me that an experienced Dom/me could not enquire about the aftercare needs of their sub. I'm not suggesting it is solely a Dom/me's responsibility (not at all), but I do think they share it. Plus, she knew that I have very little experience anyway and so perhaps am not all that clued up about the importance of aftercare for a lot of people.
Fair point.
My point with the teacher analogy was merely that when you enter into a certain role, it is unreasonable to shirk the responsibilities that don't appeal to you. I understand though that we have quite different perceptions of what our responsibilities as a Dom or a couple entails.
I agree on finding the topic interesting. I so, so wish more research has been conducted in this area, and other BDSM related topics.
I won't pretend to be that knowledgeable about polyamory, as whilst I want to explore that, I haven't yet. Though I do think that whilst someone may be more important/heirarchies may exist, I don't think it excuses treating people as such. For example with the other couples I mentioned, I never felt on the outside, lesser or like the other partner's needs were being prioritised at the expense of mine. I don't feel I am asking for special treatment, just equal treatment.
Well, the sub doesn't live that close to us, and so they only see each other every couple of months or so. I am reluctant to suggest meeting one on one as she has not expressed an interest in this, and certainly because of the fact that I was sent home earlier than the other sub (self-respect and all of that). Besides that, we have been keeping in-touch on text on/off, as well as on social media. But no actual meets (though there has been suggestion of me helping her out with something next week). I am hesitant to chase her myself, because of the fact she rarely sees the sub and the way the scene ended.
Thanks, I think voicing positives is an important point. And yes, goals would perhaps be a good think to think about. Thing is, if I am not permitted to stay for a while, I am strongly opposed to the idea of having PIV sex with the other sub. This may appear childish, but I have never liked the idea of having that degree of intimacy with someone who is unprepared to spend non-sexual time with me (such as letting me stay over the night, if we have sex in the evening) (and no we didn't have that during our first scene as it just didn't come about). I just don't like it and I'm not interested in the used feelings I will get as a result under these conditions.
I think I have a lot to negotiate with her, but it does look like a compromise could potentially be reached.
< Message edited by gnathic -- 3/2/2017 3:32:38 PM >
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RE: Don't know what to do about this situation - 
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