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Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 2:52:12 PM   
jlf1961


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This is a term that seems to be the current favorite of one of our posters, and after reading a number of articles by political reporters, it seems that the alt left is nothing more than a red herring and strawman, at least as far as the media goes.

The media on both sides of the aisle.

The AltLeft.com website brands itself as the "The left wing of the AltRight."

The term doesn't show up in the news until around March of last year, and then in an article from Liberty News Hour Donald Trump’s Ego: America’s Last Hope.

And that is the first it shows up ANYWHERE in the news, at the bottom of the 29th page of a search on googlenews search.

And yet the alt left is alleged to have screamed about the patriot acts?

Sean Lawson, a contributor for Forbes magazine, a well known Conservative publication, postulates that there really is no alt left

quote:

A search of Google News for the term reveals few mentions of the term prior to the fall of last year. A closer look indicates that if there is an "alt-left" at all, it seems to actually be a creation/variation of the Alt-Right. There is an AltLeft.com website, in fact. But it bills itself as "The left wing of the AltRight."

An article at International Business Times noted the conservative origins of the term "alt-left" back in December, saying

Unlike the alt-right, there aren't many folks calling themselves a part of the alt-left. It's a term in direct response to the attention placed on the alt-right, a group with whom many Republicans would rather not be associated. In a move seemingly aimed at countering the bad press the alt-right brings, members of the GOP and others have taken to labeling Democrats "alt-left" if they consider them extremely liberal.

[...]

The term originated with alt-right sites like World Net Daily, migrated to Fox News' Sean Hannity and eventually landed with the president-elect himself.
Source



And when it came time to renew the Patriot Acts, the leading voice against it was none other than Rand Paul, the equally far right leaning son of Ron Paul, a noted Libertarian/Republican.

When the Patriot Acts were first passed, it was done with the support of Dems and Republicans, with the major out cry coming from the ACLU, who seem to have a hard time figuring out just what the hell they do believe in (I have seen ACLU lawyers argue cases that are both pro right and pro left over the last 30 plus years, including some that supported Bundy in his fight against the BLM.)

While the alt right is attributed to the tea party movement (and I am not sure this is actually the case,) the alt left (if it exists as a movement at all) seems to be nothing more than a bunch of idiots unsure of what exactly they need to make a stand on at all.

Worse, the violent acts attributed to the alt left during the recent protests at two colleges, actually seem to be neither the alt left or alt right, but a bunch of morons who seem to be a completely independent group of anarchists, noted for showing up wearing black and, at least according to one witness, seemed to antagonize both conservatives and liberals with the intent of starting violence to cover some agenda of its own.

This type of activity is nothing new, it happened during the LA riots following the Rodney King verdict. A few individuals pushed what started out as a peaceful protest over the edge with the intent to go on a looting rampage.

In fact, it is extremely easy to turn a peaceful protest violent with the right push.



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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 3:08:09 PM   
DaddySatyr


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I'd explain, but based upon some of the phrases in your post, which I'm assuming are your'n since they're neither in quotes nor attributed, it seems to me your mind is already made up.

Suffice it to say: it's been growing in this country for 50-60 years and the long, slow, pernicious infiltration is just starting to be noticed.



Michael


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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 3:16:25 PM   
Musicmystery


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Uh-huh.


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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 3:29:49 PM   
MrRodgers


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I don't think there is any real specificity to the use of the term. If I must find some people we can label, it just may be the most vocal and passionate left that want to at least wake up the rest of the left and maybe some independents and fence-sitters to try to get them all to the poles come 2018.

Similar to what the T-Party did to some on the right but toward apathetic people (voters) center/left, rather than repubs already in office that didn't toe-the-line. Like the ones that held posters that read 'Get govt. out of my life but don't touch my Soc. Sec or Medicare' all while being told that great fallacy of modern times, even though those two programs that are paid for...are most responsible for gov. borrowing.

Unfortunately with today's right, it is becoming increasingly difficult to tell just what it is they want, never having fulfilled their post WWII creed of small, fiscally responsible, limited govt.

The alt.left could be a right wing strawman so as to deflect direct criticism of the main stream left that could arouse them into finding their real voice and their way to the polls come 11/18. However, it is all still very possible with most so tired of all the commentary and labels that as likely once again, about or less than 1/2 of the eligible voters...will come out.



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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 3:39:05 PM   
Musicmystery


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It's a made up term, a convenient straw man.

I don't know ANYONE anywhere on the left who uses or identifies with the silly term.

Progressive, yes. Activist, yes. Social justice promoter, yes. Advocate for this issue or that issue or group, yes.

Alt-left? A fiction.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 3:50:28 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'd explain, but based upon some of the phrases in your post, which I'm assuming are your'n since they're neither in quotes nor attributed, it seems to me your mind is already made up.

Suffice it to say: it's been growing in this country for 50-60 years and the long, slow, pernicious infiltration is just starting to be noticed.



Michael


I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 4:11:19 PM   
bounty44


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I wonder if that's another way of saying "this aint your fathers democratic party?"

by the way---I am loooooooooathing bob beckel.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 4:41:24 PM   
Kirata


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A search for "alt-left" on Wikipedia redirects here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

K.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 5:02:07 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?



Fuck naming them. Changing the very fabric of what are written into the bedrock of our foundation has taken (at least) 100 years. By necessity, it has had to be a very gradual endeavor lest the "blow-back" create more conservatives (in the sense of people who are tentative about change) just by their own efforts.

They exist and, unfortunately as bounty, pretty much, pointed out; they're called "Democrats" today.

It's funny. I just did a whole piece on this issue, this week (It's "in the can" and waiting to go public). The socialist/communists have succeeded in undermining some very important aspects of our society and a good portion of the people don't even recognize it as such.



Michael


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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 5:06:07 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wonder if that's another way of saying "this aint your fathers democratic party?"



Yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

by the way---I am loooooooooathing bob beckel.



I've seen him do (a few times) what that piece of shit, Juan Williams has NEVER done ... admit he's wrong on occasion.

Maybe I just have a soft spot in my heart for a recovering drunk/drug addict? I guess that could be the answer. I'll 'fess up to that.



Michael


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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 5:48:59 PM   
Aylee


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It is likely true that there is no alt-left. Just the left with its violence as usual. They want a repeat of the violence of the 70's. It is sad really.

https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/

quote:

Days of Rage is important, because this stuff is forgotten and it shouldn’t be. The 1970s underground wasn’t small. It was hundreds of people becoming urban guerrillas. Bombing buildings: the Pentagon, the Capitol, courthouses, restaurants, corporations. Robbing banks. Assassinating police. People really thought that revolution was imminent, and thought violence would bring it about.
One thing that Burrough returns to in Days of Rage, over and over and over, is how forgotten so much of this stuff is. Puerto Rican separatists bombed NYC like 300 times, killed people, shot up Congress, tried to kill POTUS (Truman). Nobody remembers it.
Also, people don’t want to remember how much leftist violence was actively supported by mainstream leftist infrastructure. I’ll say this much for righty terrorist Eric Rudolph: the sonofabitch was caught dumpster-diving in a rare break from hiding in the woods. During his fugitive days, Weatherman’s Bill Ayers was on a nice houseboat paid for by radical lawyers.


And then of course he helped a fellow leftist take the Whitehouse.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 5:53:42 PM   
bounty44


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i appreciate your latter comment...and I also agree its an attractive quality to be able to admit when one's wrong, but my goodness he's such an incredibly obnoxious person who struggles with critical thinking and has major problems controlling his temper. so much so in fact, that the past couple of times ive watched the show with him on it, he reminds me of a couple of people here.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 6:05:22 PM   
longwayhome


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?



Fuck naming them. Changing the very fabric of what are written into the bedrock of our foundation has taken (at least) 100 years. By necessity, it has had to be a very gradual endeavor lest the "blow-back" create more conservatives (in the sense of people who are tentative about change) just by their own efforts.

They exist and, unfortunately as bounty, pretty much, pointed out; they're called "Democrats" today.

It's funny. I just did a whole piece on this issue, this week (It's "in the can" and waiting to go public). The socialist/communists have succeeded in undermining some very important aspects of our society and a good portion of the people don't even recognize it as such.



Michael



Socialists and communists have undermined important aspects of US society? Really?

Not making a value judgement about the relative ills of the right or left wing in the US but either we're getting a bit hysterically Mccarthyist or you guys have a very peculiar definition of socialism and communism in the US.

I think that, despite the conspiracy obsessed political dialogue in the US, even most Democrats would find the centre left in Europe dangerously subversive, even though they are only vaguely socialist much of the time.

So I'm not going to argue that you guys would like the left in Europe, the continent that gave the world socialism, but I've got to tell you that even Bernie Sanders looked pretty tame to most on the left in Europe.

Not sure how the US should label its left wing, but socialist and communist it aint.

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 6:50:13 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?



Fuck naming them. Changing the very fabric of what are written into the bedrock of our foundation has taken (at least) 100 years. By necessity, it has had to be a very gradual endeavor lest the "blow-back" create more conservatives (in the sense of people who are tentative about change) just by their own efforts.

They exist and, unfortunately as bounty, pretty much, pointed out; they're called "Democrats" today.

It's funny. I just did a whole piece on this issue, this week (It's "in the can" and waiting to go public). The socialist/communists have succeeded in undermining some very important aspects of our society and a good portion of the people don't even recognize it as such.



Michael



Socialists and communists have undermined important aspects of US society? Really?

Not making a value judgement about the relative ills of the right or left wing in the US but either we're getting a bit hysterically Mccarthyist or you guys have a very peculiar definition of socialism and communism in the US.

I think that, despite the conspiracy obsessed political dialogue in the US, even most Democrats would find the centre left in Europe dangerously subversive, even though they are only vaguely socialist much of the time.

So I'm not going to argue that you guys would like the left in Europe, the continent that gave the world socialism, but I've got to tell you that even Bernie Sanders looked pretty tame to most on the left in Europe.

Not sure how the US should label its left wing, but socialist and communist it aint.


Just off of the top of my head, radical alt leftists here (aka Democrats) pepper sprays women dissenters, savages old people who disagree... And otherwise violently impedes free speech and political rallies. Riots at town hall meetings to disrupt the democratic process... Their Black Lies Matter terrorist group has been assassinating police officers... Just a few posts up Aylee posted about how Obama's terrorist friends used to run amok in the 1970s, killing people and bombing whoever they didn't like

How much more radical does it have to be, before we can declare them somewhere other than middle-of-the-road, laid back undecided moderates

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 8:27:09 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?



Fuck naming them. Changing the very fabric of what are written into the bedrock of our foundation has taken (at least) 100 years. By necessity, it has had to be a very gradual endeavor lest the "blow-back" create more conservatives (in the sense of people who are tentative about change) just by their own efforts.

They exist and, unfortunately as bounty, pretty much, pointed out; they're called "Democrats" today.

It's funny. I just did a whole piece on this issue, this week (It's "in the can" and waiting to go public). The socialist/communists have succeeded in undermining some very important aspects of our society and a good portion of the people don't even recognize it as such.



Michael


See, that's the problem with labels and attacks without what I would regard as any real foundation. The bedrock of the country's foundation is nothing at all like the right of today...not even close. Both Hamilton and Jefferson would have a stroke if they saw the right of today.

First, if you go back 100 years, you run right smack dab into the middle of republican progressivism where you'd find support for child labor laws, the Sherman anti-trust act, women's suffrage, even as late as 1956 after decades of opposing some of FDR's moves, the repubs supported, enhanced labor protection such as making it easier to join a union, greater and further unemployment insurance and extending the minimum wage...the list goes on.

Then you can continue use the words if you wish but socialist/communist does not apply to but a very few of the left in the US and almost no democratic pol.

The left of today is the left...not the alt.left whatever that is.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 8:31:35 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wonder if that's another way of saying "this aint your fathers democratic party?"

by the way---I am loooooooooathing bob beckel.

No, it isn't. The dems of the past and even into the 30's were racist, Jim Crow, bo weevil, SOB's called Dixiecrats whose only redeeming quality was in some cases, siding with FDR who with a stroke of his pen...created 3 million jobs. Otherwise they were as much petty little power barons, concerned only with their own short term self interest as are they all...including the repubs.

Trouble is, the right of today has picked up their mantel.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 8:36:19 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I don't know man, if they even exist as you say, can they be all that pernicious or even very effective, if it took 50-60 years to even name them ?



Fuck naming them. Changing the very fabric of what are written into the bedrock of our foundation has taken (at least) 100 years. By necessity, it has had to be a very gradual endeavor lest the "blow-back" create more conservatives (in the sense of people who are tentative about change) just by their own efforts.

They exist and, unfortunately as bounty, pretty much, pointed out; they're called "Democrats" today.

It's funny. I just did a whole piece on this issue, this week (It's "in the can" and waiting to go public). The socialist/communists have succeeded in undermining some very important aspects of our society and a good portion of the people don't even recognize it as such.



Michael



Socialists and communists have undermined important aspects of US society? Really?

Not making a value judgement about the relative ills of the right or left wing in the US but either we're getting a bit hysterically Mccarthyist or you guys have a very peculiar definition of socialism and communism in the US.

I think that, despite the conspiracy obsessed political dialogue in the US, even most Democrats would find the centre left in Europe dangerously subversive, even though they are only vaguely socialist much of the time.

So I'm not going to argue that you guys would like the left in Europe, the continent that gave the world socialism, but I've got to tell you that even Bernie Sanders looked pretty tame to most on the left in Europe.

Not sure how the US should label its left wing, but socialist and communist it aint.


Just off of the top of my head, radical alt leftists here (aka Democrats) pepper sprays women dissenters, savages old people who disagree... And otherwise violently impedes free speech and political rallies. Riots at town hall meetings to disrupt the democratic process... Their Black Lies Matter terrorist group has been assassinating police officers... Just a few posts up Aylee posted about how Obama's terrorist friends used to run amok in the 1970s, killing people and bombing whoever they didn't like

How much more radical does it have to be, before we can declare them somewhere other than middle-of-the-road, laid back undecided moderates

Unmitigated bullshit...talk about fake news and alternative facts that are not even close to facts. Historically, and by definition that you can't change...it's been the right that's resorted to real violence.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 9:05:57 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Historically, and by definition that you can't change...it's been the right that's resorted to real violence.

I'm not equipped to argue the point, but Aylee posted a link that provides a fairly impressive summary of leftist violence:

https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/

Maybe you'd care to do the same? Because otherwise all we have is your say so, and you know which file that goes into.

K.


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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 11:15:57 PM   
heavyblinker


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Well, this thread went exactly as anyone could have predicted.

You can't be 'alt' if you belong to/follow/support a mainstream political party. The whole purpose of 'alt-right' was to separate neocon Republicans from 'classic conservative' Republicans. You can't be 'alt' if you're mainstream. I don't think Trump has actually legitimized the alt-right/Euro-fascist shit yet, but when he does, then the GOP will be a fascist party, and the neocons will be the new alt-right.

It doesn't matter what you think about the Democrats, they are the mainstream left in the US. An 'alt-left' would be an alternative to that. ALT = ALTERNATIVE.

The fact that the Dems are still way to the right of many right wing parties in most other western democracies but are still considered radical extremists by some GOPers means that said GOPers are ignorant, and they should probably be written off as hopeless.

BoscoX and other RWNJ idiots like to say 'alt-left' because of the alt-right's reputation-- they want to pretend that modern day Democrats are irrational extremists who want to tear down American values and turn America into some sort of Soviet/Banana Republic nightmare. They want to group all leftists together and pretend it's just some mindless mass, programmed by the media to commit horrible acts of violence against poor innocent Trump supporters who never do anything wrong ever.

I'll tell you what the 'alt-left' really is-- it is a word that helps you identify stupid people, because they are the only ones who earnestly use it.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 3/8/2017 11:21:38 PM >

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RE: Just what is the alt left? - 3/8/2017 11:27:02 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Unmitigated bullshit...talk about fake news and alternative facts that are not even close to facts. Historically, and by definition that you can't change...it's been the right that's resorted to real violence.



Just within my memory ... I'm wondering if you're talking about those ebil righties that caused all the rioting and violence in Watts, Ca. or in Selma and Birmingham Al. when Dr. King and his movement was growing or the righties that caused all the rioting while protesting the Vietnam War?

Oh, wait! Maybe it was that well-known, right-wing environmentalist, The Unabomber?

Or Stalin? Mao?

Right-wing nut jobs; every last one of 'em!



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/8/2017 11:32:44 PM >


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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