Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Seriously? How in the world is this justified?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Seriously? How in the world is this justified? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 6:30:45 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
Okay, the federal hiring freeze enacted by President Trump has some unforseen problems...

Namely child care for active duty military personnel.

It seems that due to the freeze, the US military cannot hire people to staff child care/child development centers for active duty military personnel and their spouses.

Okay, we need to get federal spending under control....

So, just where does the cost to the federal government to maintain security for members of Trump's family who are not living in the White House, such as his wife come into play?

When Trump is in residence at Trump tower, it is a million a day.

When it is just his wife and minor children it is hundreds of thousands of dollars a day.

Source

When you consider an E5 with 8 years in service gets $36,444 a year, and with three dependents, wife, two kids it comes to $38,563.

Now that total pay puts them just over $1000 above the poverty line, so they do not qualify for any assistance, however, without on post child care, that thousand bucks will vanish quickly if the non military spouse decides to work (as many do at this income level.)

Now, throw in the fact that military families have a tendency to move, per the requirements of the service, most employers are not going to put a military dependent spouse in a full time job with good pay and benefits just to lose them in a year or two.

So folks, in order to save money, we are going to shut down child care facilities for military dependent families AND spend a shit ton because the first Lady prefers the luxury of Trump Tower over the white house.

And people bitched about Obama's wife and kids taking vacations, that it turns out, he paid for when it went past the state visit already scheduled.

Personally, I think the expense should be billed to Trump, not the federal government.

And yes, I think that Mrs. Obama's side trips' included security should have been billed to the Obama's not the federal government.

In point of fact, and it is my opinion, the elaborate protective details that the President (any president) enjoys is a bit over the top. The upgraded protection for the private residences even when the sitting president is not there is expensive and unnecessary. What the hell is so vitally important that a ranch house or a house in Hawaii needs round the clock secret service details when the president isnt even there?

I am quite certain that money could be spent constructively else where.

I mean there are military hospitals that are over crowded, dependent health care has suffered in the last two decades or more, the VA health care system is a joke...

And it is a known fact that there are private specialized VIP security firms that can do the job cheaper and with the technology they have available, probably a hell of a lot better, at least when the president is not there.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 6:49:26 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
Fake News. The child care workers were exempt from the hiring freeze. There is also paperwork that can be filed to exempt them IF they had not already been exempt.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 6:55:37 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Fake News.


Pentagon Outlines Civilian Jobs Exempt From Trump Hiring Freeze

quote:

Work defined the 16 exempted jobs as follows:

...

• Positions providing child care to the children of military personnel.

• Positions at the installation level providing direct support to the prevention of child abuse, sexual assault, domestic violence and suicide and providing direct support to those affected.

...


You've been "handled" by the "Democratic Coalition Against Trump". This is propaganda, plain and simple.

Now that you know that they have shamelessly lied to you, about an easily discovered fact, does that make you more or less likely to trust anything they have to say in the future?

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/8/2017 6:56:56 PM >


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 7:28:47 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline


Image source: Politicususa

Distribution: Website
Website: www.politicususa.com
Bias: left bias political

Politics USA publishes information from a left biased position with an advocacy for liberal causes. The editorial content and headlines are often loaded with strong words to appeal to emotions and stereotypes. They may publish misleading reports, cite unverified sources, reference bogus reports and omit information that may damage their cause. The information provided should be regarded as speculative opinion and/or propaganda. It is among the most untrustworthy sources in the media.
~Source

Politicususa? Seriously?

President Trump on Monday ordered an across-the-board employment freeze for the federal government, halting hiring for all new and existing positions except those in national security, public safety and the military. ~NY Times

The Army on late Wednesday issued a statement that, as previously specified in Defense Department guidance, Army child care providers are exempt from the hiring freeze and child care will continue without interruption. ~MilitaryTimes

Thanks for playing.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 8:03:40 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
so, what about this?


Or there is There is this....

quote:

APPROVAL NEEDED

Defense Department guidance issued Feb. 1 specifically exempts “Positions providing child care to the children of military personnel.” However, the service branches still must seek approval to hire workers to fill those positions when they become vacant, said DoD spokesman Johnny Michael.

DoD is aware that bases including Fort Knox and Wiesbaden have announced child care cuts, Michael said, and officials "are working through the chain of command with these installations to ensure that they are taking advantage of the ability to seek exemptions."

Defense News
Want to fill a DoD civilian job? Here’s how you get a waiver to Trump’s freeze
New processes for obtaining such exemptions may create hiring delays, Michael said, which could lead to staffing shortages even in exempted areas.


The point being, that due to the requirement to fill out the necessary waivers to hire such personnel (which, if I am not mistaken, would add to the normal work load of military personnel who do this, thus increasing cost) which will, as admitted, lead to longer times to fill these positions, which again, means that people are stuck with no child care, the additional cost for the first lady living in New York in security expenses is justified?

When the whole idea was to cut federal spending?

Of course, everyone is missing the key point.

Why the fuck are the taxpayers footing the bill for security in, what has been advertised, as one of the most secure buildings in Manhattan?

Look, when Trump opened the building its security made much of the procedures utilized at the United Nations a freaking joke. The elevators to the residence floors require a coded key card to use, public access elevators to the same floors requires security to verify the person with the tenet or management.

Hell, the place is more secure than the white house itself.

Seriously, the security for Obama's Hawaiian residence had to be in place when he was not there, at a cost of $300k per week.
The cost for security at President Bush's ranch in Crawford Tx when he was not there was $260k.

My point being is simple.

Why the fuck do you need a full secret service security detail at homes when the president is not there, and why the fuck do you need a full detail in a building that makes security at the white house look like Barney Fife is in charge?

For that matter, why do former presidents even need a full detail? What possible security problem does the former president even pose? Its not like he has access to current security information OR the nuclear launch codes?

Besides, considering the Fuck up Obama was, why would anyone want to take the sucker out for a big mac, let alone anything else?

He got a peace prize for nothing, except that he was the first black American President.

The problem, is that the hiring freeze, while exempting some jobs, is that it added to work loads, which in and of itself, increases cost.

So, child care workers are exempt.

Okay

So, you have to file a shit ton of paper work to get those exemptions, which takes time to process on top of the time it takes to clear the individual to actually work on post.

And, you cannot start the back ground checks while waiting for the exemptions.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 8:21:03 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
All President's homes get a security detail. Why does it bother you now?

As far as how much security a person or place receives, that is up to the Secret Service, I believe.

Edited to add:

No, there is no paperwork to fill out. I just said that there were ways of exempting with paperwork if they had not already been exempted. The hiring freeze automatically exempted the child care workers. No additional paperwork needed.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 8:23:06 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Defense News
Want to fill a DoD civilian job? Here’s how you get a waiver to Trump’s freeze
New processes for obtaining such exemptions may create hiring delays, Michael said, which could lead to staffing shortages even in exempted areas.

The point being, that due to the requirement to fill out the necessary waivers to hire such personnel (which, if I am not mistaken, would add to the normal work load of military personnel who do this, thus increasing cost) which will, as admitted, lead to longer times to fill these positions, which again, means that people are stuck with no child care, the additional cost for the first lady living in New York in security expenses is justified?

Excuse me, but "may" and "could" doesn't mean "will, as admitted," and the hiring process has always been an issue anyway.

“The process of hiring CDC personnel is lengthy and arduous," wrote Joyce Raezer, executive director of the National Military Family Association . . . "It can be difficult for CDC directors to find, hire, and put into place qualified staff” . . . That process is complicated by the fact that people don’t want to wait for the background checks and they need to seek employment elsewhere. ~MilitaryTimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, everyone is missing the key point.

I think it's pretty clear that the "key point" was to gin up a case by any means possible.

So folks, in order to save money, we are going to shut down child care facilities for military dependent families AND spend a shit ton because the first Lady prefers the luxury of Trump Tower over the white house.

Yeah, that must be it. How could it be anything else?

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/8/2017 8:48:07 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 8:50:29 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

so, what about this?


Or there is There is this....

quote:

APPROVAL NEEDED

Defense Department guidance issued Feb. 1 specifically exempts “Positions providing child care to the children of military personnel.” However, the service branches still must seek approval to hire workers to fill those positions when they become vacant, said DoD spokesman Johnny Michael.

DoD is aware that bases including Fort Knox and Wiesbaden have announced child care cuts, Michael said, and officials "are working through the chain of command with these installations to ensure that they are taking advantage of the ability to seek exemptions."

Defense News
Want to fill a DoD civilian job? Here’s how you get a waiver to Trump’s freeze
New processes for obtaining such exemptions may create hiring delays, Michael said, which could lead to staffing shortages even in exempted areas.


The point being, that due to the requirement to fill out the necessary waivers to hire such personnel (which, if I am not mistaken, would add to the normal work load of military personnel who do this, thus increasing cost) which will, as admitted, lead to longer times to fill these positions, which again, means that people are stuck with no child care, the additional cost for the first lady living in New York in security expenses is justified?

When the whole idea was to cut federal spending?

Of course, everyone is missing the key point.

Why the fuck are the taxpayers footing the bill for security in, what has been advertised, as one of the most secure buildings in Manhattan?

Look, when Trump opened the building its security made much of the procedures utilized at the United Nations a freaking joke. The elevators to the residence floors require a coded key card to use, public access elevators to the same floors requires security to verify the person with the tenet or management.

Hell, the place is more secure than the white house itself.

Seriously, the security for Obama's Hawaiian residence had to be in place when he was not there, at a cost of $300k per week.
The cost for security at President Bush's ranch in Crawford Tx when he was not there was $260k.

My point being is simple.

Why the fuck do you need a full secret service security detail at homes when the president is not there, and why the fuck do you need a full detail in a building that makes security at the white house look like Barney Fife is in charge?

For that matter, why do former presidents even need a full detail? What possible security problem does the former president even pose? Its not like he has access to current security information OR the nuclear launch codes?

Besides, considering the Fuck up Obama was, why would anyone want to take the sucker out for a big mac, let alone anything else?

He got a peace prize for nothing, except that he was the first black American President.

The problem, is that the hiring freeze, while exempting some jobs, is that it added to work loads, which in and of itself, increases cost.

So, child care workers are exempt.

Okay

So, you have to file a shit ton of paper work to get those exemptions, which takes time to process on top of the time it takes to clear the individual to actually work on post.

And, you cannot start the back ground checks while waiting for the exemptions.

Come on Jlf, you know thew Military Times is a leftist fake news rag.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 8:58:33 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Come on Jlf, you know thew Military Times is a leftist fake news rag.

Did anyone suggest that it was, or are you just trying on your new clown suit?

K.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 9:09:35 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Defense News
Want to fill a DoD civilian job? Here’s how you get a waiver to Trump’s freeze
New processes for obtaining such exemptions may create hiring delays, Michael said, which could lead to staffing shortages even in exempted areas.

The point being, that due to the requirement to fill out the necessary waivers to hire such personnel (which, if I am not mistaken, would add to the normal work load of military personnel who do this, thus increasing cost) which will, as admitted, lead to longer times to fill these positions, which again, means that people are stuck with no child care, the additional cost for the first lady living in New York in security expenses is justified?

Excuse me, but "may" and "could" doesn't mean "will, as admitted," and the hiring process has always been an issue anyway.

“The process of hiring CDC personnel is lengthy and arduous," wrote Joyce Raezer, executive director of the National Military Family Association . . . "It can be difficult for CDC directors to find, hire, and put into place qualified staff” . . . That process is complicated by the fact that people don’t want to wait for the background checks and they need to seek employment elsewhere. ~MilitaryTimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, everyone is missing the key point.

I think it's pretty clear that the "key point" was to gin up a case by any means possible.

So folks, in order to save money, we are going to shut down child care facilities for military dependent families AND spend a shit ton because the first Lady prefers the luxury of Trump Tower over the white house.

Yeah, that must be it. How could it be anything else?

K.



So the hiring freeze isn't a hiring freeze for the military but has caused more paperwork which means more hiring or no, but longer waits and it all...makes no difference.

Do I have it right ? I mean we know there is no hiring freeze for govt. contractors which in many cases costs the taxpayer more. And the first lady always stays in a condo, not the white house and.....and.....wait for it...a Trump Co, provides security for who now...Trump ?

Hey it's all business as usual...except it ain't.

$500,000 or $1 million a Day in NY...take your pick. NY is billing the feds for oh $20-$35 million and they ain't done yet. and his private security...is slow. Could soon hit $88 million.

HERE

You can't make this stuff up.

But don't worry, Trump planned to eliminate both the NEA and the National Endowment for the Humanities...to pay for it all. No extra costs folks just no more NEA or NEH. After all, the first lady and her digs are more important.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/8/2017 9:10:09 PM >


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/8/2017 9:23:26 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You can't make this stuff up.

You got that right. Anything to attack Trump, even complaining about protection for the First Family. If I thought there was a bottom, and I'm not sure I ever did, I stand corrected now.

K.


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Seriously? How in the world is this justified? - 3/9/2017 2:09:35 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You can't make this stuff up.

You got that right. Anything to attack Trump, even complaining about protection for the First Family. If I thought there was a bottom, and I'm not sure I ever did, I stand corrected now.

K.





K, the complaint I leveled, IF you had bothered to pay attention is at the added expense due to the fact that Trump's wife does not want to live in the white house and her residence is known to be one of the most secure in the neighborhood. It's basic security exceeds that of many government buildings, which is exactly why the wealthy want to live there.

So, putting a full sized security detail in a building that has probably the best reputation for security (the white house has suffered more security breaches than Trump tower) is an expense that makes no sense.

A full detail for the first lady is close to a hundred agents.

Trump Tower already has armed security, some of the best in the business.

So why not an abbreviated detail?

Also I listed a few points about security at places when the president is not even there, and full details for former presidents.

See the issue?

How about we put it another way.

If Mrs. Trump does not want to stay in the white house, then fine, it is her prerogative. And since that is her decision, how about Trump pay the additional security cost?

As far as presidential security goes, the United States president has the most security of any world leader.

Okay, when he is in office, fine.

However, when it comes to a former president, with the exception of agents running along side the limo, the detail is the same fucking size. At a million a day, dont you think that is a bit much for a guy that no longer has access to anything remotely sensitive? Now granted a former president can opt to have the detail dropped, or minimized, and the last president to do so was Carter.

The prime minister of Great Britain doesn't have half the security detail as the president does, and he has access to nuke launch codes. The same is true for every nation in NATO.

In fact, the biggest expense to the taxpayer when it comes to the President is not only his personal detail, but the extensive security details kept at residences whether he is there or not.

First thing Trump said was he wanted to cut government spending in unnecessary areas.

Fine, so why cant he cover the cost for security for his wife who will not live in the white house?

However, as I said, Trump Tower, since its opening has had less security issues than the white house in the same period. The only way any one can get to the first family in that building is by flying a plane into it.

I did not say remove the detail, I said let him pay for it.

Mrs. Obama paid for the added expense of her trips that went past the state visits, and people still bitched.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 3/9/2017 2:24:16 AM >


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 12
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Seriously? How in the world is this justified? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078