quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Fear is used all the time as a form of control and it's not always a type of abuse. And everyone is consenting to it. For most, it's a fear of disappointment. Nothing is worse to a submissive then being a disappointment to their Doms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Fear is used all the time as a form of control and it's not always a type of abuse. And everyone is consenting to it. For most, it's a fear of disappointment. Nothing is worse to a submissive then being a disappointment to their Doms.

Here my friend, I have to disagree in part. As I stated in my post and you have reinforced that the rear of dissapointing or to be Gorean the rear of eing found displeasing is certainly a great fear for a slave. However I do not accept that it is used per se all the time to control a slave. I know the times when my initial reaction has been one of displeasure that a slave has crumpled at my feet. I have learned to watch my reactions ad words when I find something displeasing. For it is a fact that some one Free or not so free may do some thing to suprise me or to complete some task as best they are able or know how and yet this may fall short for the simple reason I have not communicated by wishes sufficiently or they do not have the ability to do what I have wanted. In many of these cases the slave has overheard me commenting that I need to get this or that done by a certain time. I larnd the hard way that whilst most slaves I know are very resiliant and tough people they are also extreemly fragile regarding their pleasing of a Master where a single frown can reduce them to tears. If a slave fails me in some way, yes she will be told that I am not pleased but I may also tell her that I am pleased with her efforts.. There needs to be ballance in such matters. But to use her fear of failure as a spur or method of controling her is not something I perfer to do.... There are better ways..

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIslostsoul

In reply to Noah:

i ask because i have had the experience of my fear of clowns and spiders used to make others laugh and the Dom taking pleasure in watching me have panic attacks and other things that could cause permanent mental and physical harm. I am wondering if this is common place or if this person is just a sadist heartless bastard. I am no longer with T/them and started hating T/them soon after that took place because it was early in the relationship and it was not something agreeded on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIslostsoul

Sirs,

Do any of you use Your sub or slaves fears (phobias) to control them or for any other reason against them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIslostsoul

In reply to Noah:

i ask because i have had the experience of my fear of clowns and spiders used to make others laugh and the Dom taking pleasure in watching me have panic attacks and other things that could cause permanent mental and physical harm. I am wondering if this is common place or if this person is just a sadist heartless bastard. I am no longer with T/them and started hating T/them soon after that took place because it was early in the relationship and it was not something agreeded on.

You say sadistic heartless bastard like it's a bad thing.

Well, I'm not into gratuitous heartlessness, though behaving in a heartless manner can in some kinds of cases be instrumental to a good.

Something very much like what you describe could occur between consenting adults. Even done right it would be way too edgey for most of the people who frequent this place and that's fine. A lot of people don't even seem to recognize the emotional S&M that they dabble in for what it is. Furthermore they disclaim any interest or desire in that sort of thing generally, which again is fine as far as it goes though the refusal or failure to recognize and name what one is busy with is something I don't personally think highly of..

We haven't heard the other side of your story but taking your account at face value it doesn't sound consensual or even well constructed. It sounds fucked up (in a bad way) so good for you for being out of it.

As for it not being agreed on, I think that partners need to be clear about their approach to consent.

Here some possible views a person could take:
(all of them are questionable in my opinion)

X. "If it isn't specifically ruled out, it is fair game."

Y. "If it isn't specifically allowed, it is prohibitted."

Z. "If it is on a limits list it is forbidden for all time."

Q. "If it is on a limits list and you don't prod me there eventually I'll begin to conclude that you are a lame-ass dom and I'll dig deeper and deeper into my big bag of passive-aggressive manipulative bullshit until I've made both of our lives living hell because, well, I'm a masochist, right? I mean someone's gotta hurt me and I'm way too self-absorbed to be concerned about collateral damage. But then after you've overthrown three or four items from my limits list without any negotiation and after I've told you I adore you for being so Domly about it, when you go after limit number five the very same way I'll blow a gasket, call the cops, out you to your Moose Lodge and make a career out of ruining your reputation in any corner of the kink community I can think of. (No, thank God I've never been anywhere NEAR this catastrophe but having spent some time in venues like CM I get the impression that it is happening somewhere at any given moment.)

If you told a guy that you are an X type person (from the list above) and if you didn't rule out spider and clown "play", and if you went on and on about how hard core you are and how you wanted him to expand your limits and take you to the outer limits of kink and you wanted to surrender all your rights and blah blah woof woof, and if you relished other treatment that from his point of view could be seen to be pretty analogous to this spider and clown malarkey, well then I hope you'd take a larger degree of responsibility for what eventually happened.

Not that I suppose that it happened just that way in your case. I'm just sayin'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

aw come on.  If someone has a friggin phobia about something that causes them to have panic attacks, you dont go near it;  not in the name of dominance, not in the name of her masochist needs, not in the name of pushing a limit, not in the name of any fucking thing.  Please!  

edited for a typo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

aw come on.  If someone has a friggin phobia about something that causes them to have panic attacks, you dont go near it;  not in the name of dominance, not in the name of her masochist needs, not in the name of pushing a limit, not in the name of any fucking thing.  Please!  

edited for a typo

Which is to say that your kink is okay and mine is .... what, exactly?

A lot of people--maybe most people--feel the same way about heavy physical S&M that you seem to about heavy psychological S&M.

A typical paraphrase might go like this:

aw come on.  If someone has a friggin cat o' nine tails that causes extreme pain and damages tissue and could leave scars or if you weren't careful could even debilitate someone, you don't go near it; not in the name of love, not in the name of kinky sex, not to make some disgusting pervert happy, not in the name of any fucking thing.  Please!  

Now just between us girls, marie, don't we both believe that the above statement would probably be undersigned by the majority of the people driving by your house tonight? I'll bet you engage in some things which would just horrify some of those people. Are you wrong therefore? Are you bad?

I think almost everyone should stay away from heavy physical S&M. My hunch is that it just isn't right for the majority of people and I don't see those people as any better or worse than me.

I think almost everyone should stay away from heavy psychological and emotional S&M too. All three of these kinks are dangerous. But like mountain climbing, sky diving and smoking cigarrettes I'm not standing up to decry anyone who proceeds with eyes wide open to find meaning and value in one of these things which I don't personally understand or appreciate.

I'm very much in favor of staying away from things one wants to stay away from.

For instance I try to stay away from telling intimately bonded pairs of adults I have never met how to conduct their their interpersonal relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIslostsoul

Sirs,

Do any of you use Your sub or slaves fears (phobias) to control them or for any other reason against them?