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Reluctant Dom - 7/25/2006 4:27:00 PM   
thegunslinger


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline 		I have recently collared my slave, and as such we have rules in place that show her submission to me.

The problem I've encountered, after some research is a fairly common one, it's the nice guy/good person syndrome. In life I'm a fairly easy going person that looks out for the feelings of others, through bondage and being a top I can finally assert myself and put my needs first. And I have a wonderful slave that will help me do that. The problem, I still look out for her feelings even when I'm the Master, and I feel bad enforcing rules I like even when we've both agreed that this is one of the ways she shows her submission, as mentioned above, and appreciates Me. Along with this I believe the rule system can strengthen My sometimes not so there assertiveness.

She tells me it's what she wants, and I believe her whole heartedly. There's some problem I can't seem to get over, looking out for her feelings and still trying to put her needs above my own.

Is there some sort of Dom training or exercises I can do? Anything to help Me out would be appreciated.




_____________________________

"The essence of domination is to take another's power and then use it for mutual pleasure." - John Warren
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/25/2006 4:49:51 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Gunslinger, and those to follow,

This seems akin to the notion that someone who plays with pain (which might or might not have anything to do with your relationship) who, when they declare their love for their partner, finds it difficult to give pain to that partner.  Ordinary society tells us that we're not supposed to hurt the person we love.

I can grasp the notion, but think about the reality.  What is real is that the two of you got to the position of being dom/sub or Master/slave because you each felt this need, met, and now here you are.  Why would you want to stop it?  Why would you want to jeopardize this wonderful thing you've found?  She doesn't want things to be any less.  If anything, she wants to feel even more assertion, more control, more emotional and psychological and possibly even physical confinement.

One thing that I learned a long time ago is this:  As a dom or a Master, it is vitally imperative that you always have the ability to take the action, the scene, the relationship slightly further than your partner wants it to.  That allows for growth, for the pushing of limits.  If your partner's limits are beyond yours, then the relationship has the possibility of stagnation.  Boredom, then resentment, steps in.  I don't believe you want that.

You have to find it within yourself to make things interesting.  You got to this position, presumably, by some sort of creativity in words and actions that made this woman wish to submit to you.  That creativity needs to continue, to flourish.  You don't necessarily have to dream up nasty, awful, perverse things to do to keep her on her toes, but wouldn't it be fun to anyway and see how she reacts?  It would be a lovely test for both of you.

Think outside the box you've created for yourself.  Have fun.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/25/2006 5:31:04 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

through bondage and being a top I can finally assert myself and put my needs first.


I consider this to be a fallacy perpetuated by the internet. I feel that you can place your desires before those of your submissive's, but continually ignoring the needs of either party will eventually destroy the relationship.

We're in these relationships because they make us happy. No one is happy having needs that are not met. I'll stress here that "needs" are different than desires or wants.

And finally, everyone has their own style. I know Doms that are agressive in everything they do. I know Doms that are polite and proper in public and absolute sadists in private. I know Doms that are warm and cuddly, who love to make a woman cry. So what if your style is different than what other people claim. Find what makes you both happy.



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/25/2006 6:08:55 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

There's some problem I can't seem to get over, looking out for her feelings and still trying to put her needs above my own.


I wish to address this very specific line in your OP.  You seem to consider that it would be Inappropriate for you to consider the feelings of your girl in the process of making decisions or appyling the rules of your relationship.  In fact, I do believe that most would consider this a valuable characteristic to have.  The only question is are you allowing her feelings to affect your responsibility?  This seems to be answered in the second part of your statement.  It is also possible that you not only putting her needs ahead of your own, but the relationship as well.  I would also consider that it is not wrong for you to make decisions at times that will put her needs ahead of your own.  It's really a question of where the need is greatest.  The important point to consider is... Who is making the decisions!

As the person responsible to make the decisions ... you need to do what is best for everyone.. including yourself.  If you can't make the tough choices or even put your choices first at times... then maybe you should reconsider your roll in the relationship.  Maybe you should ask her to make the decisions and see how that works for you.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/25/2006 6:21:54 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		As usual, You hit the nail on the head..or something like that..lol.  Imho, considering her feelings, as she considers Yours, is the mark of a healthy relationship.  i can't imagine being in a relationship with anyone who didn't want to know how i felt, even when he doesn't agree with me.  It helps all areas of a relationship when i know that i've been heard.  i'm also more likely to share that part of me keep hidden from the world if he's willing to share with me.  It's like the old saying, about how a "real" man doesn't cry, which i consider pure hogwash, and again, imho, this falls under that catagory.  Like KoM stated, it's only when or if you don't take your own wants and needs into consideration, that what she wants comes first and last, then i'd consider it a possible problem.

My suggestion is, at some point, You might want to talk this over with Your sub.  She might see things differently than You do.  The best tops i've ever met readily admit that there are things that they learn from their submissive partner, just as that partner learns from him/her.

Good luck and cheers,
jimini

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

There's some problem I can't seem to get over, looking out for her feelings and still trying to put her needs above my own.


I wish to address this very specific line in your OP.  You seem to consider that it would be Inappropriate for you to consider the feelings of your girl in the process of making decisions or appyling the rules of your relationship.  In fact, I do believe that most would consider this a valuable characteristic to have.  The only question is are you allowing her feelings to affect your responsibility?  This seems to be answered in the second part of your statement.  It is also possible that you not only putting her needs ahead of your own, but the relationship as well.  I would also consider that it is not wrong for you to make decisions at times that will put her needs ahead of your own.  It's really a question of where the need is greatest.  The important point to consider is... Who is making the decisions!

As the person responsible to make the decisions ... you need to do what is best for everyone.. including yourself.  If you can't make the tough choices or even put your choices first at times... then maybe you should reconsider your roll in the relationship.  Maybe you should ask her to make the decisions and see how that works for you.


_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 12:46:35 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		 Being a nice person doesn't preclude you from being a Dom. But it sounds like you are playing a role that your slave wants instead of being yourself.  

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 1:36:30 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Just ask her if you need to put her feelings on a par with yours ALL the time.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 5:28:09 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		As usual KoM makes a very important point.

What is the problem with 'taking her feelings into account'? You have a responsibility to the relationship. YOU are the one making the decisions that will shape and maintain that relationship. If you fail to take into account the needs and feelings of one of the people IN that relationship, you ain't going to have a relationship for very long.

Knowing what those feelings are is information, just one factor that you take into account when making a decision, your own needs and wants are another piece of information. Sometimes her NEEDS are going to be more important than your WANTS, you make your decision accordingly.

With My girl, sure I get what I want, but I also make sure I understand her needs and aim to structure the relationship so we BOTH benifit.... She needs me to have control (something of a given there else she wouldn't have needed to submit to me), she doesn't always get what she wants.... tough, if she needed to always get her way she chose the wrong type of relationship and the wrong person to have it with.

So you feel bad when you have to reinforce the bounderys.... tough, if you are not willing to get over that feeling and do it anyhow, fullfill the responcibility you took on when going into this kind of relationship then maybe you are not cut out for it. It is a package deal, you don't just get the easy/fun bits! The only way to learn is to DO it, if it isn't in you.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
... then maybe you should reconsider your roll in the relationship.



_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 5:50:29 AM   
Seekingoneslave


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		As others have touched on here, don't get caught up in what you think a master or dom is supposed to be. What matters is what works for both of you in your relationship, not what concept you may have of lifestyle relationship.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about your partner's feelings. In my eyes, that's the way it should be. You want her to be happy. You want her to enjoy the relationship and she wants to be with you. First of all, be fortunate you're in that situation. There are many here and elsewhere who would trade places.

My first d/s relationship was similar to the one you've described. It just took time for me to build to the point where I was comfortable enforcing rules. The more I thought about, the more it became akin to a parent and a child. The parent is looking out for the child, protecting him or her, but also setting rules that should be followed. The rules aren't there to punish the child; they're there to help the child grow and become a better person. If I didn't enforce the rules, I wasn't helping the process. Sometimes I didn't want to, but to help her grow and provide structure for her, I needed to. It was a part of my responsibility to her. She trusted me to set rules that were reasonable and to enforce them.

Once I got comfortable doing that, the relationship flourished. It made her to please me; and seeing her happy made me happy. It was more or less the perfect circle.

You care about this girl. And even though you didn't say it, it would seem by your words that you love her. You have something great going. Don't risk it by trying to be someone you aren't, just because you think you have to be. If you have questions about what she wants or needs, talk to her. And work together to make the relationship, however you two choose to define it, even stronger.

Good luck to both of you...it's always good to see another success story.

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 8:20:59 AM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

The problem, I still look out for her feelings even when I'm the Master, and I feel bad enforcing rules I like even when we've both agreed that this is one of the ways she shows her submission, as mentioned above, and appreciates Me. Along with this I believe the rule system can strengthen My sometimes not so there assertiveness.

She tells me it's what she wants, and I believe her whole heartedly. There's some problem I can't seem to get over, looking out for her feelings and still trying to put her needs above my own.

Your relationship is new, and no doubt some of this is related to settling in and figuring things out. Are you together IRL and/or full time?

I don't know what rules you are talking about, but I do know that some things Bill found very satisfying initially were, over time replaced with other ones he also found satisfying, but more suited to a long term meatworld relationship, with me at least :).. For example, Bill always expected to make my clothing choices. And while he still does that, his choices now are different, and, from my perspective, much more practical. We negotiated these changes over time. It gets to -40 here in the winter, and there was no way I was going out in the winter in a skirt. Nope. Yesterday I spent several hours gardening. I did that in shorts and a t-shirt. He still gets to have his tickle because he comes home to find me dressed in the skirts he likes so well, and without panties, but during our time apart each day, his choice it to be fine with me making my own choices, as long as he knows I am neat and well groomed when I am out and about.

From my perspective, this is very different than saying something like "I want to be controlled and here are the ten things I will allow you to control about me, as long as I like it too."

It's important to me to feel like my perspective is given serious consideration. With that happening, it is far less important to me to have my way.

Another Susan

< Message edited by BillsGalSusan -- 7/26/2006 8:23:44 AM >

(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 8:58:26 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I feel bad enforcing rules I like even when we've both agreed that this is one of the ways she shows her submission, as mentioned above, and appreciates Me. Along with this I believe the rule system can strengthen My sometimes not so there assertiveness

This left 2 impressions on me:
  1. You're using it as assertiveness training for yourself
  2. The problem may lie more with her not abiding by the rules and therefore forcing your hand
Just my opinion, but if you don't like enforcing these rules then either the rules need to go or she does. You shouldn't be using a relationship as assertiveness therapy, and if she's agreed to the rules she should stick to them by herself instead of relying on you to enforce them.

Like you, I think I'm a nice guy and I don't like enforcing rules. So I have very few rules and I've got a girl who knows better than to step out of line. Works like a charm for me!


(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 3:29:00 PM   
Zenar


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, nice guy to nice guy I definately know what you are talking about. I have been there and felt the same feelings and many other people here have almost hit it on the head but hopefully I can still add a thing or two here. For us nice guys the whole problem with the BDSM atmosphere in a new rleationship is that many submisives will have expections that simlpy do not fit our mold. This is not to say that we are not any less masterfull, any less dominant, we just have a different twist on things than most. Nor is this to say that the only expectations a submsive may have are on you, many will be that they expect that they will be required to do things for you that may or may not be to your tastes. Face it, many of us, both dominant and submsive, when we enter this lifestyle we have preconcieved steriotypes of what should be and what shouldnt be. No one ever lives exactly up to those expectations, expecialy us nice guys.

I would suggest several things on this, top of the list is dont allow her or your self to have expecations of you that do not fit your personality. Just because you read some where a dominant or master must do or want A B and C, does not mean that god himself handed down these laws, they are someones oppinion. Know yourself, know what you want, know what you dont want, and be firm in getting what you want, not what some one thinks a master should want, that is after all what it is about.

Communication, now most would put this at the top of the list, but I put it second for a very damn good reason. If you try to communicate before you know what you want, know what you expect, then you are not prepaired. Have some time to sit down by yourself and think things through, plan, know what it is that is that you read about and are curious about, what it is you definately do want, know what you definately do not want. If you yourself dont know then you definately cannot be firm about any thing. Firm does not mean demanding, it mean unwavering, more often than not a submisive is looking for that guiding hand, wants it to be a steady easy to read course, not a wavering drunken path swirving here and there. All this in mind you are ready to sit down with you girl and talk with her, not to her. Be open to new ideas, be open to hear her opintion, but be steady in your course of action.

Ask her opintion. In this I dont mean that you are letting go of control, but part of being responcible is knowing the mind of the one we have. Know what it is that she is curious about verses what she really wants. Know what the difference is between what she thinks itis supposed to be like verses what she really needs. You may have to hear every thing and not say any thing other than I will return to you when I have made up my mind. Dont rush to give snap quick judgments, walk away from it, give it time to sink into your own mind, think on things. Make it a regular interval that you have these talks, or even make these talks a part of your regular scene. It doesnt have to be boring, nothing quite like having a girl in your lap or kneeling at your feet while picking the locks of her mind.

Dont follow these things and she will say that he was exactly the type of master I always expected, like I always wanted. But if you do follow these things she will say he was nothing like I ever expected in my wildest dreams, he was so much more. That or you can learn these things like I did, the hard way of falling into all the potholes in the road, not suggested.


_____________________________

I know I am a mean evil bastard, but at least I am honest about it.

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Reluctant Dom - 7/26/2006 7:01:14 PM   
Nalta


Posts: 38
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		I dont really have much hel;pfull to say but I'm in the same boat as you.........except  Ihave a few less limitaions, but only a few.

(in reply to Zenar)
Profile   Post #: 13
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