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Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get on it - 3/23/2017 5:45:27 AM   
Musicmystery


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WASHINGTON—While he was testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee about why he should have the vacant seat on the Supreme Court, Judge Neil Gorsuch got himself smacked around by…the Supreme Court, which was meeting only about a block away from the hearing room. This is the kind of thing that would seem weird, if this were not a time in history when every damn thing seems weird.

"But while this process can be difficult, it must provide meaningful educational benefits to disabled students — which brings us to Judge Gorsuch's error in a 2008 opinion. In Thompson R2-J School District v. Luke P., a case brought by an autistic student whose parents sought reimbursement for tuition at a specialized school for children with autism, Gorsuch read IDEA extraordinarily narrowly. Under Gorsuch's opinion in Luke P., a school district complies with the law so long as they provide educational benefits that "must merely be 'more than de minimis.'" "De minimis" is a Latin phrase meaning "so minor as to merit disregard." So Gorsuch essentially concluded that school districts comply with their obligation to disabled students so long as they provide those students with a little more than nothing. All eight justices rejected Gorsuch's approach. IDEA, Chief Justice Roberts wrote, "is markedly more demanding than the 'merely more than de minimis' test applied by the Tenth Circuit." Indeed, Roberts added, Gorsuch's approach would effectively strip many disabled students of their right to an education."

So, between the autistic student and the frozen trucker, I'm beginning to conclude that ol' Golly-Gosh Gorsuch might very well have a gift for making all the wrong kinds of trouble for all the wrong kinds of people. No amount of sheep-riding will make up for that.

Ian Millhiser at ThinkProgress

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 5:48:03 AM   
servantforuse


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You do know that he will be confirmed.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 5:50:06 AM   
Musicmystery


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Yep. Just another day in the shit show that used to be a great country.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 5:53:40 AM   
servantforuse


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Elections have consequences.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 5:54:30 AM   
Musicmystery


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They certainly do.

Remember that.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 9:57:30 AM   
Musicmystery


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0-8, no less.

Seems somebody ought to wonder whether he's a good choice.

The frozen trucker dissent was pretty weird too.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 10:12:41 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ian Millhiser at ThinkProgress




Spend all of your time in the extremist echo chamber much

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 10:14:48 AM   
Lucylastic


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I still think he will be confirmed...
because its ... the Scrotus pick

But the SC decision must be a kick n the nads for his confidence.



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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 11:44:58 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ian Millhiser at ThinkProgress




Spend all of your time in the extremist echo chamber much

You think the SC voted differently depending on the outlet?

I read news from a variety of sources, including right-leaning publications.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 11:57:40 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Elections have consequences.

They sure do and some of them even more tragic than unexpected as one need no longer imagine...like this most recent pres. election.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 11:58:38 AM   
Kirata


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I wish you would link to the articles you quote. But leaving that aside, and acknowledging that it sounds like a bad decision, I would have to read IDEA to form a judgment, and there is no evidence given that Gorsuch liked his decision let alone personally agreed with it.

“Judges should be in the business of declaring what the law is using the traditional tools of interpretation, rather than pronouncing the law as they might wish it to be in light of their own political views . . . Judges should “regularly issue judgments with which they disagree as a matter of policy — all because they think that’s what the law fairly demands.” ~Source

I suppose nobody would be happy with every single decision a nominee ever issued, and I'm certainly not happy with some of Gorsuch's views. From the same source as above:

Off the bench, Gorsuch in 2006 published a book called The Future of Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia, criticizing the practice and defending the “intrinsic value” of human life.

On the other hand, from same source again:

When he agreed to deliver a major lecture at Case Western University School of Law early last year, Neil Gorsuch felt the time was ripe to urge reform of “the maddening maze of our civil justice system — its exuberant procedures that price so many out of court and force those in it to wade wearily through years and fortunes to win a judgment.”

I can get right behind that. I wonder if there is any nominee, by either party, that would please me (or anyone else) entirely.

K.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 12:05:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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My iPad doesn't give the urls, so whether I link depends on where I was and where I read it.

I give and will give links when I have them.

Google would search out the source from a quoted segment, though, when you're feeling like a little research.

I acknowledge the importance of linking to sources, however.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 12:42:56 PM   
bounty44


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I haven't had time to do any reading, and when I do, I probably still wont, but heres a start:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/15-827

its the ruling wherein judge Roberts' quote in the op was gotten.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone took the time to read everything, that they would find the integrity of the original source reporting the information somewhat suspect.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 3/23/2017 12:51:24 PM >

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 1:14:38 PM   
mnottertail


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This standard is more demanding than the “merely more than de minimis” test applied by the Tenth Circuit. It cannot be right that the IDEA generally contemplates grade-level advancement for children with disabilities who are fully integrated in the regular classroom, but is satisfied with barely more than de minimis progress for children who are not. Pp. 9–15.

from your link.

OP is substantially accurate, and the integrity of the nutsuckers is, de minimis suspect, as is the nominal case.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 1:19:50 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I haven't had time to do any reading, and when I do, I probably still wont, but heres a start:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/15-827

its the ruling wherein judge Roberts' quote in the op was gotten.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone took the time to read everything, that they would find the integrity of the original source reporting the information somewhat suspect.

Perhaps. How do you feel about the integrity of the 0-8 ruling? Because that's the factual essence here.

Same in the frozen trucker case. Gorsuch was the lone dissenter, saying no, by the law, the trucker should have stayed, even though he had no heat and after three hours couldn't feel his legs.

Not much to spin there -- it's what happened.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 3:31:54 PM   
Musicmystery


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Apparently, the Democrats have decided to filibuster, and McConnell has pledged to go nuclear.

We have ourselves a circus.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 4:45:45 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Apparently, the Democrats have decided to filibuster, and McConnell has pledged to go nuclear.

We have ourselves a circus.


The ringmaster



quote:

Chuck Schumer Flip-Flops on His Flip-Flop on Obstructing Supreme Court Nominees

Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer flip-flopped Tuesday on his flip-flop on whether the Senate should filibuster and obstruct the president’s Supreme Court nominees.

In 2007, the New York Senator said that the Democratic majority should block any of President George W. Bush’s remaining Supreme Court nominations. “”We should reverse the presumption of confirmation… we should not confirm any Bush nominee to the Supreme Court except in extraordinary circumstances,” he argued. “They must prove by actions not words that they are in the mainstream rather than we have to prove that they are not.”

Schumer’s stance was at the time was unprecedented. Certainly judicial nominations had taken on a partisan bent over the prior two decades, but there had always been lip service to the notion that the president gets the nominee he wants (the “presumption” Schumer alludes to above). The party out of power typically crafted some pretense for opposing the nominee. Schumer dropped the act and admitted that it didn’t matter who Bush nominated, Democrats should oppose them no matter what.

Flash-forward to 2016, when a vacancy opened up on the Supreme Court following the death of Antonin Scalia. This time of course President Barack Obama was the one selecting his replacement, and Schumer was horrified that Republicans were blocking his eventual nominee before he or she was even announced.

Here, [Mitch McConnell] doesn’t even know who the president’s going to propose and he said, no, we’re not having hearings; we’re not going to go forward to leave the Supreme Court vacant at 300 days in a divided time. This kind of obstructionism isn’t going to last. And you know, we Democrats didn’t do this.

…even though that’s exactly what Schumer proposed a decade earlier.

When Merrick Garland was eventually nominated, Schumer then urged Republicans in a statement to hold hearings on the nomination, warning of “judicial chaos” if there were only eight justices:

Senate Republicans need to do their job and give Judge Garland the hearing and vote he deserves because the American people deserve a fully functioning court. Having a deadlocked, 4-4 court could lead to judicial chaos surrounding environmental protections, voting rights, and so many other issues that are important to everyday Americans. This delay has gone on long enough, it’s time for the Senate to do the job we were elected to do.

Which brings us to Schumer’s interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Tuesday night. Maddow argued that the Democrats should refuse to fill the empty seat for the entirety of Trump’s four-year presidency.

“It’s hard for me to imagine a nominee that Donald Trump would choose that would get Republican support that we could support. So you’re right,” he responded.

“And so you will do your best to hold the seat open?” asked Maddow.

“Absolutely,” Schumer said.

Huh. I guess “judicial chaos” isn’t that bad after all, if we can now afford four whole years of it.

Ironically, Schumer is now guilty of arguing in public what Democrats accused Republicans of merely believing in private. Republican leadership never straight-up said they were opposing the Garland nomination because he was an Obama nominee, they went with the excuse that it should be left to the next president. Schumer doesn’t even bother with excuses: we don’t like Trump, so we’ll obstruct, end of story.

And as I noted in November when a Slate columnist also embraced the “keep the seat empty” argument, Republican rhetoric during the Garland nomination makes it hard to accuse them of hypocrisy, while Democrats’ statements over the past year will come back to bite them.

Say what you will about the Republicans’ rather transparent obstruction of Garland, the arguments they chose to forward won’t make them hypocrites come January. They argued the next president should choose the next Supreme Court justice, and now he will. Democrats will have a tougher time of it; their arguments were loftier, that blocking Garland was “disrespecting the Constitution,” that the GOP was “undermining the Supreme Court.” Like Lithwick, they claimed to be above politics, making it all the more awkward for them in the coming years when they inevitably embrace their position as the new obstructionists.

Stay tuned four years from now, to find out whether or not Chuck Schumer will flip-flop on his flip-flop of his flip-flop, or stick with his flip-flop of his flip-flop.


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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 4:50:22 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I haven't had time to do any reading, and when I do, I probably still wont, but heres a start:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/15-827

its the ruling wherein judge Roberts' quote in the op was gotten.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone took the time to read everything, that they would find the integrity of the original source reporting the information somewhat suspect.

Perhaps. How do you feel about the integrity of the 0-8 ruling? Because that's the factual essence here.

Same in the frozen trucker case. Gorsuch was the lone dissenter, saying no, by the law, the trucker should have stayed, even though he had no heat and after three hours couldn't feel his legs.

Not much to spin there -- it's what happened.


No. In the frozen trucker case, what Gorsuch said was that the company had the right to fire the trucker for leaving his vehicle. Whether the trucker SHOULD have stayed or not, is a different issue that was not addressed by the suit.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 5:12:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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I understand.

What's at issue is whether such a bizarrely narrow interpretation makes sense under the circumstances.

The court felt not . . . Except for Gorsuch.

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RE: Gorsuch smacked down by SC while in hearings to get... - 3/23/2017 6:48:55 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I haven't had time to do any reading, and when I do, I probably still wont, but heres a start:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/15-827

its the ruling wherein judge Roberts' quote in the op was gotten.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone took the time to read everything, that they would find the integrity of the original source reporting the information somewhat suspect.

Perhaps. How do you feel about the integrity of the 0-8 ruling? Because that's the factual essence here.

Petitioner Endrew F., a child with autism, received annual IEPs in respondent Douglas County School District from preschool through fourth grade. By fourth grade, Endrew’s parents believed his academic and functional progress had stalled.

They "believed"? On what evidence? When did mere "belief" become sufficient to establish anything?

When the school district proposed a fifth grade IEP that resembled those from past years, Endrew’s parents removed him from public school and enrolled him in a specialized private school, where he made significant progress. School district representatives later presented Endrew’s parents with a new fifth grade IEP, but they considered it no more adequate than the original plan.

They "considered" it no more adequate? On what evidence? When did personal opinion become sufficient to establish anything?

They then sought reimbursement for Endrew’s private school tuition by filing a complaint under the IDEA with the Colorado Department of Education. Their claim was denied, and a Federal District Court affirmed that determination. The Tenth Circuit also affirmed.

Their claim was denied three separate times, twice by Federal courts, so Gorsuch's view was obviously not unique. And without a demonstration of need stronger than "belief" without evidence, I'm not surprised. Was there evidence? I don't know.

K.


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