Trumps words get him into trouble.... (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:04:42 AM)

A federal judge in Kentucky ruled that Donald Trump incited violence at a campaign rally in Louisville in March of 2016.

When protestors were punched and shoved after he repeatedly said "Get them out of here" a suit was filed.

Trump's attorneys attempted to get the suit dismissed on the grounds of free speech, arguing that he did not intend for his supporters to use force.

Problem is that Trump had prior to this incident and in others following had directed his supporters to use force against protestors and anyone speaking against him at rallies.

Judge Hale noted in his ruling that speech inciting violence is not protected under the first amendment, a point supported in past SCOTUS rulings.

It is not a new ruling, since Trump's own words on banning Muslims has been used against him in both rulings on his executive order travel bans.

quote:

Trump's campaign in 2015 proposed a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration to the United States — the news release remains on his campaign website to this day — and the courts ruled that this rhetoric was relevant when it halted his first travel ban, despite Trump's team arguing that it wasn't a Muslim ban. In striking down the first travel ban, the courts cited Rudy Giuliani's comments that suggested Trump sought to make his Muslim ban idea legally practical.

“So when first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said. “He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'”



source

The primary case involving free speech and violence is Brandenburg v Ohio, where the Supreme Court ruled that the first amendment does not protect speech inciting violence.

President Trump's assertion earlier in the week concerning a separate matter that he cannot be sued while president is true under the constitution.

However, his attacks on the Freedom Caucus and other republican groups may open the door for something he has not counted on, a move by republicans he has alienated with his attacks working with democrats to start an impeachment trial.

Considering the latest Gallup poll has his approval rating at 35%, it is not a far fetched conclusion.

My personal opinion is that while there are things that the President has said in the past, as well as recently has created some personal concerns, there are many things that he supports that I actually agree with. The biggest problem is his tendency to open his mouth and speak (or tweet) before thinking it through. President Trump could, conceivably, get this country back on some steady footing, but alienating groups of those people who put him in office as well as further alienating his detractors or political opponents is not going to gain him much support for his programs.

Nor is it going to help by pissing off US allies.

With his own words being used against him in the courts, and even republicans, added to the fact that he grabs a half assed conspiracy theory proposed by a crackpot on a radio show is going to either bring down his presidency in record time or worse, turn him into a lame duck without losing an election.

The man is clearly intelligent, you have to be when you consider his business successes, but his lack of tact and diplomacy with his friends and foes alike is not going to gain him the support he needs to push any of his programs through congress.

A good point is his nominee for the supreme court. Gorsuch is clearly qualified on many levels, a point many democrats are forced to accept. But getting a nominee to the bench on the bench requires a bit of support from both parties, and right now, Trump does not have it, and what he had is fast eroding away.




BoscoX -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:38:43 AM)

If the WaPoo people weren't so obviously at war against the Republicans on behalf of the alt left, their articles could almost be taken seriously

They'rte not even worthy of lining bird cages at this point though, because only idiots and ideologues would fund their propaganda machine by purchasing the liner material from them

And you can finde partisan judges to back any insanity

Totally meaningless drivel




thompsonx -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:47:45 AM)


ORIGINAL: BoscoX

And you can finde partisan judges to back any insanity

Totally meaningless drivel

What kind of odds are you giving on his impeachment/removal from office?




thompsonx -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:51:37 AM)


ORIGINAL: jlf1961


there are many things that he supports that I actually agree with.


You are a relatively sane person...tell me just what he has said that you agree with?


President Trump could, conceivably, get this country back on some steady footing,


What unsteady footing are you referencing?







mnottertail -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:53:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

If the WaPoo people weren't so obviously at war against the Republicans on behalf of the alt left, their articles could almost be taken seriously

They'rte not even worthy of lining bird cages at this point though, because only idiots and ideologues would fund their propaganda machine by purchasing the liner material from them

And you can finde partisan judges to back any insanity

Totally meaningless drivel

There are no republicans governing, only nutsuckers. retarded factless felchgobbling nutsuckers.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 8:57:45 AM)

To me the man is hate schadenfreude etc

Hecklers - are they not also entitled to free speech. Hate speech is a bit different - but imo trump is guilty of that on numerous occasions...i will leave his lying fukery out of this one.

does he incite hate?





Lucylastic -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:01:57 AM)

his own words are his own words.
that someone decided to sue him over it, is his own fault.




Real0ne -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:11:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Judge Hale noted in his ruling that speech inciting violence is not protected under the first amendment, a point supported in past SCOTUS rulings.

The primary case involving free speech and violence is Brandenburg v Ohio, where the Supreme Court ruled that the first amendment does not protect speech inciting violence.




More counterfeit SCROTUM rulings.

The 1st amendment certainly does protect the right to say whatever the hell one wants to say.

This is more of the SCROTUMS sleight of hand and constitutional subterfuge by pretending the 'results of free speech' is the same as the 'act of free speech' itself.

Bend over, I hear the train a comin, its rolling round the bend!







Real0ne -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:16:57 AM)

a moment of prayer to the scrotum

Our scrotum who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, give us the day our daily bullshit, on earth as it is in heaven.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:31:22 AM)

wifey2 I have no idea why he has not been sued, numerous times and I am talking about his time in office, or to get to that office..I am not talking about the 500-1000 he still has against him business wise

I mean the mad fuk said he could shoot anyone, he went on camera teary of eye and asked the Russians to find Hillary 20 000 deleted emails, climate hoax was created by the Chinese - wtf his proof is?..its along list I should have saved it but you get the drift.




BoscoX -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:33:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

a moment of prayer to the scrotum

Our scrotum who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, give us the day our daily bullshit, on earth as it is in heaven.



Robed dictators

Alt left trash loves judicial decree because they cannot get their extremist agenda passed democratically




jlf1961 -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:44:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

If the WaPoo people weren't so obviously at war against the Republicans on behalf of the alt left, their articles could almost be taken seriously

They'rte not even worthy of lining bird cages at this point though, because only idiots and ideologues would fund their propaganda machine by purchasing the liner material from them

And you can finde partisan judges to back any insanity

Totally meaningless drivel



Bosco, you are forgetting one important fact, Judge Hale ruled against Trump and his supporters, citing SCOTUS on the subject.

It does not matter what paper reported it.

You are failing to grasp the essence of the situation.

His travel bans have been blocked based on his saying he wants to 'ban Muslims' from entering the country during his campaign speeches.

His numerous occasions of telling supporters to 'knock the crap' out of protestors speaking against him at rallies has done nothing to help his agenda.

You rail against the 'alt left' for violent protests and say nothing against Trump for telling his supporters to do the same damn thing, which makes you and those saying the same things hypocrites.

In the case Brandenburg v Ohio, Brandenburg was arrested and convicted of advocating violence and violent acts against others.

His whole appeal was based that what he said was protected under the first amendment. The supreme court ruled against him.

Technically, under that ruling, every time Donald Trump openly told his supporters to commit acts of violence against protestors, he was violating the law. The fact he was not arrested and charged with inciting violence is to put it mildly, a miracle, or to be more precise, pure dumb luck.

The only thing protecting him now is the fact he is the president and thus, immune from arrest unless impeached.

Conservatives often claimed that Obama had little regard for the constitution, and violated it on many occasions, the problem is, which people seem to have forgotten, that if that were true, congress would have had the grounds to impeach and throw him out of office.

And considering that the Republicans had the control of both houses in his last years, the fact that none of them even bothered to introduce a motion to impeach speaks volumes.

In this case however, the proof is there in video of him openly advocating violence. It is also there where he turns around and blasts liberals for their violent protests, or blasts them for calling for disruption of town hall meetings.

The hypocrisy is so obvious it is almost laughable, condemning people for breaking the laws when he himself told supporters to break the law.

As I said, there are points in his agenda I support, but it is also true that he has done somethings that are ethically and legally questionable.

And while the Freedom Caucus may be a pain in his ass, as it has been with many GOP congressmen, he cant really afford to piss them off too much. There is enough of them to kill any programs he may endorse by siding with dems in both houses.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an all to common move in American politics.




BoscoX -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:47:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

If the WaPoo people weren't so obviously at war against the Republicans on behalf of the alt left, their articles could almost be taken seriously

They'rte not even worthy of lining bird cages at this point though, because only idiots and ideologues would fund their propaganda machine by purchasing the liner material from them

And you can finde partisan judges to back any insanity

Totally meaningless drivel



Bosco, you are forgetting one important fact, Judge Hale ruled against Trump and his supporters, citing SCOTUS on the subject.

It does not matter what paper reported it.

You are failing to grasp the essence of the situation.

His travel bans have been blocked based on his saying he wants to 'ban Muslims' from entering the country during his campaign speeches.

His numerous occasions of telling supporters to 'knock the crap' out of protestors speaking against him at rallies has done nothing to help his agenda.

You rail against the 'alt left' for violent protests and say nothing against Trump for telling his supporters to do the same damn thing, which makes you and those saying the same things hypocrites.

In the case Brandenburg v Ohio, Brandenburg was arrested and convicted of advocating violence and violent acts against others.

His whole appeal was based that what he said was protected under the first amendment. The supreme court ruled against him.

Technically, under that ruling, every time Donald Trump openly told his supporters to commit acts of violence against protestors, he was violating the law. The fact he was not arrested and charged with inciting violence is to put it mildly, a miracle, or to be more precise, pure dumb luck.

The only thing protecting him now is the fact he is the president and thus, immune from arrest unless impeached.

Conservatives often claimed that Obama had little regard for the constitution, and violated it on many occasions, the problem is, which people seem to have forgotten, that if that were true, congress would have had the grounds to impeach and throw him out of office.

And considering that the Republicans had the control of both houses in his last years, the fact that none of them even bothered to introduce a motion to impeach speaks volumes.

In this case however, the proof is there in video of him openly advocating violence. It is also there where he turns around and blasts liberals for their violent protests, or blasts them for calling for disruption of town hall meetings.

The hypocrisy is so obvious it is almost laughable, condemning people for breaking the laws when he himself told supporters to break the law.

As I said, there are points in his agenda I support, but it is also true that he has done somethings that are ethically and legally questionable.

And while the Freedom Caucus may be a pain in his ass, as it has been with many GOP congressmen, he cant really afford to piss them off too much. There is enough of them to kill any programs he may endorse by siding with dems in both houses.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an all to common move in American politics.


You are just parroting the propaganda you have been fed, blind man

Eating shit sandwiches thinking it's steak





Lucylastic -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 9:50:35 AM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLbN1TcgLA

a mashup of his "own words"




Real0ne -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 11:08:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


In the case Brandenburg v Ohio, Brandenburg was arrested and convicted of advocating violence and violent acts against others.

His whole appeal was based that what he said was protected under the first amendment. The supreme court ruled against him.



In this case however, the proof is there in video of him openly advocating violence. It is also there where he turns around and blasts liberals for their violent protests, or blasts them for calling for disruption of town hall meetings.




Oh so you seen this guy hold a gun to peoples heads and force them to commit violent acts is that it?

NO!

He was he exercizing his right to free speech the commission of any crime as a result falls upon the person committing the crime not the person exercizing free speech.


Once again! Everyone kneel, face washington and bow to your god:

a moment of prayer to Scrotumus Maximus

Our scrotum who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, give us the day our daily bullshit, on earth as it is in heaven.









WhoreMods -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 11:27:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


In the case Brandenburg v Ohio, Brandenburg was arrested and convicted of advocating violence and violent acts against others.

His whole appeal was based that what he said was protected under the first amendment. The supreme court ruled against him.



In this case however, the proof is there in video of him openly advocating violence. It is also there where he turns around and blasts liberals for their violent protests, or blasts them for calling for disruption of town hall meetings.



Oh so you seen this guy hold a gun to peoples heads and force them to commit violent acts is that it?

NO!

He was he exercizing his right to free speech the commission of any crime as a result falls upon the person committing the crime not the person exercizing free speech.


Once again! Everyone kneel, face washington and bow to your god:

a moment of prayer to Scrotumus Maximus

Our scrotum who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, give us the day our daily bullshit, on earth as it is in heaven.






[img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OoV_gsbYcxI/hqdefault.jpg[/img]




bounty44 -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 5:18:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A federal judge in Kentucky ruled that Donald Trump incited violence at a campaign rally in Louisville in March of 2016.



the headline of the article says this:

quote:

A judge rules Trump may have


the text of the article says this:

quote:

“It is plausible"


which means "reasonable to believe but not proved."

how does one get from those two things, to what you wrote, that a judge "ruled that trump incited violence?"




jlf1961 -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 5:31:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A federal judge in Kentucky ruled that Donald Trump incited violence at a campaign rally in Louisville in March of 2016.



the headline of the article says this:

quote:

A judge rules Trump may have


the text of the article says this:

quote:

“It is plausible"


which means "reasonable to believe but not proved."

how does one get from those two things, to what you wrote, that a judge "ruled that trump incited violence?"




Except, missing the key part, the judge also noted his earlier comments telling supporters to punch protestors as part of his ruling.

As far as plausable or reasonable to believe, the judge clearly ruled against Trump's attorneys when he made his ruling, basically saying he agreed that Trump incited his supporters to do exactly what he did.

quote:

Hale found ample facts supporting allegations that the protesters' injuries were a "direct and proximate result" of Trump's actions, and noted that the Supreme Court has ruled out constitutional protections for speech that incites violence.

"It is plausible that Trump's direction to 'get 'em out of here' advocated the use of force," the judge wrote. "It was an order, an instruction, a command."


source

quote:

Lawyers for Trump and his campaign also argued that they cannot be held liable because they had no duty to the plaintiffs, who assumed the risk of injury when they decided to protest at the rally. The judge countered that under the law, every person has a duty to every other person to use care to prevent foreseeable injury.

"In sum, the Court finds that Plaintiffs have adequately alleged that their harm was foreseeable and that the Trump Defendants had a duty to prevent it," the judge ruled, referring the case to a federal magistrate, Judge H. Brent Brennenstuhl, to handle preliminary litigation, discovery and settlement efforts.


Either way Trump's lawyers lost, and while you noted the only aspect that might have mitagated my statement, the rest of the Judge's ruling supports it.




bounty44 -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 5:59:50 PM)

the judges ruling was against a motion by trumps lawyers to have the charges dismissed or a rejection of the defendants line of defense, he did not give a ruling that "trump incited violence."

unless im missing something in the reading you have mischaracterized the event.




Musicmystery -> RE: Trumps words get him into trouble.... (4/2/2017 6:02:03 PM)

OK. What's the proper characterization?

Something more than "Nuh-uh."




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