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New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 9:02:59 AM   
Greta75


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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/opinion/sunday/make-america-singapore.html?_r=0

There is Singapore, whose health care system is the marvel of the wealthy world. Singaporeans pay for much of their own care out of their own pockets, and their major insurance program is designed to cover long-term illnesses and prolonged hospitalizations, not routine care. The combination has produced genuinely extraordinary results: The island state has excellent health outcomes while spending, as of 2014, just 5 percent of G.D.P. on health care. (By comparison, a typical Western European country that year spent around 10 percent; the United States spent 17 percent.)

Quick solution to healthcare plan: Make it mandatory for Congress to enroll in the plan they pass!

However, there has never been a major Republican policy proposal that just imitates what Singapore actually does. That’s because the Singaporean vision is built around personal responsibility and private spending, but also a degree of statism and paternalism that present-day American conservatism instinctively rejects.

First, Singaporeans do not spend money voluntarily saved in health-savings accounts. Under their Medisave program, they spend money saved in mandatory health-savings accounts, to which employers contribute as well. Second, their catastrophic insurance doesn’t come from a bevy of competing health insurance companies, but from a government-run single-payer system, MediShield. And then the government maintains a further safety net, Medifund, for patients who can’t cover their bills, while topping off Medisave accounts for poorer, older Singaporeans, and maintaining other supplemental programs as well.

So the Singaporean structure does not necessarily minimize state involvement or redistribution. It minimizes direct public spending and third-party payments, while maximizing people’s exposure to what treatments actually cost. And the results are, again, extremely impressive: By forcing its citizens to save and manage their own spending, the Singaporean system seems to free up an awful lot of money to spend on goods besides health care over the longer haul of life.

This is the point in a normal column where I would note the insuperable political obstacles to getting a Singaporean plan through Congress even if Republicans embraced it. (And for the record, I am quite certain that making America Singapore wouldn’t generate quite the same cost savings for cultural reasons alone: A sprawling empire of free spenders is never going to be as disciplined as a city-state ruled for 30 years by Lee Kuan Yew.) But I’m dealing in political implausibilities these days, and if you simply wish away the hurdles, there is a stronger case by far for trying to get to Singapore than for the jerry-built, incoherent thing that Paul Ryan is struggling to maneuver through the House.

What’s more, the federalist health care compromise floated recently by Senators Bill Cassidy and Susan Collins is a little closer to Singapore than many Republican plans to date. The senators propose that states be allowed to experiment with an Obamacare alternative that would 1) auto-enroll the uninsured in catastrophic coverage and 2) directly fund health savings accounts for the working class and poor. The first isn’t MediShield (there’s no public option) and the second isn’t Medisave (no mandatory saving). But together, they’re more Singaporean than what RyanCare does and doesn’t do, and better for it.

Of course they’re also a bigger compromise with paternalism than the Republican Party’s True Conservatives are currently willing to accept. They have their principles, and making America Singapore is simply a non-starter.


I think our health system will be great for America too. BUT the values and principles are too different. As this dude said. America will never accept Paternalism. Basically, we are the ultimate Nanny State. The government takes care of everything! But dictate how we spend our money and treat us like children with our health care savings and retirement savings, so that we won't senselessly spend it all in our youth and everybody will have money lying around when they are old lol.

The responsible people who can manage their own money will hate them. The irresponsible people who are prone to throwing away all their money will be grateful for these forced savings when they reach retirement.
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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 9:28:27 AM   
InfoMan


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I think it will be horrible because Singapore is a city-state...

Not only is it a lot easier to manage the significantly lower per capita, but because it is almost entirely urban sprawl, thus it cannot take into account the wide diversity of of health conditions which occurs as you traverse the gradient from Urban to Rural. I don't think a single Singaporean will have to worry about coal lung, injury due to a unruly farm animal, or illness from exposure to the elements like many Europeans or Americans actively have to. It has nothing to do with the political nature, cultural difference, government involvement, or even the responsibility of the people it effects... Nations are bigger and a lot more complex then Singapore will ever be... so just because it works there does not mean it will work any where else.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 9:55:00 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

I think it will be horrible because Singapore is a city-state...

Not only is it a lot easier to manage the significantly lower per capita, but because it is almost entirely urban sprawl, thus it cannot take into account the wide diversity of of health conditions which occurs as you traverse the gradient from Urban to Rural. I don't think a single Singaporean will have to worry about coal lung, injury due to a unruly farm animal, or illness from exposure to the elements like many Europeans or Americans actively have to. It has nothing to do with the political nature, cultural difference, government involvement, or even the responsibility of the people it effects... Nations are bigger and a lot more complex then Singapore will ever be... so just because it works there does not mean it will work any where else.

I don't see how diversity of health conditions got to do anything, when you know take for example, Brunei Citizens Universal Healthcare allows their citizens to seek treatment in Singapore fully government paid.

And plenty of Indonesians prefer to seek medical treatment in Singapore than in their own country. We actually cater to a huge Medical Tourism too, as we are surrounded by countries with lesser medical capabilities. So I would say our exposure is pretty good.

So if we had to treat "farm related illnesses", I fail to see how it will make us less efficient?

You really can't use this Nation bigger argument too, because then I am gonna bring up Canada, who is as big but with a Universal healthcare system that US will never adopt either! But it works well for them!

I feel like basically, Americans just can't get their act together to work on a healthcare that works.

And also in complete denial that what work in other countries cannot work for them.

It's almost disgusting that, medicine is so much cheaper in Canada, when it's just next door for example.

US Healthcare just seem extremely corrupt and really not working for the people.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/5/2017 9:59:41 AM >

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 10:03:01 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

I think it will be horrible because Singapore is a city-state...

Not only is it a lot easier to manage the significantly lower per capita, but because it is almost entirely urban sprawl, thus it cannot take into account the wide diversity of of health conditions which occurs as you traverse the gradient from Urban to Rural. I don't think a single Singaporean will have to worry about coal lung, injury due to a unruly farm animal, or illness from exposure to the elements like many Europeans or Americans actively have to. It has nothing to do with the political nature, cultural difference, government involvement, or even the responsibility of the people it effects... Nations are bigger and a lot more complex then Singapore will ever be... so just because it works there does not mean it will work any where else.



Something new in the umpteenth American health care thread:
A miracle seems to have happened insofar as someone actually appeared to have noticed that there are about maybe 40 different working public health care systems among first-world nations existing, and, for the first time, might have taken a closer look at one and wondered if some of could work for the US as well.

There could actually be a wide variety to choose from, learn about qualities and flaws of each, and finally to realise that there might be no need to re-invent the wheel.

Btw whatever system - it has of course to cover coal lung, traffic as well as natural injuries, VDs, frozen toes, and much much more. Usually public health care systems simply DO. No politicians' business. Healthcare business.


Just to mention: Germany got a public health care system in 1883. 134 years ago. Already read anybody?


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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 10:54:12 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

I think it will be horrible because Singapore is a city-state...

Not only is it a lot easier to manage the significantly lower per capita, but because it is almost entirely urban sprawl, thus it cannot take into account the wide diversity of of health conditions which occurs as you traverse the gradient from Urban to Rural. I don't think a single Singaporean will have to worry about coal lung, injury due to a unruly farm animal, or illness from exposure to the elements like many Europeans or Americans actively have to. It has nothing to do with the political nature, cultural difference, government involvement, or even the responsibility of the people it effects... Nations are bigger and a lot more complex then Singapore will ever be... so just because it works there does not mean it will work any where else.


that's so random, health care system have more problems in smaller nations because they can't share the costs so effectively as a huge nation would do. It's actually the american system that with it's lack of regulations and sinergy has all the problems of a small system without the benefits of a big one.

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 11:03:43 AM   
Termyn8or


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FR

Some people in this country are against national health care. We are belligerent.

To draw ana anlogy foreigner can understand I wil use the new car example.

When you buy a new car there is a warranty. The car company requires you to properly maintain the vehicle to keep the warranty. In fact there are companies here that will void the warrant if they find out you did not do proper maintenance or even actually used the wrong type of oil. But if you obey the rules they fix your car at their expense.

For years medical insurance companies asked if you smoke or drink or whatever. The rates were higher if you smoke because they want to cover themselves in case you get lung cancer. How much farther is that from telling you what to eat ? What if they detect bacon in your system after a heart attack and claim it is the cause ad deny you coverage ?

In NYC they tried to ban a certain type of oil used in restaurants. They tried to ban soft drinks over a certain size. This is a free country ? What's more, at the time they had nothing to do with healthcare. You are a piece of chattel, designed and bred to pay taxers to them. This is how they think.

Maybe other countries are different, but I sure as fuck know how it is here. They consider you property. Like cattle. That is why we do things a bit differently here. They did not free the slaves, they simply took the rest of us. The Constitution matters not. You can't even read it with their shit stains on it.

I want nothing to do with all this anymore. Next time I get sick I either live or die. I am not going to a doctor again. Insurance, with those deep pockets are what made doctors rich. Russian doctors come here because they make about four times the money and test out of alot of medical school so they don't have a ton of debt. All you have to do is marry one of them. You are probably set for life then.

To make "America" like other countries there is alot of damage to reverse and I am not so sure it is possible. Tell a doctor that he will only be making a third of what he used to make. Take a swing at that. In other words, it is too late. It will take a generation to clean this shit up. But then companies have done that. First tier and second tier and all; that, new hires do not get the pay and benefits of the tenured employees. And they never will. With real healthcare reform which must reduce costs, pay cuts are inevitable. There is no other way, other than eliminating the suits in the upper office who actually do nothing.

I don't see this happening anytime soon.

T^T

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 11:05:37 AM   
InfoMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I don't see how diversity of health conditions got to do anything, when you know take for example, Brunei Citizens Universal Healthcare allows their citizens to seek treatment in Singapore fully government paid.

And plenty of Indonesians prefer to seek medical treatment in Singapore than in their own country. We actually cater to a huge Medical Tourism too, as we are surrounded by countries with lesser medical capabilities. So I would say our exposure is pretty good.

So if we had to treat "farm related illnesses", I fail to see how it will make us less efficient?

You really can't use this Nation bigger argument too, because then I am gonna bring up Canada, who is as big but with a Universal healthcare system that US will never adopt either! But it works well for them!

I feel like basically, Americans just can't get their act together to work on a healthcare that works.

And also in complete denial that what work in other countries cannot work for them.

It's almost disgusting that, medicine is so much cheaper in Canada, when it's just next door for example.

US Healthcare just seem extremely corrupt and really not working for the people.


It has nothing to do with medical experience - it is the fact that you do not need to regularly provide health services to individuals which have a higher injury rate or chronic/reoccurring illnesses, both of which produce a significant drain on the economic sustainability of the program. And suffice it to say - if a person can Travel to the city-state in question - then they obviously do not need government aid in obtaining medical treatment.


Sure - bring up Canada - with it's population of 36 Million and compare it to the United States which has 325 Million - almost 10 times the standing population. It is not square footage, it is per capita. How about Germany? ~80 Million. France? 66 million. UK? 65 million. Spain? 46 million. Singapore? ~5 million...


This is the problem that people fail to realize...
That just because it works for X, Y, and Z... doesn't mean that it will work for every one. As a system grows, the complexity behind that system increases by an exponential factor... Eventually it gets to the point that the system simply cannot support such a large demographic and fails. The United States is on one side of that equation while all the nations which have 'free universal healthcare' are on the opposite side.



Let me put it like this for you then...
in 2016 there where 1.6 Million NEW cancer patients in the United States.
That is 1/3rd the population of your Singapore.

If 1/3rd your country's people had to dip into that MediShield program... would it still stay afloat?

And that is just Cancer - imagine Heart Disease, unintentional injury, and coma - which are also covered under the catastrophic coverage plan. Could your nation support the entirety of it's population dipping into that fund?

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 11:32:53 AM   
Termyn8or


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Yup.

It seems people in other countries have a hard time understanding how it is here.

T^T

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 12:09:52 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I don't see how diversity of health conditions got to do anything, when you know take for example, Brunei Citizens Universal Healthcare allows their citizens to seek treatment in Singapore fully government paid.

And plenty of Indonesians prefer to seek medical treatment in Singapore than in their own country. We actually cater to a huge Medical Tourism too, as we are surrounded by countries with lesser medical capabilities. So I would say our exposure is pretty good.

So if we had to treat "farm related illnesses", I fail to see how it will make us less efficient?

You really can't use this Nation bigger argument too, because then I am gonna bring up Canada, who is as big but with a Universal healthcare system that US will never adopt either! But it works well for them!

I feel like basically, Americans just can't get their act together to work on a healthcare that works.

And also in complete denial that what work in other countries cannot work for them.

It's almost disgusting that, medicine is so much cheaper in Canada, when it's just next door for example.

US Healthcare just seem extremely corrupt and really not working for the people.


It has nothing to do with medical experience - it is the fact that you do not need to regularly provide health services to individuals which have a higher injury rate or chronic/reoccurring illnesses, both of which produce a significant drain on the economic sustainability of the program. And suffice it to say - if a person can Travel to the city-state in question - then they obviously do not need government aid in obtaining medical treatment.


Sure - bring up Canada - with it's population of 36 Million and compare it to the United States which has 325 Million - almost 10 times the standing population. It is not square footage, it is per capita. How about Germany? ~80 Million. France? 66 million. UK? 65 million. Spain? 46 million. Singapore? ~5 million...


This is the problem that people fail to realize...
That just because it works for X, Y, and Z... doesn't mean that it will work for every one. As a system grows, the complexity behind that system increases by an exponential factor... Eventually it gets to the point that the system simply cannot support such a large demographic and fails. The United States is on one side of that equation while all the nations which have 'free universal healthcare' are on the opposite side.



Let me put it like this for you then...
in 2016 there where 1.6 Million NEW cancer patients in the United States.
That is 1/3rd the population of your Singapore.

If 1/3rd your country's people had to dip into that MediShield program... would it still stay afloat?

And that is just Cancer - imagine Heart Disease, unintentional injury, and coma - which are also covered under the catastrophic coverage plan. Could your nation support the entirety of it's population dipping into that fund?

China, but we must pretend scalability is an issue. And if we ignore enough and cherry pick just right, we can pretend swimmingly. EU arent they all on national single payer programs and arent they about our pop?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 12:40:09 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Some people in this country are against national health care. We are belligerent.



we have a joke about people in a valley close to where I live, so a farmer in this land working in the fields finds an old oil lamp tries to polish it and a gini appear and declares: "You freed me master you have one wish that I'll make real but be aware that anything you ask your neighbour will get the double" so the farmer thinks about it and then says: "remove one of my eyes", honestly I see the situation like this you are willing to pay more and geopardize your health as long as in the short term your money wont benefit someone else.

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 12:40:10 PM   
MrRodgers


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How many time do I need to tell you kinkroids ? No other system will work in the US. The US health care system is one of the grand examples of American exceptionalism.....

.....American exceptionalism in [its] overriding desire...for fucking money !! (greed !!)

If there isn't good high 6 figure pay and 7 figure businesses for doctors...forget it.

If there isn't the freedom for the doctors and hospitals to charge whatever they want...forget it.

If technology suppliers can't financially rape the hospitals and other users...forget it.

In the US, as with everything and I mean every fucking thing, it...is...all...about...money !!

Alexis de Tocqueville wrote it I think back in the 1830's...never saw a country more in love with money.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 2:25:57 PM   
Termyn8or


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You got that right.

T^T

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 4:30:22 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1605
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I don't see how diversity of health conditions got to do anything, when you know take for example, Brunei Citizens Universal Healthcare allows their citizens to seek treatment in Singapore fully government paid.

And plenty of Indonesians prefer to seek medical treatment in Singapore than in their own country. We actually cater to a huge Medical Tourism too, as we are surrounded by countries with lesser medical capabilities. So I would say our exposure is pretty good.

So if we had to treat "farm related illnesses", I fail to see how it will make us less efficient?

You really can't use this Nation bigger argument too, because then I am gonna bring up Canada, who is as big but with a Universal healthcare system that US will never adopt either! But it works well for them!

I feel like basically, Americans just can't get their act together to work on a healthcare that works.

And also in complete denial that what work in other countries cannot work for them.

It's almost disgusting that, medicine is so much cheaper in Canada, when it's just next door for example.

US Healthcare just seem extremely corrupt and really not working for the people.


It has nothing to do with medical experience - it is the fact that you do not need to regularly provide health services to individuals which have a higher injury rate or chronic/reoccurring illnesses, both of which produce a significant drain on the economic sustainability of the program. And suffice it to say - if a person can Travel to the city-state in question - then they obviously do not need government aid in obtaining medical treatment.


Sure - bring up Canada - with it's population of 36 Million and compare it to the United States which has 325 Million - almost 10 times the standing population. It is not square footage, it is per capita. How about Germany? ~80 Million. France? 66 million. UK? 65 million. Spain? 46 million. Singapore? ~5 million...


This is the problem that people fail to realize...
That just because it works for X, Y, and Z... doesn't mean that it will work for every one. As a system grows, the complexity behind that system increases by an exponential factor... Eventually it gets to the point that the system simply cannot support such a large demographic and fails. The United States is on one side of that equation while all the nations which have 'free universal healthcare' are on the opposite side.



Let me put it like this for you then...
in 2016 there where 1.6 Million NEW cancer patients in the United States.
That is 1/3rd the population of your Singapore.

If 1/3rd your country's people had to dip into that MediShield program... would it still stay afloat?

And that is just Cancer - imagine Heart Disease, unintentional injury, and coma - which are also covered under the catastrophic coverage plan. Could your nation support the entirety of it's population dipping into that fund?

China, but we must pretend scalability is an issue. And if we ignore enough and cherry pick just right, we can pretend swimmingly. EU arent they all on national single payer programs and arent they about our pop?


EU in total is ~ 500 million. There are differing models in different nations, but they have to cover all costs wherever you are, also if you work in another country (many programs relate on employment) than you live in.

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 7:11:24 PM   
InfoMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

China, but we must pretend scalability is an issue. And if we ignore enough and cherry pick just right, we can pretend swimmingly. EU arent they all on national single payer programs and arent they about our pop?


Ha! China? Really you're going to buy into the lie that china provides full health coverage?
The country that has effectively 'Weaponized' their health care program to 'deal' with people that stir public dissidence?

The place where they Kidnap homosexuals then proceed to drug, beat and torture them to 'cure them' of their homosexuality... Yeah - we should totally strive to be more like China's health care system which has committed Human Rights violations.

And no - they don't.
Many of the signatories of the EU have a more hybrid system much like the US, while others have universal healthcare provided by the state. While you can get an EU healthcare card - it is not a single pay system in the least for a great majority of the people living in the EU.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 7:36:06 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan
It has nothing to do with medical experience - it is the fact that you do not need to regularly provide health services to individuals which have a higher injury rate or chronic/reoccurring illnesses, both of which produce a significant drain on the economic sustainability of the program. And suffice it to say - if a person can Travel to the city-state in question - then they obviously do not need government aid in obtaining medical treatment.


Sure - bring up Canada - with it's population of 36 Million and compare it to the United States which has 325 Million - almost 10 times the standing population. It is not square footage, it is per capita. How about Germany? ~80 Million. France? 66 million. UK? 65 million. Spain? 46 million. Singapore? ~5 million...


This is the problem that people fail to realize...
That just because it works for X, Y, and Z... doesn't mean that it will work for every one. As a system grows, the complexity behind that system increases by an exponential factor... Eventually it gets to the point that the system simply cannot support such a large demographic and fails. The United States is on one side of that equation while all the nations which have 'free universal healthcare' are on the opposite side.



Let me put it like this for you then...
in 2016 there where 1.6 Million NEW cancer patients in the United States.
That is 1/3rd the population of your Singapore.

If 1/3rd your country's people had to dip into that MediShield program... would it still stay afloat?

And that is just Cancer - imagine Heart Disease, unintentional injury, and coma - which are also covered under the catastrophic coverage plan. Could your nation support the entirety of it's population dipping into that fund?


I still don't understand. Yes we will still stay afloat. What the article fail to mentioned is also, we have public hospitals. So the whole medical care system is run by the government. Including the Insurance and the hospital, and the clinics.

It seriously doesn't make sense why bigger population is harder, because the pool of money from a bigger population is even more!

The percentages whether big or small is still the same.

If 30% of USA got cancer or if 30% of Singapore gets cancer. Same situations should apply.

And I'd say 30% for cancer rate in Singapore is just about right. We DO have 1/3 of our population that has cancer.

The other thing you are saying is that because of traveling distance of rural areas to big cities of hospital is difficult. In our system, we would work with local doctors in that area to provide the care for the people in those areas claimable by Medishield.

Or have ambulances that could make those trips to get to those people. I think that is a tiny problem. Hospital planning will be in accordance to the situation of that country. And if Canada is BIGGER than US, with lesser people. Then people are probably very scattered out all around. How do you think their medical care cater to their people who are living in far away rural areas? This is not a problem at all. Canada has no problems with it.

quote:

And that is just Cancer - imagine Heart Disease, unintentional injury, and coma - which are also covered under the catastrophic coverage plan. Could your nation support the entirety of it's population dipping into that fund?


You do realise that THAT is precisely what is happening right now right? The fund is surviving and COVERING all these things. We have an aging population ya know. I think Americans are used to their government being terrible at managing their country's fund that they cannot imagine other countries do not have same problems of balancing budgets and still keeping surpluses year after year.

We aren't a healthcare marvel, if we didn't managed to cover all those you mentioned, and still keep surpluses.

But to be fair. America spends too much money on helping things that not occurring in their own country. Singapore probably spends zero in that area.

So that's why Trump is cutting some international spending areas now. At some point of time, maybe US needs to simply say, they can't keep affording this.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/5/2017 7:46:45 PM >

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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 8:39:49 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75

From your link:

There is Singapore, whose health care system is the marvel of the wealthy world.


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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 8:57:44 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

Ha! China? Really you're going to buy into the lie that china provides full health coverage?
The country that has effectively 'Weaponized' their health care program to 'deal' with people that stir public dissidence?

The place where they Kidnap homosexuals then proceed to drug, beat and torture them to 'cure them' of their homosexuality... Yeah - we should totally strive to be more like China's health care system which has committed Human Rights violations.

Do you even read the shit you post. The article clearly states that the man was kidnapped by his wife and her friends and that:

China legalized homosexuality in 1997 and declassified it as a mental disorder in 2001

Jesus you are phoquing stupid


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RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/5/2017 9:26:33 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

How many time do I need to tell you kinkroids ? No other system will work in the US. The US health care system is one of the grand examples of American exceptionalism.....

.....American exceptionalism in [its] overriding desire...for fucking money !! (greed !!)

If there isn't good high 6 figure pay and 7 figure businesses for doctors...forget it.

If there isn't the freedom for the doctors and hospitals to charge whatever they want...forget it.

If technology suppliers can't financially rape the hospitals and other users...forget it.

In the US, as with everything and I mean every fucking thing, it...is...all...about...money !!

Alexis de Tocqueville wrote it I think back in the 1830's...never saw a country more in love with money.

Our country is all about capitalism too.

But we basically charge stupid amounts of money to medical tourism. We promote Medical Tourism. That's how our doctors earn their 7 to 8 Mil per annum. And US definitely has alot of medical tourism too. Over charge on that sector. That's what we do. And US has some of the best surgeons of the world. We have differing pricing for Foreigners and locals.

But just don't do that to their own citizens. It could work. Even Europeans, the super rich ones, would fly to US for medical care and I know that for a fact. And willing to pay stupid amounts for it.

I mention about Brunei permitting their citizens to seek treatment in Singapore fully government paid? The prices our surgeons charges Brunei government its like absolutely ridiculous. Something we pay maybe 100k for, they pay 1.1mil for. That's the difference. It all works out!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/5/2017 9:32:07 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: New York Times "Make America Singapore" - 4/6/2017 9:08:56 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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FR

What many do not realize is how unhealthy this country is. We are among the highest per capita rates in heart disease, diabetes and such. This is because of the food. You are what you eat, and believe it or not, after years of research I have concluded that most overweight people are malnourished. And there are alot of them and they are not healthy.

It was a mistake to make doctors rich, now they are addicted to money. But then, there is more work to do. They can barely spend fifteen minutes with you. So that's almost four per hour, in an eight hour day that is over thirty people.

And people do not listen nor study anything. The food pyramid is a joke. You have to go find out for yourself here. When people get rich when you get sick, their advice might not be the best in the world. I did my own research and while most people my age don't, I stil have all my teeth and hair, and I am in no pain. I take no pharmaceuticals, even aspirin. I get a headache about once a year, usually due to sinuses. I do not take anything, it just goes away pretty quickly. Haven't seen a doctor i years, and a dentist since I was a kid to get a baby tooth puled because the damn thing would not let go.

But I am different than most people I guess. I had bad knees, but when I started eating better, they got better and now are not a problem, while doctor would have wanted to do replacement surgery. Three things I have found in real life, coming from those with actual experience. Do not let them fuse your vertibrea. (sp, not looking it up) Do not get a root canal. Do not get the nose surgery for a deviated septum. It is supposed to be deviated. But people do it all the time. Many of them have told me that these things simply do not help. This is from people who know.

And then some people need valium for a hangnail. Almost hypocondriacs. Any little thing. And then if their kid sneezes it is off to the doctor right away and get him started on some drugs.

I like being different.

T^T

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 19
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