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electric cars - 7/26/2006 5:49:44 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Has anyone seen this movie?
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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 7:40:23 AM   
sub4hire


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No, as the movie picks as California though.  An electric car here is virtually useless.  We have hybrids on the road.  Electric is only good up to 35 miles an hour.  If you live in California you usually have to commute to work on the freeway...unless you are very lucky.
Once hitting the freeway no more electric then what?

On top of that, my personal observation lately.  It is time to turn in my mustang for a newer car.  So, I've been in the market the past 6 month's or so.  I decided to buy a VW bug so I can convert it to alternative fuels myself.
Now comes the issue.  I need a diesel.  There is a diesel fuel shortage in California so unless you are purchasing a diesel truck you cannot buy a diesel car here. 
Its the law.  The car must have 8000 miles on it prior to entering the state to be registered.  Also in California we have smog laws.  So, lets say since I own property in other states I go out and buy one new...drive it around the country a bit and bring it home.  I then have to add however many thousands of dollars to it to make it smog compatible here.

Even trying to buy a hybrid here is a nightmare...most places say you're looking at a minimum of 6 month's.  I have a friend who owns a natural gas car.  Other than the fact there are very few stations that sell to the public...its mostly city works places.  He has never had any issues with it. 

Anyway, just my take on cars.

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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 10:27:39 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

No, as the movie picks as California though.  An electric car here is virtually useless.  We have hybrids on the road.  Electric is only good up to 35 miles an hour. 

General Motors' EV1, the subject of the documentary in the OP, had a top speed of 80mph.  The vehicle's true top speed was even higher, but software limited the EV1 to 80 mph.  They're far from useless.

~stef

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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 3:53:21 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Sounds like you haven't seen the movie I was talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Electric is only good up to 35 miles an hour.

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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 4:15:52 PM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Has anyone seen this movie?
Haven't heard of it LAM..is it a new one in the theaters or is this an older one that is on DVD?

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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 4:57:11 PM   
stef


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It's new.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 5:29:49 PM   
MasterRenegade77


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I've not seen that movie but I was watching the evening news the other day & there's a New company called of all names "Tesla" Motors" Check this Link http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

They're selling 1,000 of these Roadsters for $100,000 a piece to finance the building of all electric sedans!!!


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RE: electric cars - 7/26/2006 7:01:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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LaM;

I was in a pissed off mood and I am glad you brought this up. Takes my mind off the bullshit.

Electric cars really are the way of the future and if you're old enough you probably remember GM buying the patent for the water injection carbeurator and shelving it. Big money operates in it's own best interests, or at least they think so.

There were electric cars before the 1920s, the idea was scrapped because the technology was not there. They were inefficient, had a ton of batteries and you could get electrocuted recharging one. Things have changed.

The first thing that had to happen is the advancement of battery technology. That has pretty much happened. New batteries can usually be charged faster than they are drained, which breaks a very big piece of ice. Batteries are also way more powerful pound for pound than they used to be. Everything needs to be put in perspective, for example the cost of natural gas skyrocketing might make an electric furnace more cost effective, this was not so in the past.

Now that they have inductively coupled charging systems you can send the kids out to do it. This little dandy is ½ of a transformer and the other half is in the car. You plug it in and an oscillator excites the primary coil once it is inserted into the proper receptacle. Charging is pretty much accomplished by a magnetic field. The contacts will also never erode or corrode either, there are no concacts.

What is even better is the technology in the car itself. For one fluid coupling technology has advanced, and reached it's peak with the advent of the THM400 transmission. That was developed for internal combustion engines since the fluid coupling would allow it to idle. Otherwise you need a clutch, or to restart it when the light turns green, but it has other virtues. In a THM400 the torque converter multiplies torque, in effect acting as a CVT (constantly variable transmission). While an electric motor does not need to idle, fluid coupling may be a viable engineering idea for electric cars. Then again the motor can be designed with such a high low RPM torque that it is not even needed, but there is a tradeoff. Also, no matter what anybody says, I don't think they are going to do away with transmissions anyway. For the gearing to be correct to get a decent acceleration off the line, the motor might be doing way too many RPMs at say 60 MPH.

Now I don't know if they have implemented this last idea, but it would be the biggest advancement in EV technology. Many motors become generators when driven. This means a system could be developed which would actually recharge the batteries when the driver decides to deccelerate. I could actually design such a system, using a DC to DC convertor to kick up the voltage and load the motor, instead of dissipating the energy used to accelerate, it is now returned to the batteries. Normal car brakes waste all of it, converting it to heat. I have heard of some hybrids using decceleration to whip up the speed of a rather heavy flywheel, running independant of the engine or motor. This is even better. Your net loss of juice boils down to wind resistance and bumps, optimally.

Old EVs in the 1910s were a nightmare, multiple brushes and windings and a switching system under the accelerator pedal that would give one a headache. Now with the advent of Schottky diodes and low loss MOSFETs we have alot more options. The motor doesn't even have to be DC, or even permanent magnet.

There are still many engineering problems, no matter what type of design is used. A bit less than a decade ago GM came out with an EV, instead of using a differential and one motor, they had a motor on each wheel. This eliminated driveshafts altogether. A novel idea, and it made more room for batteries. It also affords the driver something alot better than positraction ever was.

Modern vehicles with internal combustion engines are about as efficient and clean as they are ever going to get. IMO, the best path would be to endeavor to replace the big deisels in semi trucks with electric motors. At least the ones that operate locally, and would have access to charging stations, although the system could be expanded for long hauls. Truckers are required to not drive more than 12 hours a day, so truck stops near motels would be a perfect venue for recharging stations. Also there could be a system whereby batteries are simply exchanged, much like you do with a propane tank. The problem is that the batteries are likely to be very heavy, requiring a towmotor or something to change. Come to think of it, I have seen many electric towmotors.

I keep all my vehicles in the best running condition possible, for one it's clean and does not pollute the air. I will not drive a car going "thub thub" and spew smoke, wreck my catalytic and possibly have gas running down into the crankcase. For two, a car that runs right gets the best gas mileage, and with gas at it's current price, well one would have to be an idiot not to.

Still the allure of the EV exists. Now we all know about corporate greed and how it is killing us, but what of other countries ? Perhaps the US indeed has the best electronic technology, but one of the few real teachers I had told me something.

An American firm sent the absolutely smallest drill bit that supposedly could be made to Germany, and it came back with a hole drilled through the center. I am having a hard time believing that German, Swiss and Swedish engineers, among the best in the world haven't come up with anything (LaM I said AMONG). Of course then I don't know that they haven't. Motor technology is something I don't know all that much about, yes I know how they work, but tweaking efficiency and power is not my field. I could design a really good control system, but in an EV, if you don't have a good motor forget it.

I can't make the judgement, but I think GM's idea of using a motor on each wheel is a winner. It eliminates all driveshafts and differentials needed to use one large motor.

Once they get it right I might just give up my 20 year old car. Then we need to figure out how to generate more electricity. Life, plain and simple, solve a problem and create three, answer a question and another question will pop up. Life.

T

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