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Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 4:55:59 PM

rwmbk

Posts: 43
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Looking for thoughts;

I try very hard to serve and please, because I desire to feel sucessfull in their world. Their praise builds my confidence.

I find humiliation can be extremly damaging to self esteem. At least in my case seem that humiliation is best saved as a method to punish when needed.

Rightfully so not every Mistress seems to agree with this methodology. Seems some start right from the bat using humiliation to strip pride.

< Message edited by rwmbk -- 12/7/2004 5:10:07 PM >

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 5:06:27 PM

siamsa24

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Having done work in this area I am going to voice my academic opinion and my findings.

I have found that in learning and behavior modification both rewards (in this case praise) and punishments (in this case humiliation) have the same short-term outcome. However, the long-term outcome is different. In the long-term the individuals in the punishment group had higher stress and anxiety levels (determined through testing and one-on-one interaction), were less trusting of authority figures, and only worked at a satifactory level. The individuals in the reward group had lower levels of stress and anxiety, were more open to new and existing authority figures and often exceeded expectations in their work.
This study was done in different age groups, but all were young. Although the age is different I feel that this data can be generalized to apply to all ages in the general public (with exceptions of course, there are always exceptions).

Again, this is just my academic opinion, based on research and experiments that I have done.

(in reply to rwmbk)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 5:46:36 PM

alwayzron

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Humiliation is extremely damaging for the self-esteem. Lowered self-esteem is linked to a lowered auto-immune system, which results in a decrease in the body's ability to 'feel good'. Resulting in ..... lowered self-esteem. This is why I believe in better living through chemistry.

Although not everyone who is into being humiliated is dysfunctional, many wrestle with a sense of inner guilt and subconsciously seek humiliation as a means of "paying penance" for the mistakes they've made in their pasts, instead of realizing that none of us are perfect and we all have skeletons in our closets. Some of these people, too, are have been verbally abused by others for so long that they know no other way of connecting with others. Sad, really.

But like I said ... this is not alwayz the case. Some people enjoy being on the receiving end of humiliation, especially if they know it's just a part of the scene.

(in reply to siamsa24)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 8:02:28 PM

subgreg

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I think humiliation is best when used in conjunction with praise. I know I myself, while not suffering overly so from self-esteem problems, do tend to view praise with some skepticism. I sometimes have trouble accepting praise, though it is VERY nice to hear. Humiliation, or at least a reprimand here or there, will provide balance to the praise, and may make it easier to accept.

As for starting with humiliation right off the bat, maybe it is being used to correct what the Dom/me considers excessive pride or arrogance.

All in all, as with all styles or training, every method must be tailored to the individual's needs.

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(in reply to rwmbk)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 8:18:12 PM

rwmbk

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quote:

I think humiliation is best when used in conjunction with praise

Well thats what seems logical to me. A system of rewards and punishments. It just seems more often than maybe it should be, the two are not kept seperate, and I don't understand that. It would be nice of a few of the Domme's would offer their insite.

quote:

As for starting with humiliation right off the bat, maybe it is being used to correct what the Dom/me considers excessive pride or arrogance.

I guess that never occured to me.

(in reply to subgreg)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 8:27:01 PM

Whipenrod

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Humiliation is something I've had a hard time understanding...I was under the impression that some people get turned on by being humiliated.
After I thought about it, I realized that a lot of guys experience their first sexual feelings in connection with humiliation:
(being teased for having a hard-on, parents catching him masturbating, having wet pants from coming suddenly, etc...)...

Am I on the right track?
Rather than humiliation being a punishment--can it be a quick ride to an erotic connection?

--Lady Whipenrod

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(in reply to rwmbk)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 8:37:16 PM

honeyedsin

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There is many different types of humiliation. Some that are easy to take and some that if done to me would make me burst into tears. i dislike most forms of verbal humilation, but to be called a slut or even my slut turns me on to no end. Being made to do certain things in public play could also be found humilating but as Im an exhibitionist they mostly turn me on. Being used as furniture or being made to kneel in front of a group of people isn't something I find humiliating as I find it satisfying to do as I was asked.

Not all types are intended to deminish self esteem, and with those who would not respond favorably it would be best to forgo delving into these areas.

Sindy

(in reply to Whipenrod)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 9:36:27 PM

LadySonelle

Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
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quote:

It would be nice of a few of the Domme's would offer their insite.

I dislike humiliation EXCEPT in very small, well measured doses for a specific end such as fetish training. I have seen what humiliation can do to a child! Its effects on adults are not as extreme at first, but can be very corrosive over time.

Here are actual comments I have heard used on children I worked with:

"You are defective! I wish you had never been born!"
"You are nothing but incubator trash! You ought to have died at birth!"
"You're blind and useless! You wrecked my marriage!"
"Why did I ever have you? You're nothing but a failed abortion!"
"I wish your twin had lived and you had died. You disgust me!"
"If you have another tantrum, I'll chain you in the crazy house where they'll eat your legs off!"

All of these things (and worse) were said to blind or visually impaired children under the age of 10! Can you even *imagine* the self esteem issues?! In fact, three of the children whose examples I've quoted above are, in fact, dead. One of a brain tumor and two were suicides.

My dislike of humiliation as a tool has been formed by My work with those who have suffered it as a parental weapon.

Erotic humiliation, OTOH, can be used, *carefully* to build to a strong experience. I am *always* on guard, mentally, and hypervigilant when doing erotic humiliation. To Me it is extreme edge play and potentially dangerous.

As I commented on a chat board once, My very FAVOURITE scene would be to pull a shyly protesting sub/slave onto My lap and stroke, soothe, pinch, cuddle, pet, tweak, stroke... until he dissolves into a cooing, yipping puddle of confused lust! Hard as a rock and flinching every time I move! :D
"Ohhhh *Ow!* Ooooohhhh, that feels ~ah!~ soooo !eep! * gooo*Ai!*oood, Mistre-yip!-esss!"

Makes Me wet just thinking of it!

Lady Sonelle

(in reply to rwmbk)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 10:16:36 PM

Jasmyn

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... worm boys, sissysluts, dogboys and so on... *need* to be humilated ...to have their useless selfs pointed out and their uselessness proved.... slaves and submissives want to feel useful...too many doms confuse this and think all it takes to dom someone is a loud voice and expletives...it may work for the wormboys...but it won't illicit submission from a slave who wants to serve...

(in reply to rwmbk)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/7/2004 10:27:37 PM

rwmbk

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Well now that I think about it, I tend to notice the whole humilation kick and inability to relate it to punishment more from pro-domme's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

... worm boys, sissysluts, dogboys and so on... *need* to be humilated ...to have their useless selfs pointed out and their uselessness proved.... slaves and submissives want to feel useful...too many doms confuse this and think all it takes to dom someone is a loud voice and expletives...it may work for the wormboys...but it won't illicit submission from a slave who wants to serve...

(in reply to Jasmyn)

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RE: Humiliation and control - 12/8/2004 11:01:25 AM

njbrian13

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Joined: 11/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipenrod
After I thought about it, I realized that a lot of guys experience their first sexual feelings in connection with humiliation:

Am I on the right track?

Yes, I'll agree with that. We have to be taught to hide gross sexual gestures in public.

Remember that for most (ok me) BDSM is a hidden aspect of their lives. For them it is taboo. The acceptance of a subs nakedness coupled with an acknowledgement of the breaking of a taboo brings a great rush.

brian

(in reply to Whipenrod)