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Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ to w... - 5/7/2017 5:57:02 PM   
Lucylastic


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I understand that the EB-5 entry is specifically for the investor class, its been going for years, its how rich people move around the world, blah blah blah.
Its a necessary evil that is by its very nature corruptible.
Given the corruption at the top, Im wondering why people are happy to just give this a pass.
There have certainly been plenty of times past presidents have been accused of corruption, pay to play, donations from or to various nefarious companies etc, enough to go around.

so what are peoples thoughts on this situation.....

In a Beijing ballroom, Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ to wealthy Chinese
By Emily Rauhala and William Wan May 6 at 9:18 PM

BEIJING — The Kushner family came to the United States as refugees, worked hard and made it big — and if you invest in Kushner properties, so can you.

That was the message delivered Saturday by White House senior adviser Jared Kushner’s sister Nicole Kushner Meyer to a ballroom full of wealthy Chinese investors in Beijing.

Over several hours of slide shows and presentations, representatives from the Kushner family business urged Chinese citizens gathered at a Ritz-Carlton hotel to consider investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in a New Jersey luxury apartment complex that would help them secure what’s known as an investor visa.

The potential investors were advised to invest sooner rather than later in case visa rules change under the Trump administration. “Invest early, and you will invest under the old rules,” one speaker said.

The tagline on a brochure for the event: “Invest $500,000 and immigrate to the United States.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-a-beijing-ballroom-kushner-family-flogs-500000-investor-visa-to-wealthy-chinese/2017/05/06/cf711e53-eb49-4f9a-8dea-3cd836fcf287_story.html?tid=pm_pop&utm_term=.7af6f5da169e


there is more information at a different link regarding the controversy over the EB5 program.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/china-pitch-by-kushner-sister-renews-controversy-over-visa-program-for-wealthy/2017/05/07/59d18360-3357-11e7-b412-62beef8121f7_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-politics%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.b9fb4c62888f




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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:04:19 PM   
MrRodgers


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Why am I not surprised ? I wonder if Ivanka's new shoes for the wife come with that.

The republican party platform is two lines:

cut taxes almost exclusively for the top 5% and.....

make some [more] fucking money.

If this was Hillary, there would congressional hearings by next week.

Almost as bad as sending your son-in-law to go defeat ISIS. I'll take few army guys, lots-a Marines and...a Mint Julep please.

BTW, aren't they required to create some jobs with their investment ?

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:13:45 PM   
Greta75


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Almost every country has an "Investor" visa. And there are people from every country hawking "investors visa".

I think this is good. The kind of immigrants you want in America are those who will come in and contribute 500k and above to America. This means, they may go there and start companies and create jobs for America.

Imagine if every immigrant to the US can easily afford 500k to move there. Think of what will that do to your economy?

They will be spending like crazy in your country. Your local shops will have increase of sales with people with high disposable income.

On top of that, since they are on the higher taxing tier. The country gets MORE funding FROM foreigners, rather than SPENDING on foreigners.

The US government themselves should go into China to market investors visas, encouraging more Chinese people to pump money into US start up companies.

That's what Singaporean government do. They go to China, offer perks, citizenship, and find the rich to move to Singapore and start up companies here. That's part of job creations.

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:25:10 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Almost every country has an "Investor" visa. And there are people from every country hawking "investors visa".

I think this is good. The kind of immigrants you want in America are those who will come in and contribute 500k and above to America. This means, they may go there and start companies and create jobs for America.

Imagine if every immigrant to the US can easily afford 500k to move there. Think of what will that do to your economy?

They will be spending like crazy in your country. Your local shops will have increase of sales with people with high disposable income.

On top of that, since they are on the higher taxing tier. The country gets MORE funding FROM foreigners, rather than SPENDING on foreigners.

The US government themselves should go into China to market investors visas, encouraging more Chinese people to pump money into US start up companies.

That's what Singaporean government do. They go to China, offer perks, citizenship, and find the rich to move to Singapore and start up companies here. That's part of job creations.

It was to invest on one NJ Apt. complex. Hardly a blip on the economic map. Plus almost all of those visa programs involve fudging the 'new' hires requirement. I know I've looked into it.

Clearly Putin style cronyism coming from the president's family.

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:47:42 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

It was to invest on one NJ Apt. complex. Hardly a blip on the economic map. Plus almost all of those visa programs involve fudging the 'new' hires requirement. I know I've looked into it.



Because Kushner companies are not representing America. But what I am saying is, the American Government THEMSELVES should go to China and find rich investors to invest in All types of American Start up Companies.

What I mean is, they should gather all types of American companies looking to expand or grow, and go into China today to prospect for Investors, with government support, backing them, saying that, if these guys invest 500k into all these American Businesses that creates more job for American people, they get to immigrate into America.

The most important thing is, when these Chinese invest, they are into American projects that will benefit American people.

China is a goldmine today.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/7/2017 8:48:25 PM >

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:54:19 PM   
Lucylastic


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corruption isnt in your dictionary is it


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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 8:57:32 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
corruption isnt in your dictionary is it


I don't see this as corruption, as long as it still involve an American business, in America, that creates job for American people.

If for example he was seeking money from China people to invest in building something, for example, in Dubai, in return for immigration into America.

That would be corruption. It does not benefit America. That's in Dubai!

In this case, ALL different sectors of American companies should be doing what Kushner companies do. Create more awareness about this 500k investor rule in China or other countries, so that they attract high networth immigrants. And having high networth immigrants who are into business investment in your country can only mean more jobs for your country.

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 9:10:04 PM   
Lucylastic


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If you didnt read the link I gave, then your arrogance is understandable

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/7/2017 9:18:52 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

If you didnt read the link I gave, then your arrogance is understandable

I believe Kushner company is encouraging the 500k Investments into US properties right? No foreign properties involved? So case close.

So where is the corruption?

For me, I feel the government should personally be doing this already! Not just for Kushner company but ALL American companies looking for investors.

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 2:17:32 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

If you didnt read the link I gave, then your arrogance is understandable

I believe Kushner company is encouraging the 500k Investments into US properties right? No foreign properties involved? So case close.

So where is the corruption?

For me, I feel the government should personally be doing this already! Not just for Kushner company but ALL American companies looking for investors.

What you propose is and has been available to all such investors world wide for many years. There is a very stark difference between any offer to anybody that to invest money in American businesses and receive a visa in exchange and that of the president of the US's family asking the same.

Bloomberg News reported in March 2016 that the program has been used to the benefit both the Trump and Kushner family businesses. Before joining the White House, as chief executive of his family’s real estate company, Jared Kushner raised $50 million from Chinese EB-5 applicants for a Trump-branded apartment building in Jersey City, according to the report.

One cannot possibly compare soliciting investments in the US in general at the amount necessary and purportedly creating X amount of jobs to get a visa with the above. This specific investment is directly profiting from ones family business ties and it being...the president's family.

You read it here first. (likely)

Wait for it but let's see if it is in any way possible for DOJ to negotiate down its pending fine against Deutsche Bank with some sort of presidential influence in exchange for even a partial write down of Trump's debt to that bank. Deutsche Bank is now even being touted by Russian TV (RT.com) as being too big for the whole fucking world...to fail. Isn't that precious ?

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 7:46:08 AM   
tweakabelle


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How does investing in a real estate complex generate jobs? Presumably this particular complex is going to be built regardless of whether Chinese investors take up Kushner's invitation or not. If the Chinese investors decline to act on the Kushner's marketing offer then other investors, domestic or foreign will simply take their place. So whether Chinese investors buy Kushners' apartments or not won't make any difference to the US's unemployment rate. Not an iota.

The Kushners were essentially engaged in a sales campaign to sell the apartments they were building. They were using the prestige generated by their positions and influence inside the White House to improve the attractiveness of their project to Chinese investors. They were parading this influence to suggest that difficulties with visa requirements for overseas investors would be less of an issue than they might otherwise be. They were not engaged in creating extra jobs for American workers. Buying an apartment does create a single new job, not even for real estate brokers. Any gains generated by involving Chinese investors in the Kushner's project would go straight into the Kushner's already considerable bank accounts.

If this doesn't constitute using high office for personal gain, the very essence of corrupt behaviour by public officials, then it is sailing perilously close to the wind.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/8/2017 7:49:43 AM >


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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 7:59:00 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

If you didnt read the link I gave, then your arrogance is understandable

I believe Kushner company is encouraging the 500k Investments into US properties right? No foreign properties involved? So case close.

So where is the corruption?

For me, I feel the government should personally be doing this already! Not just for Kushner company but ALL American companies looking for investors.

The corruption is so obvious it will bite you in the ass if you do not sit carefully.

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 10:37:16 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I understand that the EB-5 entry is specifically for the investor class, its been going for years, its how rich people move around the world, blah blah blah.
Its a necessary evil that is by its very nature corruptible.
Given the corruption at the top, Im wondering why people are happy to just give this a pass.
There have certainly been plenty of times past presidents have been accused of corruption, pay to play, donations from or to various nefarious companies etc, enough to go around.

so what are peoples thoughts on this situation.....



My thoughts are this... it is legal.. it is one of the few & quickest ways a person can legally move to the US (but the downside is that the investor must become an American citizen within (iirc) 5 years).. each applicant is vetted by the govt... I have read that this program has created (iirc) about 200,000 jobs.. If someone puts their money into an EB5 center project (rather than starting a new business on their own), there is no guarantee at all that they will get their money back.. that is (imo) an extreme risk but very possible.. I personally think that this should be only for those investors that start and run new businesses, and the EB5 centers should be totally eliminated.. imo you should want entrepreneurs, not simply investors... but I dont make the rules so...

There has been corruption but imo most/all of it has been from those that push the EB-5 centers such as the one Hillary Clinton's brother ran.. where applicants who were already denied approval somehow became approved thru his center (& political connections???).. And in other cases those that got the funds simply ran off with them scamming the EB5 investors out of their entire investment.. The program is to create jobs in high unemployment areas and so there is also "corruption" in that some of these projects are not in areas with high unemployment.. they are in thriving cities that dont really need any help in creating jobs.. that is a form of "corruption" of the rules...

Btw, my understanding is that if an illegal immigrant starts a business in the US and is successful & can prove that he qualifies under EB5 requirements ($1 million invested/worth & 10 jobs created) that they can become legal residents & eventually citizens.. that is pretty much the only way they can become legal, but they have to meet the requirements first..


"The request for the EB-5 visa was submitted and supported by Gulf Coast Funds Management, a firm run by Hillary Clinton’s brother Anthony Rodham. Gulf Coast has a partnership with GreenTech, an electric automotive company founded by Virginia gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe. McAuliffe is building a factory in China.

In December 2010, McAuliffe wrote to Napolitano on behalf of GreenTech and asked her to expedite the company’s EB-5 requests and reopen consideration of requests that had been previously denied.

This past January, Rodham wrote to Mayorkas directly and pressed him to speed up approval of EB-5 visas for GreenTech."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/31/alejandro-mayorkas-s-dhs-nomination-held-up-over-ig-investigation

"Ripped Off Investors in EB-5 Fraud Case Can Try to Recover Lost Assets
An ongoing fraud case involving an apparently fake plan to build cancer treatment center located in Montebello, funded by Chinese nationals seeking to take advantage of the EB-5 visa program, is an example of investment fraud. "

https://www.orangecountybusinessattorneyblog.com/2016/09/01/ripped-off-investors-eb-5-fraud-case-can-try-recover-lost-assets/


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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 10:44:53 AM   
tj444


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To clarify.. the $500,000 investments are to be in high unemployment areas, and if its not a high unemployment area then the investment is to be $1 million..

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/8/2017 4:14:27 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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But they apologized today and said they didn't mean to imply he was still involved.

All better now huh?



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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/9/2017 7:49:33 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How does investing in a real estate complex generate jobs? Presumably this particular complex is going to be built regardless of whether Chinese investors take up Kushner's invitation or not. If the Chinese investors decline to act on the Kushner's marketing offer then other investors, domestic or foreign will simply take their place. So whether Chinese investors buy Kushners' apartments or not won't make any difference to the US's unemployment rate. Not an iota.

The Kushners were essentially engaged in a sales campaign to sell the apartments they were building. They were using the prestige generated by their positions and influence inside the White House to improve the attractiveness of their project to Chinese investors. They were parading this influence to suggest that difficulties with visa requirements for overseas investors would be less of an issue than they might otherwise be. They were not engaged in creating extra jobs for American workers. Buying an apartment does create a single new job, not even for real estate brokers. Any gains generated by involving Chinese investors in the Kushner's project would go straight into the Kushner's already considerable bank accounts.

If this doesn't constitute using high office for personal gain, the very essence of corrupt behaviour by public officials, then it is sailing perilously close to the wind.


Whether or not other investors would fill the gap if EB5 investment didnt exist is questionable.. these people are easier suckers, they badly want the visa so are not gonna look nearly as close to what they are actually getting as other non-EB5 investors or banks would.. they are also more likely to believe what they are told, especially if they arent accountants or have that level of financial know-how.. and too, banks for a long time after 2008 wouldnt touch construction projects no matter what.. So EB5 is (imo) a whole lot easier than sleazy McScrouge bank manager, professional investors etc whose main focus is safety of their investment, not a green card...

Take the case of Jay Peaks Resort, which for a few years looked legit.. (700 investors put at least $350 million into eight projects).. You have a UK EB5 investor who is more familiar with western business dealings, can speak english better than most Chinese investors and who had a whole lotta luck on his side to figure out wtf happened to his investment.. He thought he had actual part ownership in the hotel and finds out they secretly switched his ownership equity into debt.. hmmm.. so how does any EB5 investor actually know what they are getting? and if you are Chinese, dont speaky english well, arent familiar with western business dealings, accounting practices, dont get full documentation, get name dropping & assurances of govt oversight that is an outright lie, what chance do they have? If you are looking for money for a project, who is gonna be the easiest, least expensive, fastest source??? EB5, of course..

"Meet The London Car Dealer Who Broke The Jay Peak EB-5 Fraud Case
Earlier this summer VPR reported that state officials received documentation of alleged fraud at Jay Peak Resort in 2014, a year and a half before filing charges against resort owner Ariel Quiros and president Bill Stenger.

The documentation came from an unusual source: one of the foreign investors in an EB-5 project at Jay Peak. He managed to piece together the alleged fraud before the state’s investigation even began.

Tony Sutton is a car dealer from London. He’s worked around the world, selling everything from Mazda and Ford to Rolls Royce and Aston Martin. He wanted to move to Florida, learn the American auto industry, and maybe open a dealership of his own.

He never meant to become the ringleader for a group of defrauded investors.

“I don’t know what you call it in America. I was probably the nerd, I guess,” Sutton says.

Then again, Sutton never imagined that the terms of his $500,000 equity investment in Jay Peak Resort — an investment that originally gave him an ownership stake — would be changed without his knowledge.
That happened in 2013, when his equity was suddenly converted to debt. Sutton and 34 other investors in Jay Peak’s Tram Haus Lodge didn’t find out about the change until the next year, in a letter from Jay Peak president Bill Stenger.

“We got our letter from Stenger in January 2014,” Sutton says. “I mean, the shock of getting this letter that suddenly we didn’t have a hotel.” 


All the investors were foreigners who put their money into the Vermont business through the federal EB-5 Immigrant Investment program. This visa program fast-tracks U.S. residency in exchange for investments that create American jobs.

The main reason that we chose Vermont was because … of assurances from the state that they would very closely monitor all activity,” Sutton says.

But after learning they had lost ownership of the hotel, the investors discovered there had actually been very little state oversight over EB-5 developments in Vermont: For example, no one at the state-run EB-5 office had known of the change to the Tram Haus deal until investors started complaining about it.

Next, Sutton was shocked to learn how little state officials would or could do to help.

Investors were told that the deal had technically been legal, and the state-run EB-5 office didn’t have authority to intervene. Investors were on their own, holding an unsecured IOU from Jay Peak owner Ariel Quiros, who promised to return their money in 10 years.

That’s when Tony Sutton unleashed his inner “nerd.”

“I never set out to become the spokesperson,” he says. “It just happened that way.”

Sutton says he tried to go through Jay Peak to get in touch with other investors — to compare notes, figure out what to do. Former resort president Bill Stenger didn’t return a request for comment for this story, but Sutton says Stenger and others at the resort kept investors isolated. He felt stuck.

Then, he remembered: “In the back of my mind, I knew I had seen an email with the other investors’ contact information."

Sutton spent hours combing through six years of emails, in hopes he still had this one. And, he found it: Just email addresses. No names. But here was his link to his fellow Tram Haus investors.

“I basically emailed every single one of them and, basically, I got responses from probably 25-26 of the investors,” Sutton says.

So it began. Sutton became the hub connecting 20 or so people who collectively risked losing around $10 million or more from this deal. Sutton says some investors had cashed in all their chips for the chance to start a new life in America.

“To me, the fact that I had started it, the fact that I had got everybody talking and actually managed to overcome the isolation that Stenger had tried to keep us all in. I just felt as though I had just an obligation to carry on and try to understand more about the case,” Sutton says.

In Summer 2014, the investors retained a forensic accountant to inspect the Tram Haus financial records. That effort was blocked as well, he says, when Stenger insisted that the accountant sign a non-disclosure agreement before accessing the documents.

“Well, at the end of the day, what is the point of having an independent fraud investigator being gagged?”

Thwarted again, Sutton recalled a stack of paperwork he had never really looked through before: His successful petition for U.S. residency — known as an I-829. It proves job creation by detailing how investors' money was spent.

I think I was one of the only investors that actually asked for the hard copy,” Suttons says.

It’s a good thing he did.

“My I-829 file was probably four inches thick with documents … You name it … There is almost an A and to Zed index and everything is listed as part of the costs and business plan of the project.”
Sutton pored over these documents. One by one, his worst suspicions about Jay Peak’s finances crystallized. Roughly 700 investors from all over the world had put at least $350 million into eight projects — at Jay Peak, the Q Burke Mountain ski resort and the planned AnC biotech campus in Newport.

“At the time, I was looking at it with very inexperienced eyes,” Sutton says. “But of course, logic and common sense takes over and now time has gone by and you go back and you look at, was I making the right assumptions or was I way off base? I was spot on.”

Bank statements in the I-829 petition appeared to show co-mingling of funds among many of those EB-5 projects — and mixing the money is a big no-no. The documents also showed loan accounts, with investor money used as collateral — a huge red flag.

“It was a watershed moment in terms of knowing for a fact that all of the concerns that we had were fully justified,” Sutton says.
In November 2014, Sutton detailed his concerns in correspondence to state officials — who, because of their limited oversight, at the time didn’t even have access to the same documentation Sutton used.

Michael Pieciak went on to launch the state’s investigation of Jay Peak in February 2015. Pieciak is now Commissioner of the Department of Financial Regulation. He told VPR he credits Sutton’s letter, in part, with helping to launch that investigation.

The US Securities and Exchange Commission had long been on the case, though. State and federal fraud charges were filed against Quiros and Stenger in April of this year.

Quiros is fighting the lawsuits. Stenger settled with the SEC last week, but still faces state civil charges. And a criminal investigation of both men is ongoing.

And all this legal action supports in great detail Sutton’s suspicions from nearly two years ago."


http://digital.vpr.net/post/meet-london-car-dealer-who-broke-jay-peak-eb-5-fraud-case#stream/0


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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/9/2017 7:53:06 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How does investing in a real estate complex generate jobs?

If investing in real estate projects does not generate jobs for local Americans, then who the hell are the companies building those buildings? All foreign? There are so many American company suppliers involve in a building project for a start.

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RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/9/2017 8:04:44 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

To clarify.. the $500,000 investments are to be in high unemployment areas, and if its not a high unemployment area then the investment is to be $1 million..

Not the same. Your example would only be a parallel if Anthony Rodham was in China (or another country) himself, telling them that if they invested in [his] property or business (from which they would personally profit) they could get a visa.

This OP is about the president's family directly soliciting and receiving money for a property they owned and not 'run by.'

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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/9/2017 8:37:30 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

To clarify.. the $500,000 investments are to be in high unemployment areas, and if its not a high unemployment area then the investment is to be $1 million..

Not the same. Your example would only be a parallel if Anthony Rodham was in China (or another country) himself, telling them that if they invested in [his] property or business (from which they would personally profit) they could get a visa.

This OP is about the president's family directly soliciting and receiving money for a property they owned and not 'run by.'


She asked about corruption and peoples thoughts on the subject, meaning EB-5.. I gave my opinion on it, the EB-5 centers & far too many projects are totally corrupt or outright scams.. to me it doesnt matter if its clinton, kushner or tiffany's deal, there is too much corruption in various forms throughout the entire EB-5 program.. The concept of EB-5 for job creation is good, its the centers & projects that are bad & if it were up to me, I would want them all eliminated.. as I said, you should want entrepreneurs, not simply investors.. but jmo..

but ya know, all of this EB-5 shite is making the US look worse than the Nigerian king scam... if that's how you/American voters want to represent your country, well, whatever..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Kushner family pushes $500,000 ‘investor visa’ ... - 5/9/2017 8:44:33 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
This OP is about the president's family directly soliciting and receiving money for a property they owned and not 'run by.'

I am sure the President's family been promoting this Visa to China WAY before Trump was President. Just that the media didn't give a damn then!

Any businesses with any sense would. It's a Plus Point to gain investors.

I don't see how this is corruption at all.

And it's not like this special Visa was invented by Trump right? It exists in Obama's time, and Obama himself never gotten rid of it.

So I don't understand why should the President's family stop promoting this Visa just because one of their Family Members became President.


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 20
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