RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:25:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
While Comey was maligning Clinton, he never mentioned the FBI’s investigation into the Trump campaign.
But Republicans still refuse to accept the reality that Russia, a hostile foreign power, played a major role in electing Trump.


Why would he? An investigation into Trump-Russia ties has no bearing on what Hillary did (or didn't do, depending on your source).




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:26:19 PM)

However, the Russians are entirely capable of reverse engineering from what they're told to how it was gathered.

They're not new at this.




BoscoX -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:33:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

However, the Russians are entirely capable of reverse engineering from what they're told to how it was gathered.

They're not new at this.


How paranoid can a person be

Never get out of bed right, never say anything to anyone, never do anything

"They're always watching "

And can reverse engineer your thought process

(Buy your tin foil in bulk and save)




mnottertail -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:35:00 PM)

all the while Hillary runs the whole show, go back to gimping, you aint making it otherwise.




tamaka -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:35:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

However, the Russians are entirely capable of reverse engineering from what they're told to how it was gathered.

They're not new at this.


Well i guess it's a good test to see what they do then. They helped us end WWII.




Lucylastic -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:38:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
[image]http://i.imgur.com/mxMYtLb.jpg[/image]


Interesting to note that last tweet wasn't the end of the tweet-rant.
    quote:

    ...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/864438529472049152

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/trump-leaking-classified-information-reveals-003000725.html

According to the OP's link (Here it is again)
    quote:

    For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.
    ...
    White House officials involved in the meeting said Trump discussed only shared concerns about terrorism.

    “The president and the foreign minister reviewed common threats from terrorist organizations to include threats to aviation,” said H.R. McMaster, the national security adviser, who participated in the meeting. “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”
    ...
    In their statements, White House officials emphasized that Trump had not discussed specific intelligence sources and methods, rather than addressing whether he had disclosed information drawn from sensitive sources.
    ...
    Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat.


So, McMaster said that Trump didn't leak anything about sources or methods, and Trump didn't reveal "the specific intelligence-gathering method," according to the WaPo article.

I do think this story is less a stinging indictment on Trump and written more to lead people to a desired emotional response.


The second tweet was after the bottom tweet, the top tweet was the latest, I took it directly as a screen cap, its the timeline.
i just posted the capture, not a link, so the other info is meaningless to my point.
read from the bottom up.




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:41:58 PM)

“Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat,” Miller and Jaffe write. “The identification of the location was seen as particularly problematic, officials said, because Russia could use that detail to help identify the US ally or intelligence capability involved.”

No White House official has denied this aspect of the Post’s reporting. They appear to be playing, as Jaffe put it in an MSNBC appearance, “word games” — setting up a fake version of what the Post alleged, that Trump directly disclosed sources and methods, and then knocking that down.

In fact, the White House spin — particularly during McMaster’s Tuesday presser — ended up confirming some key aspects of the Post’s story.

“He [McMaster] confirmed that the president made an impulsive, unvetted decision to share info without even being aware of its source,” Julian Sanchez, an expert on privacy and surveillance at the libertarian Cato Institute, tweeted. “In other words: No review of the equities, no input from agencies on whether sources/methods could be reverse engineered.”

And it’s this “reverse engineering,” as Sanchez put it, that’s been the problem the whole time.

This will have a direct and tangible effect on US security.

It’s easy for us to think that the United States gets most of its intelligence from CIA spies, satellite photos, or NSA intercepts. The truth, though, is that the US relies heavily on exchanges with partners in foreign intelligence services — like Israel’s Mossad — especially when it comes to ISIS and other terrorist groups. The US depends vitally on its partners in the Middle East to get inside of those groups and figure out what they’re planning.

“As a matter of geography and language and culture, they are closer to the problem,” says Paul Pillar, a 28-year CIA veteran who worked on counterterrorism and the Middle East. “So they’re better able to collect against groups than we are.”

Given the magnitude of Trump’s breach, this will almost certainly lead the partner in question, Israel if the Times is right, to least temporarily suspend intelligence sharing with the United States.

That’s especially likely since it was Russia that Trump leaked to: The Israelis are deeply concerned about intelligence getting to the Iranians, and given that Russia is working closely with Iran to prop up Bashar al-Assad in Syria, there’s a very real risk that anything that gets to Moscow could end up in Tehran.

That is very bad. The Mossad is one of the world’s most effective and respected intelligence agencies, with a particular interest in Islamist terrorism. This coming just days before the president is traveling to Israel is … exceptionally awkward. The only silver lining is that Israel is less likely than some other partners, like Turkey, to keep the information channels between the US and their country closed for a long time.

What’s more, the Israelis appeared to have information in this case about an ISIS plot against flights inbound to the United States — information that, at least in theory, might have already saved lives. It’s possible that when the next ISIS threat comes up, the Israelis won’t share that information with the United States.

The breach also comes at a vital time for the ISIS fight. As the group continues to lose territory on the ground in Iraq and Syria, it will become harder to find ISIS terrorists as they blend into the population rather than fight openly to hold on to its “caliphate.” This makes it harder to get intel on the group’s activities, including international terrorist plots. So Trump may have just temporarily deprived the US of a source of vital information at an extremely important point in time.

And the implications go beyond Israel. The president has just shown that no foreign country, anywhere, can depend on the United States. Other allies — in Europe and East Asia as well as the Middle East — will wonder if the same thing will happen to them, and how much they can risk telling the United States at all.

The information Trump revealed was reportedly “code word” — the highest level of classification there is in the US government, one that hides it even from most people at the upper levels of the administration.

Yet it still got out, because the person at the top of the food chain is at best careless and at worst living up to preelection fears that he would give away too much to Moscow.

“It indicates utter disregard, or utter lack of knowledge, at the very top,” says Pillar. “Foreign partners will say, ‘My goodness, even if we’re given assurances of how carefully our information will be used — as long we’ve got this guy at the top who does this sort of thing, those US assurances don’t mean very much.’”

Hence why intelligence experts are so perturbed. Trump has committed a cardinal sin in the intel world, one that could jeopardize a major foundation of American power and security: its close cooperation with allies.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/16/15646762/trump-russia-classified-information-explainer




BoscoX -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:49:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
No White House official has denied this aspect of the Post’s reporting.


Well, except for General McMaster calling a press conference to say point blank that the premise of the entire article is a lie, of course

quote:

LT. GEN. H.R. McMASTER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I have a brief statement for the record. There is nothing that the president takes more seriously than the security of the American people. The story that came out tonight as reported is false. The president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation.

At no time, at no time, where intelligent sources or methods discussed. And the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. Two other senior officials who were present, including the Secretary of the State, remember the meeting the same way and have said so. Their on the record accounts should outweigh anonymous sources. I was in the room. It didn't happen.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster_the_story_that_came_out_tonight_as_reported_is_false.html




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:55:50 PM)

...and then Trump tweeting admitting that he did and had every right to do so.

This is not a tight ship. And the problem is the captain.




BoscoX -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 2:57:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...and then Trump tweeting admitting that he did and had every right to do so.

This is not a tight ship. And the problem is the captain.


The tweet said nothing like what you imagine, in your make-believe world




WickedsDesire -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:18:37 PM)

fall to your fuking knees you useless shit




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:23:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...and then Trump tweeting admitting that he did and had every right to do so.

This is not a tight ship. And the problem is the captain.


The tweet said nothing like what you imagine, in your make-believe world

Try again. It really did.




Lucylastic -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:27:53 PM)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/republicans-trump-russia-information-isis

Congressional GOP: Trump Told The Russians More Than He Told Us
Less than 24 hours after the bombshell revelation that President Donald Trump divulged sensitive, classified intelligence about an Islamic State plot with Russian officials, Republicans on Capitol Hill began complaining that the foreign power now had more information than they did about a potential national security threat.


“We need to have immediate classified briefings on what occurred at this meeting so that Congress can at least know as much as Russian leaders,” Rep. Barbara Comstock (R-VA) said Tuesday.

Rep. Mike Gallagher (R-WI), a former military intelligence officer, also demanded “a thorough account of the President’s meeting with Russian officials,” including “a transcript of the meeting.”

Several Republican Senators echoed these concerns, and called for similar briefings on the matter.

“If information was shared with the Russian ambassador, it seems to me it’d be okay to share with the U.S. Senate,” Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) griped to reporters Tuesday.

Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), who sits on the Intelligence Committee, called on the White House to brief the committee “immediately.”

The New York Times and other outlets revealed Tuesday that the source of the intelligence about the laptop explosives was Israel—and it was considered so sensitive that the Trump administration was instructed not to share it even with close allies like Canada and England, much less Russia

As Senate Democrats issued demands for the White House to release to lawmakers the full transcript of Trump’s meeting with the Russian ambassador and foreign minister—to determine exactly what intelligence was shared and to get caught up on the ISIS threat itself—some Republican lawmakers seemed uninterested in obtaining this information.

Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), the former chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told TPM that a transcript would be “interesting to see,” but then mused: “Do I need to see it? I probably don’t. And I don’t know if we’ll ever see it.”

Asked if Republicans should use their subpoena power to get the transcripts or recordings of the meeting, Shelby kept repeating: “We may never know.”

Other Republicans disputed their own colleagues’ assertion that they have been given less information than the Russians about the ISIS plot.

“That is not my understanding. That’s ridiculous,” Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) told TPM, adding that perhaps the lawmakers had said this “in jest.”

But even senior Republican lawmakers who lead relevant committees, including Foreign Relations Committee chair Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN), told TPM it was true that Trump seems to have revealed more to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak than to Congress.

“Certainly, more than I’m aware of,” he said. “Anything about the [ISIS laptop] threat is more than has been discussed with us.”




Nnanji -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:44:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
No White House official has denied this aspect of the Post’s reporting.


Well, except for General McMaster calling a press conference to say point blank that the premise of the entire article is a lie, of course

quote:

LT. GEN. H.R. McMASTER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I have a brief statement for the record. There is nothing that the president takes more seriously than the security of the American people. The story that came out tonight as reported is false. The president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation.

At no time, at no time, where intelligent sources or methods discussed. And the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. Two other senior officials who were present, including the Secretary of the State, remember the meeting the same way and have said so. Their on the record accounts should outweigh anonymous sources. I was in the room. It didn't happen.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster_the_story_that_came_out_tonight_as_reported_is_false.html


Oh come on Bosco. If it's not printed on Vox or MSNBC (with editorials about how a lefty loon should think about it) it didn't happen.




Nnanji -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:46:32 PM)

I'm waiting until someone picks up the NYT Comey memo.




Lucylastic -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:53:38 PM)

why?
the white house stepped up and said it wasnt true
what a shock




BoscoX -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:54:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...and then Trump tweeting admitting that he did and had every right to do so.

This is not a tight ship. And the problem is the captain.


The tweet said nothing like what you imagine, in your make-believe world

Try again. It really did.


[image]http://i.imgur.com/mxMYtLb.jpg[/image]

Here's the tweet

Where does he say anything like what you are pretending to see in your make-believe world




Nnanji -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 3:57:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

why?
the white house stepped up and said it wasnt true
what a shock

Because I know it will make you moist cutting and pasting it and you know I always want you to be happy.




Musicmystery -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 4:24:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...and then Trump tweeting admitting that he did and had every right to do so.

This is not a tight ship. And the problem is the captain.


The tweet said nothing like what you imagine, in your make-believe world

Try again. It really did.


[image]http://i.imgur.com/mxMYtLb.jpg[/image]

Here's the tweet

Where does he say anything like what you are pretending to see in your make-believe world

Yeah, it does. He admits sharing the information, directly contradicting McMasters.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump Revealed Highly Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador (5/16/2017 4:24:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
According to the OP's link (Here it is again)
    quote:

    For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.
    ...
    White House officials involved in the meeting said Trump discussed only shared concerns about terrorism.

    “The president and the foreign minister reviewed common threats from terrorist organizations to include threats to aviation,” said H.R. McMaster, the national security adviser, who participated in the meeting. “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”
    ...
    In their statements, White House officials emphasized that Trump had not discussed specific intelligence sources and methods, rather than addressing whether he had disclosed information drawn from sensitive sources.
    ...
    Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat.


So, McMaster said that Trump didn't leak anything about sources or methods, and Trump didn't reveal "the specific intelligence-gathering method," according to the WaPo article.

I do think this story is less a stinging indictment on Trump and written more to lead people to a desired emotional response.


The second tweet was after the bottom tweet, the top tweet was the latest, I took it directly as a screen cap, its the timeline.
i just posted the capture, not a link, so the other info is meaningless to my point.
read from the bottom up.


My error on the tweet screen cap. I do apologize.

The rest of my post is valid to the discussion.




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