Democracy vs. Prosperity

Democracy vs. Prosperity (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Democracy

62% (5)

Prosperity

37% (3)

Total Votes : 8

(last vote on : 5/31/2017 1:44:59 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

heavyblinker -> Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 1:28:25 AM)
I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever. If you had to choose one, which one would it be?

Musicmystery -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 7:47:43 AM)
They aren't opposed. In fact, one arguably contributes to the other, and vice versa. There are those, however, who continually sell the idea that lagging prosperity is the fault of others, thereby impinging on democracy, which actually hurts prosperity further, calling for more impingement, hurting it further, calling for yet more impingement . . . it's the history of the US from 1980 to the present. The question then becomes, prosperity for whom, which is how we got and widened income and class inequality, all the while getting people to call for yet more widening.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 7:59:59 AM)
its not an 'or' situation theres is no connection between the 2.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 8:04:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery They aren't opposed. In fact, one arguably contributes to the other, and vice versa. There are those, however, who continually sell the idea that lagging prosperity is the fault of others, thereby impinging on democracy, which actually hurts prosperity further, calling for more impingement, hurting it further, calling for yet more impingement . . . it's the history of the US from 1980 to the present. The question then becomes, prosperity for whom, which is how we got and widened income and class inequality, all the while getting people to call for yet more widening. there are no democracys in practice on the planet, it is a fraudulent make you feel good word so you create your own delusion that you are not a slave when in fact you are. There is no differnce between having 400 lawyers making laws for you or one person, either way you are disconnected.

Musicmystery -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 8:05:43 AM)
Thank you Captain Obvious.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 8:17:55 AM)
Obvious or lawnmower which would you prefer? [8\|] [img]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/spreaddem.jpg[/img]

Marini -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 9:46:46 AM)
What does a real democracy look like? I have never seen one.

BoscoX -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 9:49:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini What does a real democracy look like? I have never seen one. [image]http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/01/28/635895970939216498-424375130_Democrat-vs-Republican.gif[/image]

heavyblinker -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 10:17:02 AM)
Well, it's a hypothetical situation, not a statement... rooted in my everpresent fear that people are too stupid for democracy to work, which actually isn't mine alone: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108341/Is-reason-democracy-work-Study-humans-dumb-pick-right-person-lead-us.html So let's define 'democracy' as something in which popular opinion has at least some effect on the laws and actions taken by the government. There are relatively free and fair elections on the federal, provincial and municipal levels. The media is mindlessly partisan on both sides, but very free. Prosperity means everyone enjoys a reasonable degree of wealth and opportunity, and there is no overt oppression. And how about we throw in universal health care, education through college and extensive programs (not welfare, I mean actual services) to help people who don't have jobs.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 11:12:12 PM)
therein lies your biggest problem, the scope of democracy is not limited to electing which fucking attorney you want to represent you in the court we call congress. democracy requires full participation in every damn law passed and that can only be accompleished by PUBLIC referendum and vote on every issue, otherwise its a republic and disconnected from the voter since said representative attorneys cant read anyones fucking minds and the only way they coupld possibly know how to vote for us is through PUBLIC REFERENDUM for each issue. this country like the UK is called a democracy because al capone and the boys sit around the table and take a democratic vote what position you will take to be fucked next, hence a demobcratic gubmint IN PRACTICE.

heavyblinker -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/29/2017 11:54:02 PM)
People aren't interested in participating in every damn law passed. Most won't write their local representatives to state their concerns. And the majority aren't even interested in being properly informed. This isn't about whether or not democracy exists, it's essentially about whether you would prefer a prosperous, competently-run dictatorship to what we have now.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/30/2017 1:09:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker People aren't interested in participating in every damn law passed. They arent interested because the so called law is so fucking twisted out of shape its unintelligible and unrecognizable until of course they come face to face with judge dredd, then they get interested when they find out they cant have a same sex marriage or get needed medications because there is a law that some asshelmet run through preventing them from doing so. Even worse when they discover they cant get it because they are victims of gubmint+business rackteering. Here is a question back to you. Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable? People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed.

heavyblinker -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/30/2017 10:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable? People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed. [/color] Even if it were as honest and equitable as humanly possible, how would it be possible to even convince someone like you that this was the case?

Greta75 -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/30/2017 10:59:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever. If you had to choose one, which one would it be? I come from a country where we choose prosperity for ALL over Democracy, screw democracy if it brings poverty to all and sufferings and joblessness. So definitely Prosperity. I can deal with less freedom if nobody starve, everyone has easy access to jobs, easy access to good quality education and a culture of encouraging academic learning and self-improvement. I think Libya was another great example of like the ONLY African country that achieved a certain level of prosperity to all their citizens. Women were encouraged to be well educated. Everyone had homes, access to education, health care, and well taken care of. Until the damn US and their democracy bullshit by the "saviour" Obama came in and brought democracy to Libya and turn Libya into a wreck now back to typical African backwardness of non stop infighting and chaos. As you can't bring democracy to a country not ready for democracy. People get upset about Bush wrecking Iraq. But I just cannot stand how no left media complains about how Obama wreck Libya, especially, to be fair, Saddam I felt didn't alleviate poverty from his people. But Gaddafi definitely did for his people. And brought forward thinking of encouraging educating women considering it's a Muslim society.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 12:23:33 AM)
what you fail to undestand greta is that democracy is and always has been a fraud. all we do is vote for our next overlords and thats it, done for 4 years, or 6 whatever. Its so simple to do a coup and take over it ridiculous, just groom your people to run on both sides of the ticket as they have been doing for years here, and treat elections like foot ball playoffs. Like MM said in another thread we have a kleptocracy, frankly I like da' mobcracy because it saves people the need to grab a dictionary. We have a complete disconnect between the people and the gubmint by design yet everyione is smoking the freedom reefer and are beyond educating any of them.

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 12:26:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable? People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed. Even if it were as honest and equitable as humanly possible, how would it be possible to even convince someone like you that this was the case? someone just started a rothschild thread, in which case they made their fortune by cheating, no one or family should be able to enmasse more fucking wealth than a nation especialy the way they did, and the rocky fellers did and literally every one of those assholes are guilty of high crimes in the aquisition of the money. Piss them off and they get someone to start a war with you and suck your blood dry

blnymph -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 12:29:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever. If you had to choose one, which one would it be? Switzerland is a good example you can have both

Real0ne -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 12:30:31 AM)
thats no paradise either

blnymph -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 1:08:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne thats no paradise either paradise is a lovely story in books reality isn't perfect anywhere

heavyblinker -> RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity (5/31/2017 3:30:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever. If you had to choose one, which one would it be? I come from a country where we choose prosperity for ALL over Democracy, screw democracy if it brings poverty to all and sufferings and joblessness. So definitely Prosperity. I can deal with less freedom if nobody starve, everyone has easy access to jobs, easy access to good quality education and a culture of encouraging academic learning and self-improvement. I think Libya was another great example of like the ONLY African country that achieved a certain level of prosperity to all their citizens. Women were encouraged to be well educated. Everyone had homes, access to education, health care, and well taken care of. Until the damn US and their democracy bullshit by the "saviour" Obama came in and brought democracy to Libya and turn Libya into a wreck now back to typical African backwardness of non stop infighting and chaos. As you can't bring democracy to a country not ready for democracy. People get upset about Bush wrecking Iraq. But I just cannot stand how no left media complains about how Obama wreck Libya, especially, to be fair, Saddam I felt didn't alleviate poverty from his people. But Gaddafi definitely did for his people. And brought forward thinking of encouraging educating women considering it's a Muslim society. Maybe they weren't complaining about Obama because it was NATO who intervened in Libya, not Obama. And they were in the middle of a civil war.

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