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Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:28:52 AM   
Lucylastic


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A yearlong investigation by The Associated Press finds roughly 17,000 official reports of sexual assaults by students in K-12 schools over a four-year period. The numbers are the most complete tally among the nation's 50 million K-12 students.

Kids are raping kids at school. Here’s why schools often don’t do anything about it

BRUNSWICK, MAINE
Chaz Wing was 12 when they came after him. The classmates who tormented him were children, too, entering the age of pimples and cracking voices.

Eventually, he swore under oath, the boys raped him and left him bleeding, the culmination of a year of harassment. Though Chaz repeatedly told teachers and administrators about insults and physical attacks, he didn’t report being sexually assaulted until a year later, launching a long legal fight over whether his school had done enough to protect him.

Chaz’s saga is more than a tale of escalating bullying. Across the U.S., thousands of students have been sexually assaulted, by other students, in high schools, junior highs and even elementary schools – a hidden horror educators have long been warned not to ignore.

Relying on state education records, supplemented by federal crime data, a yearlong investigation by The Associated Press uncovered roughly 17,000 official reports of sex assaults by students over a four-year period, from fall 2011 to spring 2015.

Though that figure represents the most complete tally yet of sexual assaults among the nation’s 50 million K-12 students, it does not fully capture the problem because such attacks are greatly under-reported, some states don’t track them and those that do vary widely in how they classify and catalog sexual violence. A number of academic estimates range sharply higher.

recordsTraining
“Schools are required to keep students safe,” said Charol Shakeshaft, a Virginia Commonwealth University professor who specializes in school sexual misconduct. “It is part of their mission. It is part of their legal responsibility. It isn’t happening. Why don’t we know more about it, and why isn’t it being stopped?”

Elementary and secondary schools have no national requirement to track or disclose sexual violence, and they feel tremendous pressure to hide it. Even under varying state laws, acknowledging an incident can trigger liabilities and requirements to act.

And when schools don’t act – or when their efforts to root out abuse are ineffectual – justice is not served.

This, Chaz Wing said in his lawsuit against the Brunswick school district, is precisely what happened to him.

Though both sides contest whether any rapes occurred, the AP found that school administrators allowed Chaz’s bullying to escalate and then failed to adequately investigate his allegations of sexual abuse.

From almost his first day at Brunswick Junior High, Chaz said kids harassed him, taunted him about his weight and subjected him to ordeals like a “gay test.” Complaining to teachers and administrators didn’t help, he said. He slid into depression and refused to go to school.

Then one day in 2012, his mom came home and found him curled up in her bed, rocking back and forth. She begged him to tell her what was wrong. Slowly, his words came out.

“They hurt me,” he cried.

He said he’d been raped. Three times.

Chaz told police, child-abuse investigators and lawyers under oath that he kept quiet about the assaults for nearly a year because of threats against him and his family if he talked.

Sexual abuse allegations can be difficult to investigate. Because many accusers initially keep quiet, physical evidence can be long gone once investigators step in. Often, there are no eyewitnesses, leaving only the conflicting accounts of the accuser and the accused.

What Chaz told authorities and investigators – multiple times over four years – remained consistent, an AP review of government and court records shows. And a child-abuse examiner wrote of “strong evidence” that Chaz was sexually assaulted.

The school district staunchly defends how it handled its investigation. The junior high principal said his inquiry determined that the sexual assaults were “very unlikely.” One of the accused boys, he noted, had never even heard of anal rape.

“There is – as there should be – always an inclination to believe allegations of sexual assault at the outset,” district lawyer Melissa Hewey said in an email to AP. “But sometimes, the evidence compels the conclusion that those allegations are false.”

“The little boys who were accused,” she said, “are the real victims in this case and they deserve to be protected.”

A HIDDEN PROBLEM

Children remain most vulnerable to sexual assaults by other children in the privacy of a home, according to AP’s review of the federal crime data, which allowed for a more detailed analysis than state education records. But schools – where many more adults are keeping watch, and where parents trust their kids will be kept safe – are the No. 2 site where juveniles are sexually violated by their peers.

Ranging from rape and sodomy to forced oral sex and fondling, the sexual violence that AP tracked often was mischaracterized as bullying, hazing or consensual behavior. It occurred anywhere students were left unsupervised: buses and bathrooms, hallways and locker rooms. No type of school was immune, whether it be in an upper-class suburb, an inner-city neighborhood or a blue-collar farm town.

And all types of children were vulnerable, not just kids like Chaz who have trouble fitting in.

Unwanted fondling was the most common form of assault, but about one in five of the students assaulted were raped, sodomized or penetrated with an object, according to AP’s analysis of the federal incident-based crime data.

About 5 percent of the sexual violence involved 5- and 6-year-olds. But the numbers increased significantly between ages 10 and 11 – about the time many students start their middle-school years – and continued rising up until age 14. They then dropped as students progressed through their high school years.

The AP counted only the most severe forms of sexual assault, excluding categories that were more broadly termed, such as sexual harassment, or behavior like kissing on the playground.

Contrary to public perception, data showed that student sexual assaults by peers were far more common than those by teachers. For every adult-on-child sexual attack reported on school property, there were seven assaults by students, AP’s analysis of the federal crime data showed.

Schools frequently were unwilling or ill-equipped to address the problem, AP found, despite having long been warned by the U.S. Supreme Court that they could be liable for monetary damages. Some administrators and educators even engaged in cover-ups to hide evidence of a possible crime and protect their schools’ image.

“No principal wants their school to be the rape school, to be listed in the newspaper as being investigated. Schools try to bury it. It’s the courageous principal that does the right thing,” said Dr. Bill Howe, a former K-12 teacher who spent 17 years overseeing Connecticut’s state compliance with Title IX, the federal law used to help protect victims of sexual assault in schools.

Laws and legal hurdles also favor silence. Schools have broadly interpreted rules protecting student and juvenile privacy to withhold basic information about sexual attacks from their communities. Victims and their families face high legal thresholds to successfully sue school districts for not maintaining safe learning environments.

“Everyone feels like we don’t have a problem, and the reason they feel that way is they have their heads in the sand,” said Oregon psychologist Wilson Kenney, who has helped develop student intervention programs.

Student-on-student sexual assaults live in the shadows compared to the attention paid to gun violence in schools, most notably the Newtown shooting, Kenney noted. “There’s no Sandy Hook for sexual misconduct. But I think the potential harm is great,” he said.

Chaz’s legal fight with Brunswick Junior High offers a rare insight into a school investigation of student sexual assault allegations.

The AP reviewed about 1,500 pages of sworn testimony, emails, court documents and investigative reports, as well as videotaped depositions of 15 school administrators, teachers and police, and interviews with a dozen people tied to the case.

School and district officials declined AP’s interview requests. So did parents of some of the students accused in the attacks, except to say their sons were innocent.

The AP does not usually name alleged victims of sexual assault, but Chaz and his parents decided to speak publicly in hopes of helping others.

“I don’t want this to happen to other kids,” said his mom, Amy Wing.

WARNING SIGNS

From Chaz’s first days at Brunswick Junior High in September 2010, teachers say it was clear he was the type of kid bullies would target.

Overweight with a brown mullet, he had unpopular opinions and wasn’t shy about expressing them. He despised sports, video games and pop music. When other boys showed up for a class project in soccer jerseys, he displayed his love of gardening by wearing a hat and gloves, carrying a trowel and handing out flower-shaped sugar cookies.

Early on, Chaz testified in his lawsuit, several boys cornered him at his locker, mocking him and calling him fat. What bothered him most, though, was the “gay test.” Feeling a light touch on his shoulder in social studies class, he brushed off a boy’s hand. Seconds later, it was back. It was a test, he was told: If he didn’t notice for 10 seconds, he must like it and be gay. Before long, half the boys in the class were doing it.

“Why are they so mean?” Chaz often asked Amy when he came home. “Why do they hate me?”

Initially, Amy urged him to ignore the bullying and try to get along with others. But after the “gay test” began, she also encouraged him to report incidents as they happened and so he did, dozens and dozens of times to teachers, his guidance counselor and the principal. He complained so often that he came to be seen as an overly sensitive nuisance.

One teacher asked Chaz if he was gay, he testified. “I told her ‘no' and she said then don’t worry about it.”

Finally, Chaz made an appointment to see the principal, Walter Wallace, who had formed an anti-bullying committee shortly after joining the school. In early 2010, Wallace testified, Brunswick students had participated in a survey in which 1 in 6 pupils reported being regularly physically victimized. Wallace implemented a system for documenting student abuse, but it recorded only complaints that were confirmed and then only in the files of the accused, not the victim.

In their meeting in late 2010, Chaz said he detailed the harassment – but the problems continued. Wallace later testified he spoke to the boys Chaz identified and “never heard about it again.” But Chaz said another wave started with a different set of boys.

By January 2011, losing patience, Amy first met with Wallace. “It needs to stop,” she told him. Two weeks later, as the bullying continued, she was back in his office.

Wallace later told her he’d talked to the four main instigators and at least one acknowledged taking part in the “gay test.”

Chaz entered Brunswick Junior High with a “gifted and talented” designation, but by the time he started seventh grade in fall 2011, his academic marks had dropped. His harassment complaints were consuming so much of teachers’ time that they asked Wallace and his vice principal to take over.

“It wasn’t happening when we were watching and we were trying to keep a close eye on it,” one teacher testified, “but it was always around the corner and away from us.”

The principal said he thought Chaz was becoming overly sensitive and made many reports teachers could not substantiate. But Chaz’s seventh-grade counselor, Bunny Andrews, testified that she became “very, very concerned” as incidents began to pile up.

“Chaz was bullied,” she said. “I could never deny that.”

Then the physical torment he was experiencing escalated dramatically, Chaz testified: In November 2011, he said, he was sexually assaulted by classmates for the first time.

According to the lawsuit, the boys crawled under the door of the bathroom stall, put the blade of a small knife against his wrist, ordered him to the ground and overpowered him. After they raped him, Chaz said, one boy threatened to burn down his house, harm his family and kill his pets if anyone found out – then sliced into his right arm.

By the following February, Amy noticed Chaz was stressed and unable to complete his work, so she contacted the school.

That was around the time Chaz said he was raped again. He testified he had been changing clothes for gym in a locker-room stall because he felt self-conscious about his looks. A different boy pushed his way in past a broken lock as a second boy stood guard outside.

The boy forced him against the wall and ripped down his shorts, Chaz said, and it was over in less than two minutes. He stayed silent, he said, cowed by the threats of the first assault.

One day in late spring – Chaz can’t recall whether it was April or May – the school’s power went out shortly before lunch so he left class early to beat the crowd to the cafeteria. As he passed a bathroom, he testified, he was grabbed from behind, dragged inside and pinned against the back wall. It was too dark to see his attackers, but he felt a boy on either side hold his arms. After they finished raping him, he said, he stuffed toilet paper in his underwear to stop the bleeding.

Again, Chaz didn’t speak out, he said, because he was afraid.

Still, records show the school knew Chaz’s bullying had become more physical, including an attack he reported in which he was stabbed with a pencil, with the lead breaking off in his arm.

In June, school officials created a safety plan that included a teacher escorting him between classes. Two days later, after others gave him grief, Chaz told his escort, “Please, just don’t. This is making things worse.”

By the end of seventh grade, Chaz was missing days of class and was easily agitated and angry. Amy called a lawyer at a non-profit defense fund who thought Chaz might have a case because he was bullied over his perceived sexuality.

On the last day of class, Amy marched into the school district’s office for a copy of its anti-bullying policy. Two weeks later, she filed a complaint with the Maine Human Rights Commission – kicking off the legal fight that lasted more than four years.

OBLIGATED TO ACT

Studies have long found bullying can be a precursor to sexual harassment and assault. Typically, victims’ grades drop, attendance falls and rates of depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts increase. Schools sometimes miss the warning signs, though, and think it’s just “kids being kids.”

“There’s just a reluctance to see that there’s sexual violence at such a young age,” said Dorothy Espelage, who researched sexual offenses and harassment among middle schoolers while at the University of Illinois.

In October 2010 and April 2011, the U.S. Education Department reminded public school districts that Title IX obligates them to act on bullying and sexual violence. They are required to investigate – separate from any police inquiry – and take prompt action. The department specifically called out anti-gay slurs, sexual remarks, physical harm and unwanted touching – much of what Chaz testified he was telling school officials.

School districts have had to report all sorts of data about students, from those who received free lunches to those who brought in firearms. But there is no federal mandate to track sexual violence.

By contrast, colleges and universities must keep a public crime log, send emergency alerts about sexual assaults, train staff and aid victims under a federal law named for a student who was raped and murdered in 1986.

“Obviously, we care enough to make colleges report,” said Kansas City, Mo., lawyer Chris Dove, who has represented peer sex-abuse victims. “Shouldn’t we care even more about kids under 18?”

ageGender
Whether – and how – school sexual violence is tracked is determined by individual states, AP found, with wide variations in whether that information is verified or any training on student-on-student sexual assault is required. A survey of state education departments found:

32 states and the District of Columbia track student sexual assaults, though some did so only if incidents led to discipline like suspension or expulsion; the other states, including Maine, did not.
18 states reported they had training requirements for teachers, school administrators or students about peer-on-peer sex assault.
Some of the nation’s largest school districts reported zero sexual assaults over a multi-year period, and some state education officials told AP they doubted their districts’ numbers.
In multiple cases, AP found that school districts bungled investigations, failed to supervise students they knew were trouble, neglected to inform authorities or worse.

A Mississippi high school failed to secure a computer lab that was the scene of a girl’s alleged rape in 2014 and janitors cleaned it before law enforcement could collect evidence, according to court records. District lawyers said that happened because the girl didn’t initially say the sex was forced. The three boys accused were suspended but returned to class days later.

A Missouri middle-school boy with a disciplinary record of groping girls fondled a female student on a school bus in 2014 and told a school official, “I can’t seem to stop,” according to a police report. When he moved to the district’s high school the next year, he allegedly assaulted a girl in a classroom, police said. The boy claimed it was consensual and was initially suspended for 10 days, but later was charged with second-degree rape, the report said.

And in Iowa in 2013, parents didn’t report their daughter’s allegations of sexual assault to authorities because the elementary school principal indicated he would do so. They found out months later that didn’t happen when they sought the police case number, according to the family’s lawsuit. The parents then contacted authorities, and a sheriff’s investigator took over. The results of his findings in the juvenile case are confidential.

When schools mishandle such cases, victims often have little recourse. Prosecutors are sometimes reluctant to charge kids, and clearing legal hurdles to sue districts is difficult.

A federal court in Alabama blocked the case of a 14-year-old girl who said she was used as “rape bait” and assaulted in 2010 in a botched plan to catch a boy suspected of sexual misconduct. Her case did not meet the legal standards to hold the school district liable, the judge wrote, even though he said the plan, devised by a middle school teacher’s aide, was “foolish” and backfired “horribly.” The ruling was successfully appealed, and the district ultimately settled for $200,000.



There is more at the link.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/national/article147796139.html


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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 6:36:02 AM   
WickedsDesire


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K-12?

And yes of course it happens at schools, and outwith schools - the heinous acts have been going on since the beginning of time. And indeed legal in some cultures.

Arnt many of these cases sealed - whatever that means in America

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 6:48:23 AM   
Greta75


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Legal in what cultures precisely?

The biggest problem with kid on kid rape is because you are dealing with underage assault on underage.

What is the appropriate punishment when like a 10 yr old rapes a 8 yr old?

I think people haven't really figured out how to deal with child heinous crimes.

But definitely both parties, all parties involved needs ALOT of therapy to fix their problems.







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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 6:58:08 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Cultures is self explanatory greta75
age of consent not so much, 16 UK here, Singapore is?
Age of consent differs from rape because rape is rape - we will over look they had four beer arguments or was off their head on booze...on this thread.

The appropriate punishment? I am uncertain. What do you think and lets go with the 10 on 8 example you cited, and exclude cultures where you can marry someone at 4.

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 7:04:20 AM   
Greta75


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In cultures where you can marry a 4 yr old to an adult is totally different from like a 5 yr old raping a 5 yr old.

Because when an adult is involve, one is suppose to be the mature one.

So for example, it's easier to punish in the west, the older person who marry the 4 yr old and consummate the marriage.

But how do you punish a 5 yr old for raping another 5 yr old? Alot of times, when kids do bullying, they don't even think of it as anything sexual.

They just know, "I want to hurt this person, putting something in their ass will hurt them." That's it.

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 7:15:04 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Rape is rape I already said that.

When does a person reach emotional maturity?
What about men
What about women

You are now actually talking about sexual assault which is a little different.

But there seems to be disparity the older the person is and what happens to them and how they are treated and punished.

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 7:25:35 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
But there seems to be disparity the older the person is and what happens to them and how they are treated and punished.

There has to be disparity.

The mental ability to properly discern right from wrong is much lesser at 5 yr old, compared to at 50 yr old.

And those men that do marry 4 yr olds in certain countries are usually like already far into their 50's and 60's.

I personally want death penalty for an adult being an aggressor of any rape. But I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like being a parent of a child that is capable of rape, especially at a young age. Gosh! Like what would you do to your kid?

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 7:58:56 AM   
WickedsDesire


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its not clear cut greta75
and neither is right from wrong

but in your latest example of 50 v 4, and also applying that to cultures I tend to agree - hanging greta75

There have been a spate of stories in the UK and American press lately regarding usually women teachers and their students


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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 8:11:04 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

There have been a spate of stories in the UK and American press lately regarding usually women teachers and their students


Well, you have the French President having an affair with his married high school teacher when he was 15 and she was 40. And now she is the first lady.

So you know, that is gonna validate alot more teacher-student relationships.

Personally, I am so not into the maturity of young boys, I can't even begin to fathom what's the attraction in such relationships. Especially a teenage boy with a much older woman.

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 9:36:50 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
But there seems to be disparity the older the person is and what happens to them and how they are treated and punished.

There has to be disparity.

The mental ability to properly discern right from wrong is much lesser at 5 yr old, compared to at 50 yr old.

And those men that do marry 4 yr olds in certain countries are usually like already far into their 50's and 60's.

I personally want death penalty for an adult being an aggressor of any rape. But I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like being a parent of a child that is capable of rape, especially at a young age. Gosh! Like what would you do to your kid?


Are you referring to Muslim countries, where sexual enslavement and rape of and other forms of brutality against girls and women and non-Muslim 'subhumans' is encouraged?



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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 9:52:31 AM   
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No I think that its quite clear that they are talking about nutsucker private voucher schools here.

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 9:58:29 AM   
WhoreMods


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When was blathering about the moslems adopted as a cultural equivalent of the "...but Obama!" excuse by the neocon massive in here?

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RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 11:54:18 AM   
kkaliforniaa


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The appropriate punishment when a 10 year old rapes an 8 year old is jail! You know, there are jails for people under 21 years old! The context would be equally important. Yes, anything that isn't consensual is wrong, but there's a difference between mild curiousity and being aggressive. People of all ages have been playing the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" game for centuries, it doesn't mean every person who plays should be sent to jail, regardless of age. This gets tricky because consensual sex between teenagers could be considered rape because both parties may be too young to legally consent, thus they commited statuatory rape [I think]. Like they say, "let the punishment fit the crime".. .. Yes, people have figured out how to punish this sort of crime. You just don't pay attention to these sorts of matters to be informed.

The issue isn't just punishing the kids. How does a FIVE YEAR OLD [I didn't read the articles so I'm just guessing based on comments] get the idea to shove anything in another person's body!! Depending on what can be proven, and the moral character of the parents, maybe they should be punished as well.

Okay. There is a difference between mature and educated. One can be mature without being educated.. I'd say MANY people aren't emotionally mature until well past 25 years old!! Unfortunately maturity doesn't factor in when prosecuting crimes.

Greta, please provide sources that state men in their 50s and 60s are marrying FOUR YEAR OLDS!! You seem misinformed!! There are two things that come to mind when I saw your comment about that. 1. "men" in Africa used to have sex with infants because they believed it cured HIV/AIDS! I'm fairly certain they stopped doing that at least TEN years ago, if not more. 2. child brides. This may happen in a variety of ways. 1. Parents may arrange for two children to get married when they're toddlers BUT won't marry them until they're of legal age, AND at that point the "children" can decide to walk away from each other!! 2. Poverty. Parents may or may not know the husband before marrying their daughter off [this isn't much different than human trafficking, of which you made no mention of. At least with child brides there is a chance the husband won't be a criminal, at least in the harshest sense of the word]. What would you do in a situation like this? When it's a matter of the entire family starving or selling a child so you can put food on the table for the next month. I'm not saying this is right but judge not lest ye be judged.. Also, just because you get married doesn't mean you're going to have sex. Some guy could be trying to help a family out, getting someone to maintain his house while he's at work, have dinner on the table for when he gets home. A cheap housekeeper.. Would you be outraged if you heard this was what was happening? Yes, some of these guys are having sex with pre-pubescent girls, but chances are they are poorly educated, socially undeveloped, or morally corrupt [only one being inexcusable]. Any "man" looking for a mother for his children though isn't going to be 50+ years old. That makes no sense. 1. the life expectancy in these countries stops around that age 2. the younger she is, the 1. more expensive she will be 2. the longer it will take to start popping out babies. So it makes more sense that 30-40 year olds pay for teenagers if they're interested in breeding, because at least she will be old enough to have some idea of how to take care of a baby should something happen to him. [the chart at the Child Marriage link only says "before 18", technically 16 and 17 are before 18. Yes, the article mentions younger ages but.. Refer to logic]

Now! Look at the charts from the Child Marriage link and Education Index link. Do you see any trends? Compare the Education Index of the United States/United Kingdom/France/etc to that of countries where child brides are common. Now do you see a trend? In countries that have high percentages of child brides under 18 years old, the lower the Education Index. Hmm. If only there was something that could be done about that!!.. Oh! If you want to get even more into it.. Look at the link for Prevalence of Birth Control link. If 20% or less of people in countries where child brides are common, are using birth control, do you really think people are aware of how dangerous it is to have sex with a minor.. Many governments are trying to make marriage of anyone under 18 years old illegal, but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers.

As for rape and child brides, excluding the morally corrupt. Men are doing what they've been doing for millenia. Are you going to press charges against your neighbors dog because Fido had his way with your pet poodle, Fifi? If you honestly don't know something is wrong [as in dangerous, medically not safe, etc] how can you be punished for it. If we bring marital rape to the table, like that in countries where burkas and the like are "haute couture", husbands in those cultures may be worse than husbands of child brides. One is exposed to other cultures yet continues to oppress his wife, the other simply isn't educated.

And remember, it wasn't that long ago when teenagers were being married off to people 10+ years older than them. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for them. So call your great-great-great-etc-grandfather a rapist just as quickly as you call these uneducated people!!


As for the French President. No it's not going to suddenly validate student/teacher relationships. You really think school boards are suddenly going to allow teachers to have sex with their teenage students? How does that make sense? They claim it wasn't sexual. They waited until after he graduated [whether that was high school or university I don't know. They got married in 2007, he graduated from university in 2004. I'm guessing they waited to reignite their relationship until after he graduated from university.. She wasn't even divorced until 2006!!]. She's still teaching, so either the school boards trust her, or the President is corrupt.. It's not the first time a student/teacher relationship was crossed, and it certainly won't be the last.
http://www.therichest.com/shocking/15-of-the-most-disturbing-student-teacher-relationships-ever/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#Child_marriage_by_region
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_birth_control

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:13:27 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

Greta, please provide sources that state men in their 50s and 60s are marrying FOUR YEAR OLDS!! You seem misinformed!!


Not Africa. Middle East duh! Muslim Arab men! They have proper Islamic divorce laws for pre-puberscent girls ya know. Like the divorce can be immediate IF the girl has not had her period yet. Or how they gotta wait for 3 months to see if she is pregnant before he is allowed to divorce her IF she already hit puberty and had her period.

It's normal Islamic stuffs. The last time I saw an English version of these laws was in my own country Sharia court. BUT they have removed it from their website. And laws on divorce for middle eastern sites are all in arabic. I should have screen shot and kept a record.

The difference is, these days, with social media, people could create such a big fuss about these, but in my country, they try to keep alot of Islamic negative Islamic practices hush hush to keep racial and religious harmony. Like their privileges to have four wives, and of course this pre-pubscent marriage bullshit. Many Singaporeans are unaware that it is legal for Muslims in Singapore to have 4 wives. They assume those with multiple wives are doing it illegally. I mean not officially married and just married at the Mosque or something. But it is legal in their Sharia court that is recognized by the government as a legally binding marriage. Muslims in Singapore are not allowed to get married in civil courts, so their only option is sharia court.

Okay, I finally found what I saw in Singaporean Sharia court website which they removed only very recently.

3 – If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise…”

[al-Talaaq 65:4]


https://islamqa.info/en/12667

Any more doubts that pre-puberscent marriages occur in Islam? They got freaking divorce laws for it!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/11/2017 12:47:45 PM >

(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:18:48 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
FR
BTW MR Longwayhome!

Your disgusting UK Sharia COURTS that you support, I remembered you even claim that sharia court treats women fairer in divorce than civil courts:

http://www.islamic-sharia.org/talaq/

Due to the financial responsibilities which he has to bear, the right to divorce in Islam is primarily given to the husband. A Muslim who wishes to divorce his wife is therefore advised – in the first instance – to ask for an arbitration meeting, arranged by elders of the couple so that a reconciliation may be reached. If such efforts fail and the man sincerely thinks he cannot live a harmonious life with his wife, he may divorce her either verbally or in writing. In both cases, it is recommended for there to be two witnesses present on the occasion of the pronouncement of such a divorce.

This makes me fucking angry that a western country supports and allows this type of bullshit!

This place is definitely in the UK, look at it's address:

THE ISLAMIC SHARIA COUNCIL

34 FRANCIS ROAD
LEYTON
LONDON
E10 6PW

Fuck protecting Islam! This is bullshit!

It's like lalalala, let's hold hands and all Muslims are innocent! They don't abuse women, lalalalala! Those who speak against them are the evil ones!

And lalalala, their sharia courts oppressing the fuck out of women.

And this website claims that "The Council’s divorce certificates are increasingly recognized in Muslim countries and in embassies of Muslim-majority countries as valid. English family court judges and solicitors are also treating them as valid religious certificates."

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/11/2017 12:41:10 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:27:54 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
so she would be 80 now and he 160?

My knee i will gag you and then sell you for a dull penny - I may keep you and reprogram you

_____________________________

wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:34:50 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa
As for the French President. No it's not going to suddenly validate student/teacher relationships. You really think school boards are suddenly going to allow teachers to have sex with their teenage students? How does that make sense? They claim it wasn't sexual. They waited until after he graduated [whether that was high school or university I don't know. They got married in 2007, he graduated from university in 2004. I'm guessing they waited to reignite their relationship until after he graduated from university.. She wasn't even divorced until 2006!!]. She's still teaching, so either the school boards trust her, or the President is corrupt.. It's not the first time a student/teacher relationship was crossed, and it certainly won't be the last.


Dude, that's not what I read. I read that they had sex when he was 15 and she was 40. Then his parents found out about it. Got really mad, told her to stay away from him. And also pulled him out of the school and send him far far away from her.

Why would the parents get so mad if no sexual intercourse has happened and they were just friends? Alarm enough to send him as far away from her as possible?

And in France, from what i understand, it's not a crime since 15 yr old is a consensual legal age to have sex. And in France, there is no law like the UK or US against educators fucking their students. It's perfectly legal.

(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:38:09 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

so she would be 80 now and he 160?

My knee i will gag you and then sell you for a dull penny - I may keep you and reprogram you


Or he simply fucks her and divorce her and abandon her. Easy!

It's not like he is obligated to support her for life if he divorces her.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:49:28 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
His age
her age
?

_____________________________

wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Kids are raping kids at school. - 6/11/2017 12:54:44 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

His age
her age
?

What are you talking about? A 50 yr old Muslim can marry a 4 yr old woman. Fuck her. And then, divorce her. So you don't have to worry about him turning too old because it doesn't matter when he could just divorce her after fucking her.

3 – If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise…”

[al-Talaaq 65:4]


https://islamqa.info/en/12667

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 20
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