17yo girl charged with murder by texting (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/13/2017 5:21:31 PM)


quote:


Her texts pushed him to suicide, prosecutors say. But does that mean she killed him?

Sitting in his pickup truck one summer day in 2014, Conrad Roy III wavered about his plan to kill himself.

He got out of his vehicle and texted his girlfriend that he was scared, court records say.

“Get back in,” she replied.

Roy did.

The 18-year-old who had long battled depression and suicidal thoughts succumbed to carbon monoxide. He was found dead the following day in a Kmart parking lot several miles outside Boston. His girlfriend, 17-year-old Michelle Carter, was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Now, nearly three years later, Carter is on trial in a controversial case that experts say raises new and contentious questions: Can a person be charged and convicted in someone’s death even if she was not with the victim when he died? And can a person be found guilty of killing someone based solely on what she said in text messages?

Such questions are critical in a state such as Massachusetts, where assisting someone in a suicide is not considered a crime.

The prosecution’s most damning evidence against Carter, now 20: Dozens upon dozens of text messages they allege pushed Roy to kill himself.

[An 11-year-old boy killed himself after his girlfriend faked her death. She’s now facing charges.]

During opening statements Tuesday, prosecuting attorney Maryclare Flynn said Carter played a “sick game” with Roy’s life and accused her of seeking sympathy and attention by being the “grieving girlfriend,” ABC affiliate WCVB reported.

Carter’s attorney, Joseph Cataldo, said Roy’s suicidal tendencies predated his relationship with Carter.

“It was Conrad Roy’s idea to take his own life; it was not Michelle’s idea,” Cataldo said, according to WCVB. “This was a suicide — a sad and tragic suicide, but not a homicide.”

Roy’s mother, Lynn, testified that although her son was “a little depressed,” there was no indication he might kill himself, MassLive.com reported. He was a recent high school graduate who had just been accepted to Fitchburg State University to study business, she said.

The two exchanged hundreds of text messages for several days before Roy killed himself. In one, she implied that he would be better off dead: “You’re finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain. It’s okay to be scared and it’s normal. I mean, you’re about to die.”

They also texted early in the morning of July 12, 2014, hours before Roy’s suicide. In some of the exchanges, Carter appeared to be faulting Roy for delaying it.

“So I guess you aren’t gonna do it then, all that for nothing … I’m just so confused like you were so ready and determined,” she said.

When Roy said he wanted to go back to sleep, Carter suggested that “now” is the best time to do it because everyone was still sleeping.

“Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one’s really out right now because it’s an awkward time,” she said.

In another text that same day, she kept pushing.

“I thought you wanted to do this. The time is right and you’re ready … just do it babe,” she said.

[‘It’s now or never’: Texts reveal teen’s efforts to pressure boyfriend into suicide]

Shortly after Roy died, Carter told a friend that she was talking to him on the phone when he killed himself.

“I helped ease him into it and told him it was okay … I could’ve easily stopped him or called the police but I didn’t,” she texted her friend.

Daniel Medwed, a law and criminal justice professor at Northeastern University, said Carter’s text messages arguably encouraged Roy. What prosecutors will have to prove this week is whether Carter’s encouragement resulted in his death.

“Prosecutors will have to prove that Carter causes Conrad Roy to kill himself and essentially caused his death,” Medwed told The Washington Post. “Defense lawyers are going to argue that he’s had suicidal tendencies predating their relationship. They’re going to emphasize that he was alone in his car, that ultimately it was his decision. …
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/06/just-do-it-babe-woman-accused-of-pushing-her-boyfriend-to-kill-himself-is-on-trial-this-week/?utm_term=.ec5b2de66bb8


I have mixed feelings about this.

First blush the state is making quite the reach in this one.




CreativeDominant -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/13/2017 5:44:15 PM)

He made his own choices. Did she help the process along? Well, she doesn't appear to come down on the side of him staying alive...a rather heartless little number. And at the age of 18...with his brain not being fully adult...it could be argued that her texts were a form of bullying. But still, if it can be argued that an 18 year old is old enough to carry a gun for his country, he's old enough to make his own choice about ending his life. It is going to be an interesting psychological battle in court.




vincentML -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/13/2017 8:52:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

He made his own choices. Did she help the process along? Well, she doesn't appear to come down on the side of him staying alive...a rather heartless little number. And at the age of 18...with his brain not being fully adult...it could be argued that her texts were a form of bullying. But still, if it can be argued that an 18 year old is old enough to carry a gun for his country, he's old enough to make his own choice about ending his life. It is going to be an interesting psychological battle in court.


I think you can't have it both ways. If his brain is not fully developed (I agree it was not) then his choice was not reliable. The reason he can carry a gun for his country is because he has muscles and his war masters need cannon fodder.

Being of similar age, her brain was not reliable. Really a cold bitch, hey?




Termyn8or -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/13/2017 11:20:34 PM)

FR

Well I am glad someone brought this shit up. This comes down to cyberbullying and all that you know. But my opinion remains the same - you you can be talked into killing yourself over words on a screen or even what people say to you, then you are not very strong. Personally, I am taking the plunge pretty soon but it it is not over harsh words. All my Parents and family ever fucking had were harsh words. Harsh words just roll off my back. When I was young and Ma was taking a nap Dad said "she's dead" when I asked where she was. And it goes alot deeper and broader than that. Dad told me "I can buy and sell you".

Now you expect sympathy out of me over snowflakes who got jilted online ? You have no idea what I have been through. Like because of a shrinking penis having the whole fucking gym class laughing at me. And you have the god damn gall to ask for my pity when some little snowflake cannot stand when he gets a little rejection on line ? Gimme a fucking break.

I really am giving up the ghost soon, but it is not because of anyone's opinion of me. I cannot see, and I mean tot he point of not riding a bike. I don't get those big ass hardons anymore. I cannot hear. I sold my fucking stereo because I can't hear. I cannot seem to enjoy anything, even a good steak. So I am leaving the planet and I do not intend to take anyone with me, or cause any big ruckus over it.

But it is not over some cunt not liking me. There are seven billion people on this rock and at least a couple billion of them have a pussy. You, or any of your "sistas" mean fucking nothing to me at all.

These people who off themselves because of some shit said online were never worth the time of day. their self worth exists in text on the screen ? If that is the case just let them kill themselves. We got plenty of people.

God damn fucking idiots if you ask me. You have zero self worth so your whole life depends on someone online to stroke you up or you off yourself ? You are a fucking piece of shit. I got good fucking reason to leave this planet full of assholes, but when you are a teenager and have a whole life ahead of you that is something different. And your Parents failed you and deserve to see you die, which is pretty hard on them actually. The difference is that I have a reason and they do not. they can change, they can still read and drive. they can change their future. I admit it is hard but if they're up to it they can succeed.

In the end, my final judgement is if they are that weak let them die.

T^T




mnottertail -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 5:05:14 AM)

Dont mean to rush you along, but do you got any funeral homes in mind?




subrob1967 -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 6:35:59 AM)

FR Termy, I bet the Pawn Star can get you a casket for cheap... Or not so cheap, he's got to make a profit too yanno.




WickedsDesire -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 6:46:07 AM)

There was a story similar to this last week here but without the death. I think she got 1-2 years but probably for stalking harassment etc




MercTech -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 2:14:53 PM)

Hmmm, given that in many states attempting suicide is a felony; the girl would be guilty of being an accomplice in a felony.




Aylee -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 2:55:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Hmmm, given that in many states attempting suicide is a felony; the girl would be guilty of being an accomplice in a felony.


That is not true anymore. Although there are assisted suicide laws that she may or may not be guilty of, depending on the state.




Termyn8or -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 4:11:26 PM)

FR

For those who would appreciate my demise, you'll just have to wait until I am good and fucking ready.

I have had a whole school laugh at me, I have been beat up just because the assholes didn't like me. Back then, I never even gave suicide a thought. And I got tough. You know why there are not many fagbashers anymore ? The fags got tough and beat the shit out of them. They asserted their right to exist, and so did I. I am not one of them but I understand. When I was younger and working out,, my sparring partner kicked me 20 feet across ythe room and I got up and said "Do it again". Sometimes to show off I layed down on the floor and let someone stand on my chest while I smoked a cigarette. A buddy and I stole a piano. You know how heavy those fuckers are ? One buddy had a car parked too close to his garage and couldn't get his motorcycle out, so we simply lifted the back of it and moved it a few feet and he was happily riding down the street. My crowd and I were not to be fucked with, to say the least.

You are perfectly welcome to kill yourself over what someone says about you. I consider it a sign of weakness and as far as I am concerned good riddance. If you are that weak in the mind you would probably get PTSD from basic training in the army. Hell, air force even, I don't mean Paris Island here. You might get PTSD if the final exam is too hard in school. Soon, if we let the ultrasickening liberals have their way you will be able to sue for that. How dare anyone put difficult questions on a test. Say what you want about Trump, and I agree he is an asshole, but this country is going in a different direction and some of the snowflakes are going to melt. And I don't fucking care.

Bottom line - if you are so weak in the mid that you would off yourself ov er what someone texts you, I don't need you breathing up this perfectly good (enough) air and eating food that could be fed to someone who light actually turn out useful. I know it is unlikely in this country but these weak ass people are certainly not going to make it. If they get a bad performance review at work, what, they gonna sue the company ?

Sorry about the Parents, seeing a kid die is one of the worst things that could ever happen to them, but it is their fault. When you raise kids, there are some harsh words at least there is some unpleasantness here and there. If not you get a fucking marshmallow who can't take any fucking criticism or anything and will kill himself is the object of his desire does not swoon over him. In other words, he got too uch love and not enough of what makes a boy into a Man.

Let me tell you about Men. We dominate, even if we switch we domminate. We make the money, we pay the bills and we make the rules. You want to play, tie me up and whip my ass on Saturday night fine. But Monday morning I go to work and you have some food ready when I get the fuck home. The problem in this world are there are so few Men. There are plenty of boys who have grown bigger, but real Men are in a very bad shortage.

In a way we are like Semites et al. You Women are property,we OWN you. You don't like it go home to Mommy, but some Women, real Women do like it. And real Men treat them very well. Plenty of money, their own car or at least use ours when they drop us off at work, whatever. Much freedom. they like being in our company, and they like us. If you don't, fine. But as much as you might stand for feminist rights and all that, there is that one Man, a real Man, who can sweep you off your feet and you will willingly give yourself to him lock, stock and barrel. And you fucking know it. Such Men are extremely rare. Most are not liberals and don't put up with the stupider of liberal views.

Being property is a real thing, just like when our truck needs an oil change. We need to make sure you have what you need. I think RM has a problem with such relationships and that explains why he is always bitching about feminists. If after meeting me you don't tame down I go "NEXT" and you are kicked to the curb. unsold. Learn how to type. My fifty bucks an hour is not going on your pocket and you ain't driving my cars. When you pay the bills you make the rules.

And I am not abject to that. I no longeer pull in that fifty an hour. A Woman who pays the bills and thus y keep, I will respect just like a woman should respect her Man. I will cook and clean, ad actually such an arrangment has other advantages. For example, ask your Wife to fix the roof, or do some plumbing work. I am well versed in most of that, the only thing is no roofing or cement work. And I am getting out of car work, it is getting too technical, you can't even find the engines in these things. But I will talk to the mechanic for you and see that you do not get ripped off.

But even then, there are harsh words. It fucking happens. It has to happen and you respond. And you don't respond by throwing yourself in front of a speeding bus. What kind of Parent raise a kid who would do that ? I bet if I showed up at their house ad told them the paint was peeling they would cry. And then call the most expensive contractor to paint the place with garbage Glidden or whatever cheap ass paint just to cover it up.

That is the kind of people I could live without. Useless motherfuckers.

T^T




stef -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 5:20:38 PM)

[image]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/068/894/cool-story-bro-house-Cool-Story-Bro.jpg[/image]




Termyn8or -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 8:21:58 PM)

Please do elaborate Mod 11.

T^T




kkaliforniaa -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 9:38:54 PM)

I didn't know bullying only stopped when you reached 18. There have never been co-workers who bullied colleagues? "Men" who have harrassed other people for how they dressed, walked, spoke, etc.

When put in the opposite position, bullies seldomly can take what they dish out. Like the saying goes, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Sure, bullying isn't formally a crime, yet, but the principle is a good one.

Crimes bullies should or could be charged with range from assault [verbal], harrassment, stalking, coercion/duress [Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.) defines duress as "any unlawful threat or coercion used... to induce another to act [or not act] in a manner [they] otherwise would not [or would]".], manslaughter, negligent homicide [a person would have to be an idiot to think stuff like
quote:

“So I guess you aren’t gonna do it then, all that for nothing … I’m just so confused like you were so ready and determined,” she said.

will result in the victim baking you sugar cookies or something, or proxy murder [this is when people hire someone to kill someone else. In other words someone does the crime for you. How would your victim committing this crime be any different than hiring the guy down the street].. In regards to manslaughter and assault, how is it any different if punches are thrown [etc] and one person dies, compared to verbally attacking a vulnerable person.

This of course is a difficult thing to enforce because the evidence can be difficult to obtain. Plus, depending on the method, online versus off, there may be many bullies [mob mentality]. If many people gang up on one person, convincing them to *slash*, would all be guilty of [crime]. Take Julius Caesar. If you get to the nitty gritty only one person was responsible for the fatal wound, but many inflicted wounds that were just as bad.

The following link seems like a good example of why bullies should be punished for the victims suicide, but assault doesn't seem like enough when a person dies, especially if the intent was malicious [although in the case from the article, I don't know if the girl was actually harrassing the guy. If she were someone in a position of power though, since she didn't report that the person was a harm to themself or others ["duty to warn" or "duty to protect"], she could be punished, in theory].
https://answers.uslegal.com/criminal/assault/23815/
quote:

Verbal assault usually involves threatening physical violence on someone, although sometimes yelling or aggressively using words to offend or attack someone can constitute verbal assault. The threats must be something the assailant is capable of carrying out, and which cause fear of imminent danger to the victim.

Please see the following WA statutes:

Sec. 1 RCW 9A.36.080 and 2009 c 180 s 1 are each amended to read as follows:

(1) A person is guilty of malicious harassment if he or she maliciously and intentionally commits one of the following acts because of his or her perception of the victim's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, or sensory handicap:

(a) Causes physical injury to the victim or another person;

(b) Causes physical damage to or destruction of the property of the victim or another person; or

(c) Threatens a specific person or group of persons and places that person, or members of the specific group of persons, in reasonable fear of harm to person or property. The fear must be a fear that a reasonable person would have under all the circumstances. For purposes of this section, a "reasonable person" is a reasonable person who is a member of the victim's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation, or who has the same mental, physical, or sensory handicap as the victim. Words alone do not constitute malicious harassment unless the context or circumstances surrounding the words indicate the words are a threat. Threatening words do not constitute malicious harassment if it is apparent to the victim that the person does not have the ability to carry out the threat.

(2) In any prosecution for malicious harassment, unless evidence exists which explains to the trier of fact's satisfaction that the person did not intend to threaten the victim or victims, the trier of fact may infer that the person intended to threaten a specific victim or group of victims because of the person's perception of the victim's or victims' race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, or sensory handicap if the person commits one of the following acts:

(a) Burns a cross on property of a victim who is or whom the actor perceives to be of African American heritage; or

(b) Defaces property of a victim who is or whom the actor perceives to be of Jewish heritage by defacing the property with a swastika.

This subsection only applies to the creation of a reasonable inference for evidentiary purposes. This subsection does not restrict the state's ability to prosecute a person under subsection (1) of this section when the facts of a particular case do not fall within (a) or (b) of this subsection.

(3) It is not a defense that the accused was mistaken that the victim was a member of a certain race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation, or had a mental, physical, or sensory handicap.

(4) Evidence of expressions or associations of the accused may not be introduced as substantive evidence at trial unless the evidence specifically relates to the crime charged. Nothing in this chapter shall affect the rules of evidence governing impeachment of a witness.

(5) Every person who commits another crime during the commission of a crime under this section may be punished and prosecuted for the other crime separately.

(6) For the purposes of this section:

(a) "Sexual orientation" for the purposes of this section has the same meaning as in RCW 49.60.040.

(b) "Threat" means to communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent to:

(i) Cause bodily injury immediately or in the future to the person threatened or to any other person; or

(ii) Cause physical damage immediately or in the future to the property of a person threatened or that of any other person.

(7) Malicious harassment is a class C felony.

(8) The penalties provided in this section for malicious harassment do not preclude the victims from seeking any other remedies otherwise available under law.

(9) Nothing in this section confers or expands any civil rights or protections to any group or class identified under this section, beyond those rights or protections that exist under the federal or state Constitution or the civil laws of the state of Washington.

RCW 9A.36.070 (1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or....

(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

(b) Threats as defined in (*) RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.





Termyn8or -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/14/2017 10:02:56 PM)

No.

I can understand if the bullying is at school or whatever, in social media it is a different issue. Even whe I had the whole class laughng at me for something I could do nothing about, not one of then was threatenening physically. They just had a good laugh at my expense.

No. I simply do noy buy it. I could see maybe if you were th Mother of my kids or some shit like that but at 17 this has not happened (we hope).

i am overwhelmed with you ad cannot live wituout you, and if youi do not swoon over me I will kill myself. thsat is not a fully develpe human being, ais.hd Parenyt shold b ashamed and could watch his/her death.

I am done with all this. I you can't handle life then die.

T^T




stef -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/15/2017 12:12:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Please do elaborate Mod 11.

T^T

Please take your meds, Nazi nutjob.




Hillwilliam -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/16/2017 10:43:57 AM)

We have a verdict. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/judge-announce-verdict-today-texting-suicide-case-144606716--abc-news-topstories.html




kkaliforniaa -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/16/2017 2:47:43 PM)

I liked the article from the New York Times better.

quote:

Michelle Carter Is Guilty of Manslaughter in Texting Suicide Case

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE and JESS BIDGOODJUNE 16, 2017

TAUNTON, Mass. — A young woman who sent a barrage of text messages to another teenager urging him to kill himself was found guilty Friday of involuntary manslaughter in a case that many legal experts had expected to result in an acquittal.

The verdict, handed down by a judge in a nonjury trial, was a rare legal finding that, essentially, a person’s words alone can directly cause someone else’s suicide.

The judge, Lawrence Moniz, of Bristol County Juvenile Court in southeastern Massachusetts, said the conduct of the woman, Michelle Carter, toward Conrad Roy III was not only immoral but illegal. Ms. Carter, who faces up to 20 years in prison, will be sentenced on Aug. 3.

Ms. Carter was 17 in July 2014 when she encouraged Mr. Roy, 18, whom she called her boyfriend, to kill himself. On July 12, while she was miles away, he drove alone to a Kmart parking lot and hooked up a water pump that emitted carbon monoxide into the cab of his truck. When he became sick from the fumes and stepped out, prosecutors said, Ms. Carter ordered him by phone to “get back in.” He was found dead the next day.

Knowing that Mr. Roy was in his truck and in a toxic environment, the judge said, Ms. Carter took no action.

“She admits in subsequent texts that she did nothing, she did not call the police or Mr. Roy’s family,” Judge Moniz said. “And finally, she did not issue a simple additional instruction: ‘Get out of the truck.’”

The verdict came as a surprise to many legal experts, because suicide is generally considered, legally, to result from a person’s free will.

Judge Moniz acknowledged that Mr. Roy had taken steps to cause his own death, like researching suicide methods, obtaining a generator and then the water pump with which he ultimately poisoned himself. Indeed, Judge Moniz said that Ms. Carter’s text messages pressuring him to kill himself had not, on their own, caused his death.

But then, Judge Moniz homed in on the cellphone calls between Ms. Carter and Mr. Roy while he was poisoning himself in his car. At the time, he said, Mr. Roy had fearfully climbed out of the car.

“He breaks that chain of self-causation by exiting the vehicle,” Judge Moniz said. “He takes himself out of that toxic environment that it has become.”

Judge Moniz pointed out that, during previous suicide attempts in 2012, Mr. Roy had second thoughts and reached out to friends and family for help. But, the judge said, Mr. Roy did not get help when he talked with Ms. Carter.

“She instructed Mr. Roy to get back into the truck, well knowing his ambiguities, his fears, his concerns,” Judge Moniz said. “This court finds that instructing Mr. Roy to get back in the truck constituted wanton and reckless conduct, by Ms. Carter creating a situation where there is a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to Mr. Roy.”

As he finished, Judge Moniz asked Ms. Carter, who was sobbing, to stand. He then concluded: “This court, having reviewed the evidence, finds you guilty on the indictment with involuntary manslaughter.”

A spectator let out an audible “wow” as the judge pronounced her guilty.

In the courtroom’s front benches, the two families on either side of the aisle — Ms. Carter’s and Mr. Roy’s — were also sobbing. Mr. Roy’s mother, Lynn, left the courtroom with a tissue in hand and a tight smile, while Ms. Carter rocked ever so slightly back and forth at the defense table, her chin in her hands.

In a brief statement, Conrad Roy Jr., Mr. Roy’s father, thanked the prosecutors and said: “This has been a very tough time for our family and we’d like to process this verdict, that we’re happy with.”

As he left the courthouse, Ms. Carter’s defense lawyer, Joseph P. Cataldo, said that he was “disappointed” in the verdict and that the case was “pending,” indicating a possible appeal.

Relying heavily on voluminous online correspondence, the trial exposed the interior lives of two troubled teenagers, putting their thoughts, their secrets and their rock-bottom self-images on display. Judge Moniz said both of their families had been “immutably changed” by the case, and as arguments closed on Tuesday, Mr. Roy’s family and Ms. Carter herself were left in tears.

The judge’s decision surprised many legal experts, who had said that, despite the callousness of Ms. Carter’s conduct, the case presented a stiff challenge to prosecutors because Massachusetts, unlike dozens of other states, has no law against encouraging suicide.

Moreover, Ms. Carter was not at the scene. To secure a conviction of involuntary manslaughter, prosecutors needed to show that Ms. Carter’s words alone, typed in thousands of text messages to Mr. Roy, were reckless and essentially killed him.

Legal experts said the judge might have wanted to convey to Massachusetts lawmakers that they needed to pass laws to hold people accountable for their online conduct.

“This sends a strong message to people that using technology to bully people into committing suicide will not be tolerated,” said Daniel S. Medwed, a law professor at Northeastern University.

But Mr. Medwed said he was surprised at the guilty verdict, because the manslaughter charge seemed “a stretch” to begin with. Because Ms. Carter was not at the scene, and Mr. Roy ultimately acted alone, he said, it was difficult to prove she “caused” the death.

“We don’t see this every day,” said Laurie Levenson, a law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. She said that the decision by a single court in Massachusetts was unlikely to set a legal precedent, but that it could have a social effect.

“On the broader societal spectrum, I think it sends a message that behavior that we sometimes attribute to odd teenage behavior can actually be so extreme that it’s homicide,” she said.

“What used to be seen as just a tragedy,” she added, “is now going to be classified, perhaps, as a crime.”

The virtual nature of Ms. Carter’s role was not a barrier for the judge. And his verdict signaled that the law might need to catch up with cultural and behavioral changes wrought by technology.

A prosecutor made that very point in arguing that Ms. Carter’s physical absence from the suicide scene was immaterial.

In a trial that lasted a week, prosecutors used Ms. Carter’s text messages to paint a portrait of a needy, insecure teenager who pushed Mr. Roy to kill himself in an effort to gain attention. Defense lawyers used the same messages to depict Ms. Carter as a misguided teenager, addled by medication, who thought she was helping a deeply troubled friend.

Ms. Carter and Mr. Roy texted incessantly about their troubles: depression for him, an eating disorder for her, and profound social anxiety for both. When Mr. Roy told Ms. Carter in June 2014 that he was seriously considering suicide, she told him he had a lot to live for and urged him to seek help.

“I’m trying my best to dig you out,” Ms. Carter wrote.

“I don’t wanna be dug out,” Mr. Roy answered, adding later, “I WANT TO DIE.”

By early July, she began to embrace the idea. “If this is the only way you think you’re gonna be happy, heaven will welcome you with open arms,” she wrote.

Ms. Carter said she would look like a “fool” if Mr. Roy did not kill himself. They talked at length about how he could kill himself with carbon monoxide. “If you emit 3200 ppm of it for five to ten mins you will die within a half hour,” she wrote. In the last days of his life, she told him repeatedly, “You just need to do it.”

With such texts projected onto large screens in the courtroom, there was no question that Ms. Carter had encouraged Mr. Roy to kill himself. The lawyers argued instead about motive.

Prosecutors said Ms. Carter had caused Mr. Roy’s death because she wanted the sympathy that would come to her as the “grieving girlfriend.” In a ploy to get attention from girls she admired, the prosecutors said, Ms. Carter erroneously told them that Mr. Roy was missing two days before he actually was. That Mr. Roy was still alive, they said, increased the pressure on Ms. Carter to make sure he would soon be dead.

“Every time he came up with an excuse not to do it, she kicked his feet out right from under him and told him why it didn’t matter, why he still needed to die,” an assistant district attorney, Katie Rayburn, said during Tuesday’s closing statements.

Ms. Carter’s lawyers cast her as a naïve teenager who wanted to help people. She began encouraging Mr. Roy to kill himself, they said, only after she became “involuntarily intoxicated” with antidepressants and was convinced he was determined to end his life.

Mr. Cataldo argued that Mr. Roy had a history of depression, had tried to kill himself before and had conducted hundreds of online searches for ways to die.

“She takes no physical steps. She doesn’t threaten him with serious bodily harm,” Mr. Cataldo told the judge in his closing argument. “Conrad Roy knows what he is doing, your honor. He made a choice to commit suicide.”

“Michelle Carter,” Mr. Cataldo added, “did not kill Conrad Roy.”

And yet, in the weeks after Mr. Roy’s death, Ms. Carter texted friends that she felt responsible: that she could have stopped him but did not. And she feared her texts would implicate her.

“Sam they read my messages with him I’m done,” she wrote to one friend. “His family will hate me and I can go to jail.”


The following link talk about Michelle Carter and a similar case in Minnesota.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-it-a-crime-to-encourage-suicide-unusual-massachusetts-case-of-conrad-roy-and-michelle-carter/

quote:

By Stephanie Slifer CBS/AP March 3, 2015, 6:00 AM
Is it a crime to "encourage suicide"? Teens' texts under scrutiny

BOSTON - Prosecutors likely face an arduous task in proving that an 18-year-old Massachusetts girl committed involuntary manslaughter by encouraging a male friend to commit suicide, experts say.

Michelle Carter, of Plainville, was 17 when police say she encouraged her friend, 18-year-old Conrad Roy, of Mattapoisett, to commit suicide. Roy, who had a history of mental illness, was found dead in his car behind a K-Mart in Fairhaven, about 60 miles south of Boston, on July 13, 2014. He had used a generator to commit suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning.

It wasn't until February 5, 2015 -- more than six months later -- that Carter was indicted by a grand jury on a charge of involuntary manslaughter after the Bristol County District Attorney's Office says a lengthy investigation found she "strongly influenced" Roy's decision to kill himself.

In a police report, Fairhaven police Det. Scott Gordon wrote, "Carter not only encouraged Conrad [Roy] to take his own life, she questioned him repeatedly as to when and why he hadn't done it yet, right up to the point of when his final text was sent to her."

The report further alleges that, prior to his death, Roy texted Carter that he was scared and didn't want to leave his family, but despite that, Carter continued to encourage him to take his own life, "and when he actually started to carry out the act, he got scared again and exited his truck but instead of telling him to stay out of the truck and turn off the generator, Carter told him to 'get back in.'"

However, Joseph Cataldo, Carter's attorney, says his client didn't commit a crime and he believes a judge will dismiss the charge prior to trial. He tells 48 Hours' Crimesider that once all the evidence is made public it will be clear that Carter "counseled" Roy not to take his own life.

"I think it's rather suspect they didn't release all the other text messages they claim the two of them had... It's a sad story, a tragedy, but it's not manslaughter," Cataldo says. "What we have here is a young man who made a voluntary decision to end his own life. It was his voluntary decision. His death was not caused by Michelle Carter."

According to Cataldo, the case is unprecedented in the state of Massachusetts. He says he's not aware of any cases in the state "where a person who is 30 miles away is charged with committing manslaughter by text."

Massachusetts has no statute criminalizing assisted suicide, although 40 other states do. It can, however, prohibit it under common law.

Barbara Coombs Lee, an attorney and president of Compassion & Choices, a non-profit organization that provides guidance and resources about aid in dying, says Massachusetts' lack of a criminal prohibition against assisted suicide will make the case against Carter an uphill battle for the prosecution.

She says what went on between Michelle Carter and Conrad Roy is precisely what such laws are designed to prohibit.

"People shouldn't manipulate and coerce mentally vulnerable victims. There should be some way that society punishes this behavior," Lee says.

CBS News' legal analyst and former Massachusetts prosecutor Rikki Klieman acknowledges that while the accusations against Carter are "horrendous," the case doesn't neatly fit into any statute in Massachusetts.

"It's not cyberbullying, it's not harassment, it's not stalking. So the prosecutor says, 'This is reprehensible conduct, disgusting conduct, must-be-punished conduct,' so he goes forward and says, 'Let's call this involuntary manslaughter.' Does it neatly fit in that definition? Not so much. We really are going to have a test case here," Klieman told CBS This Morning.

Minnesota prosecutor Paul Beaumaster knows firsthand the challenges that come with prosecuting a case that involves allegations of encouraging suicide.

Beaumaster was the prosecutor in the case against William Melchert-Dinkel, a Minnesota man who was charged in the deaths of an Englishman and a Canadian woman after authorities say he used the Internet to manipulate them into killing themselves.

Authorities said Melchert-Dinkel was obsessed with suicide and hanging and sought out potential victims online. When he found them, prosecutors said, he posed as a female nurse, feigned compassion and offered step-by-step instructions on how they could kill themselves.

He was charged and ultimately convicted of aiding in the suicides of Nadia Kajouji, 18, of Brampton, Ontario, and Mark Drybrough, 32, of Coventry, England. Drybrough hanged himself in 2005, and Kajouji jumped into a frozen river in 2008.

A Rice County, Minn. judge found that he "intentionally advised and encouraged" the victims to take their lives, but the defense appealed, saying Melchert-Dinkel's actions might have been immoral, but they were not illegal.

The Minnesota Supreme Court reversed Melchert-Dinkel's convictions last year. The justices found that the part of Minnesota's law that simply bans someone from "encouraging" or "advising" suicide is unconstitutional because it encompasses speech protected under the First Amendment.

But the justices upheld the part of the law that makes it a crime to "assist" in someone's suicide -- and said speech could still be considered a factor. The case went back to the initial judge, who ruled last year that Melchert-Dinkel did assist in Drybrough's suicide, by providing detailed instructions on hanging, on which Drybrough followed through. The judge found Melchert-Dinkel guilty of attempting to assist Kajouji's suicide, because she ultimately rejected his advice to hang herself and jumped into the river instead.

He was ultimately sentenced to 178 days in jail and will avoid prison if he abides by probation terms for the next 10 years.

Beaumaster, the prosecutor in the Melchert-Dinkel case, told Crimesider he believes the case against 18-year-old Michelle Carter in Massachusetts will center around similar issues, such as whether or not words in and of themselves constitute assisted suicide and whether certain statements made via text or on the Internet are protected under the First Amendment.

The Melchert-Dinkel case resulted in a very narrow statute in Minnesota which clearly defines when it is still a crime to assist in suicide, and Beaumaster said similar statutes are needed throughout the country.

In the Michelle Carter case, "I do think there is culpabilty," he said. "Society needs to have outliers be held accountable for statements that result in death or injury to another person."

Michelle Carter, now 18, is charged as a youthful offender since she was 17 at the time of Roy's death, but she could still face punishment as an adult - up to 20 years - if convicted. She is currently free on $2,500 bond.

Authorities have not commented on a motive in the case, but according to police documents, Conrad allegedly sent text messages to her friends and to Roy's mother expressing concern about Roy's whereabouts on the day he committed suicide, despite having been in constant contact with him and encouraging him to take his own life.

The police documents indicate authorities believe she was putting together "a plan to get sympathy." They also allege that after Roy's death, Carter organized a softball tournament to raise money for mental health awareness in honor of Roy and posted several messages on social media about suicide prevention and how much she missed Roy.

In a message to Roy's mother dated July 25, 2014 -- twelve days after his death -- Carter wrote, "...There was nothing anyone could do to save him no matter how hard they tried. I never tried harder at something in my life."


A bit disappointing with the Minnesota case, less than 200 days in jail [less for good behavior I'm guessing] for coercing two people into killing themselves. It doesn't make sense why assisted suicide isn't stricter. If you're not a spouse or the victim's doctor [for more than 6 months].. .. Kevorkian served 8 years [of a 10-25 year sentence], and his patients were rational.




WickedsDesire -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/16/2017 2:55:14 PM)

Michelle Carter guilty of texts urging boyfriend's suicide

The case drew national attention after the texts sent between the two teenagers were revealed by investigators.
"Hang yourself, jump off a building, stab yourself I don't know there's a lot of ways," she said in several messages sent in the two weeks before his death, as he was on holiday with his family.
In the moments before his suicide, she wrote: "You need to do it, Conrad" and "All you have to do is turn the generator on and you will be free and happy."

In another message, she wrote: "You're finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain. It's okay to be scared and it's normal. I mean, you're about to die."

Prosecutors argued that Carter had manipulated Mr Roy, who had a history of depression and suicide attempts, into taking his own life, advising him that it would be "painless".
But Carter's defence team argued that Mr Roy had planned his own suicide, and had gone so far as to secure the equipment that he used to take his own life.

They also said anti-depression medication that Carter was taking had affected her judgment.
As Mr Conrad's truck filled with poisonous carbon monoxide, he left his vehicle to speak on the phone, with Carter, who was nearly 30 miles (48km) away at the time.

Investigators did not have a recording of that call, but in a text to a friend, Carter described what was said.
"Sam, [the victim's] death is my fault like honestly I could have stopped him I was on the phone with him and he got out of the [truck] because it was working and he got scared and I f****** told him to get back in Sam because I knew he would do it all over again the next day and I couldnt have him live the way he was living anymore I couldnt do it I wouldnt let him," she wrote after his death.

Another message to her friend stated: "I was on the phone talking to him when he killed himself. I heard him dying."

She also contacted a friend when she learned that investigators were looking through Mr Roy's phone.
"They read my text messages to him I'm done", the accused wrote, adding, "his family will hate me and I could go to jail".




WinsomeDefiance -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/16/2017 3:18:51 PM)

Damn T^T, that was a lot of worrisome in one post.

Have you seen eye specialists? Are hearing aids an option?
Need someone to talk to?

I for one hope you take your sweet time and make any MF's eager to see you go wait a long, very long time.





Aylee -> RE: 17yo girl charged with murder by texting (6/16/2017 7:47:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

We have a verdict. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/judge-announce-verdict-today-texting-suicide-case-144606716--abc-news-topstories.html



If all she was to him was a friend, even a girlfriend or a fiancée -- if she wasn't his parent or legal guardian, his registered nurse, his psychiatrist, his counselor, or someone else who had some other legal duty to use better-than-average judgment, better-than-average prudence, better-than-average concern for his health and welfare, then I don't believe she ought properly have been convicted of any crime.

There is a whole ton of conduct that may be shocking, immoral, reprehensible, and a reason to condemn and shun. As reported, this defendant's conduct was all that and more.

But if he's an adult who's not under any sort of conservatorship, and she's not assumed some special responsibility for him, his own decision must be considered a "superseding cause," something that the civil law would describe as the "sole proximate cause," and I think the criminal law ought to as well. If Massachusetts law indeed permits that, I hope the defendant's lawyer has properly made and preserved appropriate objections under federal law, but that would be a very long longshot. Normally state courts have to decide these issues and their decisions aren't subject to interference from the federal courts.

And yes, this looks like one of those classic cases where hard facts make bad law, the ruling a proverbial slippery slope that threatens everyone's individual civil rights and freedoms.




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