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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 11:38:26 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Big oil does not need subsidies. Pick whatever numbers you like.

It might not need them, but it still insists on receiving a few.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 11:41:02 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 11:55:35 AM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

I think the whining about solar comes from a different source. The petro industry is up and running and is/could be entirely self sufficient. Renewables will never be up and running until there are efficient storage systems available. If you add the cost of...say...pumping water up hill during the day and then using its down hill flow at night to generate energy, solar is way more than three times more expensive than natural gas. So any subsidies now to make solar panel cheaper is pretty much just silly and political.

I will admit that getting the petro industry up and running in the early days was heavily subsidized by government and a change over to renewables would be a boon to all and well worth subsidizing when the technology is available. But at this time efficient energy storage is not available and so all the subsidies do is make cheaper solar panels which the Chinese already do.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 11:56:27 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

Very true.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 11:58:57 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Couldn't you find a more biased source for your propaganda spew?

Even if it were true, it's not happening because government makes it happen, it's all up to the private sector.

Why do you hate Capitalism?


Huh? what makes you think its capitalism?

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 12:12:59 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		No-one wants coal. I have said it before, some of you have said it before.

I also said the last coal fired power station in Scotland shut a few years ago. Englanders do you have any left?

The chances of America switching to coal fired plants = zero

China is moving away they have no other option due to pollution, India likewise - three parts: pollution, weather patterns, population density in benign zones.

Trumps motives - just lies and fake news (lies)

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 12:22:29 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

I think the whining about solar comes from a different source. The petro industry is up and running and is/could be entirely self sufficient. Renewables will never be up and running until there are efficient storage systems available. If you add the cost of...say...pumping water up hill during the day and then using its down hill flow at night to generate energy, solar is way more than three times more expensive than natural gas. So any subsidies now to make solar panel cheaper is pretty much just silly and political.

I will admit that getting the petro industry up and running in the early days was heavily subsidized by government and a change over to renewables would be a boon to all and well worth subsidizing when the technology is available. But at this time efficient energy storage is not available and so all the subsidies do is make cheaper solar panels which the Chinese already do.


Think about how leftists react to the mining industry developing the various heavy metal mines that are needed just for the batteries for renewables...

China can do it with zero ecological safeguards, and the left is happy with that. But try doing it here, with every modern safeguard imaginable...

Well, maybe with a Republican president it can be done

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 12:27:17 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

I think the whining about solar comes from a different source. The petro industry is up and running and is/could be entirely self sufficient. Renewables will never be up and running until there are efficient storage systems available. If you add the cost of...say...pumping water up hill during the day and then using its down hill flow at night to generate energy, solar is way more than three times more expensive than natural gas. So any subsidies now to make solar panel cheaper is pretty much just silly and political.

I will admit that getting the petro industry up and running in the early days was heavily subsidized by government and a change over to renewables would be a boon to all and well worth subsidizing when the technology is available. But at this time efficient energy storage is not available and so all the subsidies do is make cheaper solar panels which the Chinese already do.

Yes and no.

While storage (and better batteries) is being pursued, two other approaches (that I'm aware of -- may be others) circumvent the storage issue.

- home owner banking: the home owner doesn't "sell" solar, but rather "banks" the credit, drawing from the grid when necessary, getting credited for any energy "banked."
- site specific solar (for larger uses): some places are sun drenched, and can focus strictly on production and transmission.

Yes, there are still power grid issues, but that's true of any energy production.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 12:48:56 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		Do you mean South America? Chile - apparently thats number 2 bested by Australia

Now, is it Indonesia that has the "sulphur mines"...which means a bucket and volcano basically..

And yes China does have an Environmental problem - so you were correct with that boscox _ and you Americans are just about to have similar - if we over look oh 3 mile island, flint etc.

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 6/30/2017 12:59:16 PM >

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 1:07:11 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		UK achieves solar power record as temperatures solar

Wind we have a lot of that here :)

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 1:18:58 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		"Unfeasible" solar at work (and via private investment):


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet

The rapid growth in renewable energy continues to put a dent in the demand for coal.

Coal India, the world's biggest coal mining company and producer of 82 percent of the country's coal, announced the closure of 37 mines that are financially "unviable."

The sites make up roughly nine percent of the total mines operated by Coal India. The company is expected save Rs 800 crore ($124 million) from the closures.

India's energy market is undergoing a rapid transformation as it moves away from fossil fuels. Last month, the country cancelled plans to build nearly 14 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations.

Notably, solar has been cheaper than coal-based electricity in India for the past several months. According to Quartz:

"At an auction for 500 megawatt (MW) of capacity at the park on May 12, the state-run Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) managed to discover a record-low tariff of Rs 2.44 per kilowatt-hour (kWh). The previous low was two days before that when tariffs hit Rs 2.62 per kWh during auctions for another phase of Bhadla solar park.

"The country's largest power company, NTPC, sells electricity from its coal-based generation units at a princely Rs 3.20 per kWh."

The National Thermal Power Corporation of India said that the country currently hosts a solar power capacity of 845 megawatts, after the recent addition of a 225 megawatt solar farm, the Mandsaur Solar Power Project.

"India's solar sector has received heavy international investment, and the plummeting price of solar electricity has increased pressure on fossil fuel companies in the country," as The Independent reported. "The government has announced it will not build any more coal plants after 2022 and predicts renewables will generate 57 percent of its power by 2027—a pledge far outstripping its commitment in the Paris climate change agreement."

https://www.ecowatch.com/india-coal-mines-close-2446931737.html?xrs=RebelMouse_fb&ts=1498251928


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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 1:48:00 PM   
Nnanji


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Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As long as it gets them, the whining about solar getting them is just bullshit.

I think the whining about solar comes from a different source. The petro industry is up and running and is/could be entirely self sufficient. Renewables will never be up and running until there are efficient storage systems available. If you add the cost of...say...pumping water up hill during the day and then using its down hill flow at night to generate energy, solar is way more than three times more expensive than natural gas. So any subsidies now to make solar panel cheaper is pretty much just silly and political.

I will admit that getting the petro industry up and running in the early days was heavily subsidized by government and a change over to renewables would be a boon to all and well worth subsidizing when the technology is available. But at this time efficient energy storage is not available and so all the subsidies do is make cheaper solar panels which the Chinese already do.

Yes and no.

While storage (and better batteries) is being pursued, two other approaches (that I'm aware of -- may be others) circumvent the storage issue.

- home owner banking: the home owner doesn't "sell" solar, but rather "banks" the credit, drawing from the grid when necessary, getting credited for any energy "banked."
- site specific solar (for larger uses): some places are sun drenched, and can focus strictly on production and transmission.

Yes, there are still power grid issues, but that's true of any energy production.

Home owner banking? How does that store energy for night or a cloudy day? Or does it just assume a natural gas plant will pick up non-sun hours. If that's the case we're back to storage issues or petro issues.

Site specific solar still has night time and requires storage unless you set it up so that India or Africa produces our night time loads and we theirs. Back to the same issues. Of course being dependent on foreign electricity wouldn't be like being dependent on foreign oil at all.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 1:52:26 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		It doesn't. All the energy goes to the grid, and the homeowner is given credit for that energy, and can draw up to it for free.

And if non-solar energy picks up some slack, it's still cleaner energy (less non-clean energy produced).

I mean, obviously. But by all means, nit-pick away. Meanwhile, we'll enjoy our missing electric bill.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 2:06:21 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It doesn't. All the energy goes to the grid, and the homeowner is given credit for that energy, and can draw up to it for free.

And if non-solar energy picks up some slack, it's still cleaner energy (less non-clean energy produced).

I mean, obviously. But by all means, nit-pick away. Meanwhile, we'll enjoy our missing electric bill.

Yep, pointing out the grand plan is technically impossible is nit picking because



And in the mean time I have to listen to all of the loonies on the left whine "why don't we just get rid of oil and go to solar". Of course they'll whine, as Bosco said, when they begin to understand what is involved with building batteries. And if not that, they'll whine about something else.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 2:14:04 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		I suppose pointing out again that the "technically impossible " already exists on a large scale in multiple countries is probably pointless.

So lick the wax from your fingers and rant away.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 2:43:57 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

Renewables will never be up and running until there are efficient storage systems available.

There are currently efficient and effective storage systems available and I have linked you to them in the past.

If you add the cost of...say...
pumping water up hill during the day and then using its down hill flow at night to generate energy, solar is way more than
three times more expensive than natural gas.


Perhaps you could show us your math on this. You see the electricity used to do the pumping is free so how can it
cost more than something that is not free?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid,

So any subsidies now to make solar panel cheaper is pretty much just silly
and political.

Yet the subsidies for fossil fuel were not silly?????how is that possible except in the mind of a moron?

I will admit that getting the petro industry up and running in the early days was heavily subsidized by government and a
change over to renewables would be a boon to all and well worth subsidizing when the technology is available


As has been amply demonstrated the technology is currently available.


. But at this
time efficient energy storage is not available and so all the subsidies do is make cheaper solar panels which the Chinese
already do.


That is not true. But if it were true consider no storage at all and solar panels at .50 cents a watt. That is free
electricity during the day. That means all the fuel used to generate power during the day would be saved.

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 5:38:18 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
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Status: offline 		The only person on here with a qualification in mining is me 8 -12 letters worth
Mad cat loon - close enough i suppose

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 6:15:51 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I suppose pointing out again that the "technically impossible " already exists on a large scale in multiple countries is probably pointless.

So lick the wax from your fingers and rant away.

If that's true I'm going to have to write a nasty letter to the CIA.

So you're saying, on large scale, like cities in size, people generate electricity, all they need and then some, by solar and then store that electricity in batteries on the grid and the batteries provide all the electricity they need at night or during storms? And the CIA hasn't stolen this holy grail battery design and brought it here?

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 6/30/2017 6:18:40 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		are you thick.
Fall to your knees know and declare me god

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RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Sol... - 7/1/2017 5:04:18 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		The market-driven switch to renewables is happening here in Australia too. This is especially significant as Australa's export economy is heavily reliant on mining. Now major banks are refusing to finance new coal projects unless they meet stringent, often impossibly tight requirements.

The Indian conglomerate Adani is seeking to develop a huge new coal mine at the Galilee Basin in Northern Queensland. Despite support from both the Federal and State Govts, and Queensland's long history of being a Big Mining friendly State, all of Australians 'Big 4" banks have declined to advance finance for the project, citing economic and environmental reservations. The project has met fierce opposition from the environmental lobbies - with some groups opposing any new coal mines and others concerned about possible damage to the world famous Great Barrier Reef, through which any exports from the Adani project must travel.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/28/political-fury-as-australias-second-largest-bank-refuses-to-fun_a_22059145/

These developments suggest that any future financing of new coal mining projects in Australia will be difficult to secure, and of course without finance the projects cannot go ahead. The reluctance of financial institutions to finance energy projects doesn't extend to renewable projects, which are enjoying the kind of financial support coal miners can now only dream of after enjoying it for decades.

It seems that even in Australia's resource dependent economy, the market has decided that coal is finished and renewables are the way forward ... much to chagrin of our right- and looney-right wingers who are still insisting that coal is the future, further consolidating their reputation as political Neanderthals

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