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Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 2:15:15 AM   
tweakabelle


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Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues. People often report feeling powerless to control the level of intrusion by Web giants such as Google and Facebook. Once we click on a link, it seems we lose all control over who gets to see that data, how it is traded, how it is used to fashion advertising directed at us personally and how aggregating this data enables the internet behemoths to create alarmingly accurate pictures of us, our tastes, interests, likes and dislikes, political views etc.

One way of sabotaging Google’s attempts to build comprehensive data pictures of us and our lives is emerging with ‘obfuscation’ programs, designed to fool Google’s data collecting programs and greatly reduce their ability to develop accurate personal histories online.

“In reality, most of us don’t push back against online tracking because we don’t feel we can – the inner workings of the internet appear overwhelming. Such people may be encouraged to hear the leader of a small but significant movement against Google’s tracking techniques is not a software engineer but a philosopher and academic.”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2017/07/01/fighting-online-tracking-with-obfuscation/14988312004843
The entire article is well worth reading to get an overview of the situation and the way 'obfuscation' strategies work.

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 6:00:16 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues. People often report feeling powerless to control the level of intrusion by Web giants such as Google and Facebook. Once we click on a link, it seems we lose all control over who gets to see that data, how it is traded, how it is used to fashion advertising directed at us personally and how aggregating this data enables the internet behemoths to create alarmingly accurate pictures of us, our tastes, interests, likes and dislikes, political views etc.

One way of sabotaging Google’s attempts to build comprehensive data pictures of us and our lives is emerging with ‘obfuscation’ programs, designed to fool Google’s data collecting programs and greatly reduce their ability to develop accurate personal histories online.

“In reality, most of us don’t push back against online tracking because we don’t feel we can – the inner workings of the internet appear overwhelming. Such people may be encouraged to hear the leader of a small but significant movement against Google’s tracking techniques is not a software engineer but a philosopher and academic.”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2017/07/01/fighting-online-tracking-with-obfuscation/14988312004843
The entire article is well worth reading to get an overview of the situation and the way 'obfuscation' strategies work.

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?


No, they're run by ultra-wealthy "liberal" globalist elities so... Just like with Jeff Bezos and his Amazon.com / Washington Post empire, anything goes. Any monopolizing, any manipulating of public opinion, any price fixing or even political fixing, anything at all, is fine.

Didn't you get the memo







< Message edited by BoscoX -- 7/3/2017 6:06:37 AM >


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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 6:13:55 AM   
Musicmystery


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When did the alt-right bozos become anti-capitalist?

Or is this a one-party rule thing, where only members of the Party can acquire wealth?

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 6:23:14 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When did the alt-right bozos become anti-capitalist?

Or is this a one-party rule thing, where only members of the Party can acquire wealth?

I'd be very interested to see how he's worked out that ubercapitalist libertarians are liberals myself. I keep asking that whenever he starts whining about Jeff Bezos' leftist media conspiracy, and he keeps refusing to answer.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 6:34:54 AM   
tweakabelle


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I had hoped that this might be a topic that would transcend the usual political differences. Whether one is of the Right Left or Centre doesn't seem to me to be important - we are all equally exposed to privacy intrusions.

It does strike me that the Internet giants such as Google and Facebook wield greater power than possibly any corporations ever have. They enjoy virtual monopolies, their activities are multinational and their profits seem to escape taxation everywhere except the world's tax havens. They have huge power and influence yet seem answerable to no one. Google was just fined (IIRC) $4.7 billion by the EU but that's just a drop in the ocean of their profits. Microsoft had a long running battle with the EU too, incurring fines of over a $1million per day for one extended period of the dispute yet this failed to dissuade Microsoft to change its ways.

Legislation to control their activities in one jurisdiction is unlikely to have the desired effect - these companies simply move their operations offshore. So if they are to be regulated to protect all our privacies, there would seem to be a need for concerted international action. Sadly there doesn't appear to be much hope of this happening at the moment. Where does that leave us all?

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 7:12:25 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Your USA auctioned the last of that off a couple of months ago - there a couple threads about it somewhere.

Your government my government welcome these media platforms and (both gov and busin)their ability to harvest information from it for their own ends. Does the ends justify the means?

Why I am not on eg facebook ;) to me it is one big virus

This is about privacy and it transcends eg fb google etc, big corp.

I answer to my conscience and I have been pillared by more than a few for that

Straight yes or no answer to you initial conundrum - of course they do

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 8:38:05 AM   
tweakabelle


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WD, sweetie, I am not an American. Please direct any comments you may have about the USA to an American thanks.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 9:09:18 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

WD, sweetie, I am not an American. Please direct any comments you may have about the USA to an American thanks.

That's particularly funny coming from somebody who'd literally shit blood if you called him an Englishman, isn't it?

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 9:41:52 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?



It does transcend all party lines, this is an excellent post and right on target. This is precisely among other reasons I affectionately call the gubmint da' mobocracy, has a more american style ring to it than MM's kleptocracy label.

What I cant believe is how many asshelmets condemned snowden for droping the hammer by calling him a traitor, the question is to whom is he a traitor? Certainly not the people since what he did exposes how the mob has dound ways to completely annihilate the constitution, by doing it outside of gubmint and regulating the agencies.

Its the same way taxes are collected here, your employer does it. Private companies or quasi private companies collect this volumes of information, then they put up a big fight to show everyone how safe their data is on the one hand while sticking to you on the other.

Hell if you leave wifi on, on your droid, it will tickle every damn wifi you drive past, leaving a precise digital trail of everywhere you go.

Anyway case in point:


NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others


This article is 4 years old

Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill

Friday 7 June 2013 15.23 EDT First published on Friday 7 June 2013 15.23 EDT

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called Prism, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.

Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

In a statement, Google said: "Google cares deeply about the security of our users' data. We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law, and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege that we have created a government 'back door' into our systems, but Google does not have a back door for the government to access private user data."

Several senior tech executives insisted that they had no knowledge of Prism or of any similar scheme. They said they would never have been involved in such a program. "If they are doing this, they are doing it without our knowledge," one said.

An Apple spokesman said it had "never heard" of Prism.

The NSA access was enabled by changes to US surveillance law introduced under President Bush and renewed under Obama in December 2012.


The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US.

It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US being collected without warrants.

Disclosure of the Prism program follows a leak to the Guardian on Wednesday of a top-secret court order compelling telecoms provider Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of US customers.

The participation of the internet companies in Prism will add to the debate, ignited by the Verizon revelation, about the scale of surveillance by the intelligence services. Unlike the collection of those call records, this surveillance can include the content of communications and not just the metadata.

Some of the world's largest internet brands are claimed to be part of the information-sharing program since its introduction in 2007. Microsoft – which is currently running an advertising campaign with the slogan "Your privacy is our priority" – was the first, with collection beginning in December 2007.

It was followed by Yahoo in 2008; Google, Facebook and PalTalk in 2009; YouTube in 2010; Skype and AOL in 2011; and finally Apple, which joined the program in 2012. The program is continuing to expand, with other providers due to come online.

Collectively, the companies cover the vast majority of online email, search, video and communications networks.


The moral of the story is if they have the technology they will and do use it, all else is cover and lies.












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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 12:44:36 PM   
tj444


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I disagree with you that "Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues"... I dont think they actually do cuz they dont see any clear ramifications (unless they find out their ID has been stolen).. and they care considerably less about google, fb etc having tons of stats/info on them.. If they really were concerned they wouldnt even be on fb or use any google product etc.. I use certain things to hide what I do or a good part of what I do that I definitely want to be private but I think I am in a minority and even I (who is an admitted "privacy nut") havent investigated all the tools & ways I could hide everything.. But is google too big, powerful & intrusive.. YES! If it wasnt I wouldnt have to do anything to "hide" anything I do..

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 1:53:09 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I disagree with you that "Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues"... I dont think they actually do cuz they dont see any clear ramifications (unless they find out their ID has been stolen).. and they care considerably less about google, fb etc having tons of stats/info on them.. If they really were concerned they wouldnt even be on fb or use any google product etc..


I agree with your disagreement.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Google or Facebook collecting stats on my internet use, as long as it's aggregate data. Maybe if I thought more about it, but...meh. It's not high on my list of things to think about.

Sometimes people say "Well, you don't have to use Facebook if you don't like it." And that's true, I think. But I wonder - is that also true of Google? I honestly don't know. If I use Firefox, not Chrome, and if I never use Google search engines, does Google still have my data simply because I've clicked certain links or visited certain webpages? Or, is there an option to say "Well, you don't have to use Google if you don't like it?"

ETA: And honestly, I'd still be driving around in circles if not for Google Maps, so really, I happily offered up my data to the Google gods long ago in exchange for finding my way home again. I used to get lost all the time.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 2:45:39 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

ETA: And honestly, I'd still be driving around in circles if not for Google Maps, so really, I happily offered up my data to the Google gods long ago in exchange for finding my way home again. I used to get lost all the time.


Yeah, its really hard not to use any google product.. if you want to watch a Youtube vid, well, thats google now too, etc etc And while I do limit my google product use & find ways to shield my data/info, there are certain ones that I use cuz they are better than alternatives, assuming there even are alternatives (& assuming those arent collecting the same or more data on you than google does)... But that is why Google, FB etc now are too big, powerful etc.. cuz they buy other companies and then aggregate data from ever increasing streams/sources... that creates more income which allows them to buy more companies..

The other side is that you dont need to buy what targeted ads are selling.. and if you do buy a type of product then there are ways/tools so that you can get a clean google search & buy based on the best product, not buy based on an ad.. I also am turned off by products that do that and go out of my way to compare products in-depth.. But lately, I have pretty much stopped consumer spending cuz really, how much stuff do ya really need?

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 2:53:09 PM   
AtUrCervix


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Google is....Google.

You think it's too powerful?

Don't use it.

Jeeeezus Franklin....you think the oil companies are too powerful?

Don't buy gas.

(Am I missing sumpin?).

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 5:08:26 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues. People often report feeling powerless to control the level of intrusion by Web giants such as Google and Facebook. Once we click on a link, it seems we lose all control over who gets to see that data, how it is traded, how it is used to fashion advertising directed at us personally and how aggregating this data enables the internet behemoths to create alarmingly accurate pictures of us, our tastes, interests, likes and dislikes, political views etc.

One way of sabotaging Google’s attempts to build comprehensive data pictures of us and our lives is emerging with ‘obfuscation’ programs, designed to fool Google’s data collecting programs and greatly reduce their ability to develop accurate personal histories online.

“In reality, most of us don’t push back against online tracking because we don’t feel we can – the inner workings of the internet appear overwhelming. Such people may be encouraged to hear the leader of a small but significant movement against Google’s tracking techniques is not a software engineer but a philosopher and academic.”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2017/07/01/fighting-online-tracking-with-obfuscation/14988312004843
The entire article is well worth reading to get an overview of the situation and the way 'obfuscation' strategies work.

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?


No, they're run by ultra-wealthy "liberal" globalist elities so... Just like with Jeff Bezos and his Amazon.com / Washington Post empire, anything goes. Any monopolizing, any manipulating of public opinion, any price fixing or even political fixing, anything at all, is fine.

Didn't you get the memo


Bullshit, the real memos read, "How can we use the web tracking to make more money. ?" These algorithms are devised by the profiteer, the corporation and right wing constituency of the investor class.

This is all purely profit driven and is all right up there in capitalist, rent-seeking, right wing Valhalla.

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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 5:09:28 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues. People often report feeling powerless to control the level of intrusion by Web giants such as Google and Facebook. Once we click on a link, it seems we lose all control over who gets to see that data, how it is traded, how it is used to fashion advertising directed at us personally and how aggregating this data enables the internet behemoths to create alarmingly accurate pictures of us, our tastes, interests, likes and dislikes, political views etc.

One way of sabotaging Google’s attempts to build comprehensive data pictures of us and our lives is emerging with ‘obfuscation’ programs, designed to fool Google’s data collecting programs and greatly reduce their ability to develop accurate personal histories online.

“In reality, most of us don’t push back against online tracking because we don’t feel we can – the inner workings of the internet appear overwhelming. Such people may be encouraged to hear the leader of a small but significant movement against Google’s tracking techniques is not a software engineer but a philosopher and academic.”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2017/07/01/fighting-online-tracking-with-obfuscation/14988312004843
The entire article is well worth reading to get an overview of the situation and the way 'obfuscation' strategies work.

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?


No, they're run by ultra-wealthy "liberal" globalist elities so... Just like with Jeff Bezos and his Amazon.com / Washington Post empire, anything goes. Any monopolizing, any manipulating of public opinion, any price fixing or even political fixing, anything at all, is fine.

Didn't you get the memo


Bullshit, the real memos read, "How can we use the web tracking to make more money. ?" These algorithms are devised by the profiteer, the corporation and right wing constituency of the investor class.

This is all purely profit driven and is all right up there in capitalist, rent-seeking, right wing Valhalla.


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/3/2017 5:30:52 PM   
vincentML


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FR

Truthfully, I am delighted I lived long enough to enjoy using the internet, my smart phone, and my smart TV. I have not seen any ill effects from data collection except an occasional advert that has been targeted to my last visit at some retailer, which is easily ignored. Not at all bothered by big data and damned happy to be able to communicate with folks from other nations. The world was so restricted back in the day of just print, radio, and a couple of three news channels. The information available now is mind expanding. I recall sitting in libraries doing research through printed indices. What a chore and a bore. I am so damn glad I did not miss all of this.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/4/2017 4:03:26 AM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR

Truthfully, I am delighted I lived long enough to enjoy using the internet, my smart phone, and my smart TV. I have not seen any ill effects from data collection except an occasional advert that has been targeted to my last visit at some retailer, which is easily ignored. Not at all bothered by big data and damned happy to be able to communicate with folks from other nations. The world was so restricted back in the day of just print, radio, and a couple of three news channels. The information available now is mind expanding. I recall sitting in libraries doing research through printed indices. What a chore and a bore. I am so damn glad I did not miss all of this.


Ayepper.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/26/2017 7:35:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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There are difficult questions about a information reserve for good service vs. its potential use for malice.

I don't think government is on top of this technologically (except perhaps the military), and this is an area I don't trust them either.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/26/2017 11:24:42 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

There are difficult questions about a information reserve for good service vs. its potential use for malice.

I don't think government is on top of this technologically (except perhaps the military), and this is an area I don't trust them either.

I can't disagree with you on that except that information was used for malice long before it was digitized. The problem now is that bullshit is spread around so much faster. I am encouraged by the fake news alarms educating people to be aware that there are actually lies said on twitter and all that. Even on Collarchat, would you believe? Astounding!

What remains troubling are the events that are never revealed in our news sources, or are misinterpreted by our news services. For example, I wonder how many posters on here are aware that American troops once landed in Russia and later in China on offensive missions. I hope I am wrong but I think not many and I think it is more true of the general population. I don't remember our invasions of Russia and China in my history textbooks. Maybe the dog ate those pages.

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RE: Is Google too big, powerful and intrusive? - 7/26/2017 11:43:04 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11241
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Many people using the Internet have concerns about privacy issues. People often report feeling powerless to control the level of intrusion by Web giants such as Google and Facebook. Once we click on a link, it seems we lose all control over who gets to see that data, how it is traded, how it is used to fashion advertising directed at us personally and how aggregating this data enables the internet behemoths to create alarmingly accurate pictures of us, our tastes, interests, likes and dislikes, political views etc.

One way of sabotaging Google’s attempts to build comprehensive data pictures of us and our lives is emerging with ‘obfuscation’ programs, designed to fool Google’s data collecting programs and greatly reduce their ability to develop accurate personal histories online.

“In reality, most of us don’t push back against online tracking because we don’t feel we can – the inner workings of the internet appear overwhelming. Such people may be encouraged to hear the leader of a small but significant movement against Google’s tracking techniques is not a software engineer but a philosopher and academic.”
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2017/07/01/fighting-online-tracking-with-obfuscation/14988312004843
The entire article is well worth reading to get an overview of the situation and the way 'obfuscation' strategies work.

This strikes me as an issue that crosses all boundaries, something that we all might agree is an area of concern. As the gap bertween online and offline lives closes, privacy is becoming a key area of concern for many. Are Internet giants like Google and Facebook too large and powerful? How can we reduce their power over us? Do we have any right to privacy at all? If so how should it be respected online?


No, they're run by ultra-wealthy "liberal" globalist elities so... Just like with Jeff Bezos and his Amazon.com / Washington Post empire, anything goes. Any monopolizing, any manipulating of public opinion, any price fixing or even political fixing, anything at all, is fine.

Didn't you get the memo


Bullshit, the real memos read, "How can we use the web tracking to make more money. ?" These algorithms are devised by the profiteer, the corporation and right wing constituency of the investor class.

This is all purely profit driven and is all right up there in capitalist, rent-seeking, right wing Valhalla.






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