longwayhome
Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This is as good a place as any.
Believe it or not, there are some things that rm says that I agree with. There SHOULD be support services for men. I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say 'half the money spent on services should be for men,' because frankly, that's not how the money is being used. We still need to make an effort to encourage men to report. The stigma is high for men and we need to be working on that.
Now, I know that we're on a kink site and there's always a lot of bluster about whether people have the RIGHT to leave, or to have all of their money controlled, and other fun stuff that we do in the name of BDSM. Whatever it is that people think, yes, you DO have the right to leave an abusive relationship. Your gender, age, race, religion, sexual or kink orientation don't change that. What we probably should be doing is giving folks tips and advice about HOW to get out of DV situations, because THOSE situations are what are ruining people's lives.
rm knows this.
We have been round and round in circles with rm creating a strawman by suggesting that people on this site deny that men suffer from violence and specifically domestic violence.
We have demonstrated that the so-called feminists here all support services for men in a form that is useful to them (e.g. there is often a need for counselling as opposed to refuge type services). These services do exist, although not everywhere.
We have also demonstrated that, despite his protestations, the most serious domestic violence is committed by men on women.
Unfortunately for rm, he thinks that acknowledging the seriousness of violence against women and the existence of violence against men are mutually exclusive positions.
In policy terms, women and men both require and want different services and women's services are inevitably going to cost more than men's, partly due to the scale of the problem and partly due to issues relating to children and access to finances. It is no doubt true that in many places services for men are patchy or non-existent but it is also true that spending on services for women is inadequate and has done little to reduce violence against women in practice.
Most of all rm can't handle the fact that his points about services for male victims do nothing to negate the fact that men commit the vast majority of serious violence, including domestic violence. In the UK alone, where our murder rate is relatively low, women are four times more likely than men to be killed by a partner or ex-partner, and many of the men who are killed are killed by male partners. Violence of all sorts against men (including murders of men by their partners) has fallen significantly over a ten year period, violence against women has not.
Back in October I got so frustrated that I went to the raw data and spent some time pulling together the post below. It seems just as relevant now.
quote:
ORIGINAL: longwayhome
quote:
ORIGINAL: respectmen
Why do feminists take male on female violence so seriously, peon? They'll eventually get over it. Life goes on. Just a few back handers and punches...not like the pain last forever, ay? So why all the fuss about this?
You see what I'm doing, peon? I'm demonstrating the same level of the lack of empathy feminists show for male victims.
So I guess if you want equality, we all should start empathising women the same level as men are empathised.
Now, don't whinge. You wanted equality, now here it is.
You have to make people point out unpleasant truths to you all the time, don't you?
Female violence is undeniably unacceptable. How many times do you have to hear people say it, before you recognise that they are serious?
Anyone suffering from domestic abuse be they male, female, adult or child requires support (which in most developed countries is available). Report domestic abuse - UK Goverment and Domestic Violence and abuse guidance - UK Government. I've given you the gov.uk links as examples. All people whatever age, gender or sexuality are included. How many times do you have to hear people say that, before you believe that they are sincere?
So far, so good. No sign of any bias or prejudice there.
Now, let's cut straight to the chase and pander a bit to your world view.
Let's forget reports of bruises, breaks, hospitalisations and life-long disability because you think these figures are massaged by the sexist authorities. Let's even pretend that women initiate as much domestic or partner violence as men. Then we can go even further and postulate that the female violence is not reported because men feel ashamed and fail to report, and when they do they are disbelieved and the prejudiced justice system fails to record reports or pursue convictions. We will therefore disregard all the statistics on less than fatal harm because you say that they are a product of systematic bias.
Okay, so far in this imaginary scenario violence and aggression by women is at an equal level to that perpetrated by men, but is is hidden by shame and prejudice. The second part of that statement is certainly true to an extent but the first part is not true. We will fly with it anyway.
The one thing you cannot deny in any way, shape or form is the fact that men kill far more women in domestic violence and partner violence incidents at a far higher level than the other way round. You have to really delve into the government statistics to get past the domestic violence headlines, but women in the UK as an example were four times more likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner, with the perpetrator almost always being male (as in very high 90 percents). Men were also responsible for a significant number of the male partner killings.
Once you take women killed by partners out of the equation, the two really big groups in the statistics are men killed by friends/acquaintances (not partner or family) and men killed by strangers or unknown. Both of these figures tend to be on a par or higher than the number of women killed by family members (it changes year to year), meaning that more men are murdered overall than women. It should however be noted that these murders are once again overwhelmingly carried out by men.
The real killer (pun intended) is that, contrary to all your bluster, the people who have benefited most from the fall in the numbers of UK murders are men. The murders of men in the combined friends/acquaintances group and the stranger/unknown group has declined by over 40% in the last ten years. Murders of men by their partners has also fallen by about a half, whilst the numbers of women killed by their partners has only fallen by between 10 and 20% (and I had to manipulate the starting year to get the maximum reduction there.)
So men are responsible for the vast majority of murders, and the vast majority of domestic murders.
Also, in the UK at least, the number of men being killed has reduced far more in the last ten years than the number of women being killed, both in absolute terms and by percentage.
Men commit most of the fatal violence and the change in laws, social attitudes, policing and education over the last ten years have provided far greater tangible benefits for men than for women.
You know mate, it's not so bad being a man, even if you have to live with the fact that other men commit most of the serious violence.
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RE: Greedy feminists clutching DV funding are ruining m... - 
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