Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (Full Version)

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WickedsDesire -> Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/6/2017 1:39:38 PM)

Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner?

A newly-discovered photo suggests legendary US pilot Amelia Earhart might have died in Japanese custody - and not in a plane crash in the Pacific.

If true, it would solve one of aviation history's biggest mysteries.
Earhart vanished during a 1937 flight over the Pacific - and her disappearance has been a breeding ground for speculation ever since.

A photograph from the 1930s shows a figure that could be her, taken on the then-Japanese Marshall Islands.

However, at least one prominent expert has poured cold water on the claim, saying he was "astounded" it had taken off.

The new material - presented as evidence for an old theory - is a black-and-white photograph found in the vaults of the US National Archives.




MrRodgers -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/6/2017 3:43:49 PM)

There isn't enough evidence one way or the other to prove what happened to that plane and crew.




PeonForHer -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/6/2017 4:38:05 PM)

It'd be sad if that's how her life were to have ended. But it would have been just as sad if she'd hit the sea and drowned. On the whole: I won't think about it. I like my heros and heroines to have died magnificent deaths, and that is that.




Edwird -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 3:08:29 AM)

What people don't know is that Anastasia Nikolaevna was the co-pilot, and that the boy they had kidnapped from Charles Lindbergh just a few years before was in the back seat of the plane.

And that they all survived.





WhoreMods -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 4:31:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

What people don't know is that Anastasia Nikolaevna was the co-pilot, and that the boy they had kidnapped from Charles Lindbergh just a few years before was in the back seat of the plane.

And that they all survived.



You're forgetting Ambrose Bierce: they picked him up off a mountaintop in Mexico on their way out.




servantforuse -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 5:20:32 AM)

If she were a prisoner, wouldn't there be Japanese soldiers in the photo.




WhoreMods -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 5:36:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If she were a prisoner, wouldn't there be Japanese soldiers in the photo.

Given the photo was taken on a wharf, they'd be down the landward side of that, out of shot, wouldn't they?




WickedsDesire -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 6:20:42 AM)

History channel did a documentary recently: which I missed as I was lying sloshed in the gutter, or watching Ancient Aliens on H2, or possibly both.

I remember getting a bit about her History at primary school I wonder why? And something about us handsome lot crushing you Englandshire jackals at Bannockburn.

I am sure she popped up in some book I read, and Ancient Aliens perhaps, and star trek. And she does have a tendency to make the BBC news site every 1-3 years - I wonder why.




servantforuse -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 9:21:33 AM)

No, They weren't that nice to their prisoners of war.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 9:26:32 AM)

they were horrific to them




WhoreMods -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 9:28:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

No, They weren't that nice to their prisoners of war.

If that smudge in the background is her plane, she's only just been picked up and has yet to experience the delights of captivity at the hands of Imperial Japan. She might even have twigged that she was about to be locked up when the photo was taken. Bear in mind that the photo (if it's what t appears to be and on the level) was taken five years before the attack on Pearl Harbour when the only nation Japan were at war with was China.




angelikaJ -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 9:48:31 AM)

Good analysis here.




servantforuse -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 9:54:41 AM)

As hard as I try, I can't see an airplane on a barge. Some see it but I'm not one of them I guess. It would be nice to have this mystery solved though.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/7/2017 2:25:57 PM)

were they worse than the Germans?
I actually think so in my humble opinion

fear me




WhoreMods -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/8/2017 4:53:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

were they worse than the Germans?
I actually think so in my humble opinion

No they weren't.
They applied the bushido code to POWs in a deeply inappropriate way and vindictive way, but they didn't carry out extermination programmes on civilian prisoners. A lot of what they did was appalling and dreadful (and some of what went on in Manchuria is vastly worse than the better publicised ill treatment of western prisoners), but they didn't set out to gas all of the lefties, homosexuals, jews and mentally ill civilians in their occupied territories.
If you're just going by treatment of enemy combatants who were imprisoned after surrendering then yes, the Japanese were far worse than the Germans, but when the matter of civilian prisoners is raised, they suddenly look an awful lot better. Did Anne Frank or JG Ballard do better out of the memoir they wrote about their childhood experiences during the war?




WickedsDesire -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/8/2017 7:43:14 AM)

They instilled so much fear in the native subhuman islanders that the islanders were chucking themselves of cliffs to avoid the American rapists and torturers

Whether this next bit is true (probably is)According to interviews carried out by the New York Times and published by them in 2000, several elderly people from an Okinawan village confessed that after the United States had won the Battle of Okinawa, three armed marines kept coming to the village every week to force the villagers to gather all the local women, who were then carried off into the hills and raped. The article goes deeper into the matter and claims that the villagers' tale — true or not — is part of a "dark, long-kept secret" the unraveling of which "refocused attention on what historians say is one of the most widely ignored crimes of the war": 'the widespread rape of Okinawan women by American servicemen."[26] Although Japanese reports of rape were largely ignored at the time, academic estimates have been that as many as 10,000 Okinawan women may have been raped. It has been claimed that the rape was so prevalent that most Okinawans over age 65 around the year 2000 either knew or had heard of a woman who was raped in the aftermath of the war

Nevertheless Japan seems to go largely unnoticed regarding war crimes - mind you I usually say the Russians were the worst of those three Countries




Musicmystery -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/8/2017 7:51:44 AM)

The photo and article are proof of people's overactive imaginations.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/8/2017 8:07:57 AM)

Never saw the latest documentary - facial recognition experts said it was her?

Anyway for some reason we were taught about her at primary (4-12 age)school (same time spent on the civil war) and she persistently pops up on our main news website all the time. More time was spent on eg suffragettes etc - ive no idea what the English curriculum was - but it would appear many of the English were also taught about her in school? or are simply well read...oi English jackals were you taught about that modernish day nightingale and she was you know) at primary school? Part of me often pretends all they got was the Empire :p And yes we got Florence Nightingale too




jlf1961 -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/8/2017 1:17:32 PM)

Given her estimated position by the US Navy ship that received her last radio calls, and the fact the woman refused to equip the aircraft with a trailing antenna for her radio, and her statement of what she was doing in search of land, the only appreciable land mass she could have possibly crashed on (which was searched) was a small atoll that no body even wanted.

Now, addressing the point about the antenna.

The antenna routinely equipped on the lockheed electra aircraft that she was flying would have limited her maximum transmission range to a 120 mile radius.

This means that the Navy ship picking up her transmission would have been 120 miles from any point along the north south line she said she was flying looking for Howland island.

The navy ship was at a position that was 80 nautical miles north east of Howland island, and their radio operator estimated she was at a point west of the island, and not getting clear reception of his signals.

Therefore, she would have been flying north and south along a line 40 to 60 miles west of the island she was looking for.

There are three atolls along that line, none of which had wreckage of her aircraft. A air search was out of the question since the US (and Japan) for that matter had no long range aircraft in the area to conduct an extensive search.

Of course, if she were flying low enough, the radio phenomena referred to as 'skip' could have come into play which means her aircraft could have been as far as 500 miles from the ship receiving her transmission.

However, since her antenna would have broadcast her signals unidirectionally, and no other ship operating in that part of the ocean at the time reported hearing her radio calls, that possibility is remote.

I would also point out that her planned flight path did not take her over any Japanese held islands, and she was renowned for her navigation abilities, which means one of two things:

1) she was getting a false reading from her compass (possible, but that means a large chunk of metal near the device)
2) she was getting conflicting readings from her radio compass and her magnetic compass causing a type of instrument induced vertigo.

I am inclined to believe the second.

She was receiving a weak signal from the navy ship, and decided that the radio compass (a device that tells you what direction a radio signal is coming from) was in error.

Now, for those who would dispute my opinion, I would like to use the disappearance of flight 19 as an example.

In that incident (well documented as a mystery of the Bermuda triangle) the flight leader claimed his magnetic compass was in error in radio transmissions received by land stations. He also disputed the accuracy of the radio compass with land stations and other pilots in flight (interplane communications were monitored) and refused to allow another pilot to take over navigation.

As a HAM radio operator, I routinely use a radio compass to determine the direction of an incoming long distance transmission on a ground plain antenna before switching to a directional to respond to the signal.

Now the Electra had a crude (by today's standards) directional antenna for locating the source of a radio transmission. This had to be manipulated by hand, physically turning a wheel to aim the antenna.

Directional antennas can and do receive on the back side of the antenna, so it is possible she was convinced the signal she was receiving was on the back side of the antenna, and the gauge on her instrument panel was in error.

While I was not in the cockpit, this seems a logical deduction, when you consider that even today, most aircraft mishaps that are listed as pilot error while in flight are due to the simple explanation that the pilot refused to believe what his instruments were telling him/her.

Pilots are not the only ones subject to such problems, it has happened on ships operating close ashore, and even with the advanced electronic navigation aids that are in use today.

As for the photo, I do not completely rule out that it is possibly of Amelia Earhart, but considering the number of christian missionaries on those islands, the chances are that it is of someone else.

Furthermore, the Japanese were meticulous record keepers.

They kept records of the Americans who died on the Bataan death march, complete as to cause, and if the prisoner was killed, in many cases the name of the Japanese soldier who performed the execution (which led to a large number of post war prison sentences.)

There are no Japanese Imperial war records of Amelia Earhart, and considering that at the time she would have been found by the Japanese, they were trying to curry favor with the US since the US was against their war in China, turning over her body or even her would have gone a long way diplomatically.

Even if they did suspect her of spying for the US.

Of course, there is the theory that she was in love with her copilot and they staged the 'disappearance' in order to live a life together.

And I must also point out that there was the crash of the plane during her first attempt, and even after repairs there were some issues.

She made a wheels up forced landing in the aircraft, which caused structural damage to the air frame. While some of the damage was repaired, the extent of the damage was not fully determined.

Now, addressing this, I will point out that the 8th Air Force, even in the early days of daylight bombing over Europe when replacement aircraft were in short supply, scrapped B17's that made wheels up landings out of concern over possible damage to the wing strut assemblies (when wings fall off aircraft, it tends to ruin the day of the crews.)

Lockheed offered to replace the Electra damaged in the wheels up landing and Mrs. Earhart declined the offer, pointing out that the necessary modifications to the new aircraft would take to long and set back her timetable.

And while her disappearance is indeed the most famous, I would point out that others attempted the same endeavor, including 2 French, 6 British and one other American. All failed and a large number never heard from again, and all on the same leg of the flight.

Proving the common thought of the time, civilian aircraft available at the time were not up to the challenge. Military aircraft on the other hand had done the flight, including a flight of B17 C's, without any modifications.




Musicmystery -> RE: Amelia Earhart: Does photo show she died a Japanese prisoner? (7/26/2017 6:46:39 AM)

I really appreciate the thought and detail you put into your posts.




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