RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (Full Version)

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Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 6:40:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Ok briefly.....
Existence itself requires a so-called 'first cause fallacy.'

I believe that is basically what I was pointing out, that if you use the “first cause fallacy” for Religion then you have to realize that the same thing applies to Evolution.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
My threads are in general terms and not specifically directed at any one person unless I write that in.

Then don’t quote others, just use the little box at the bottom of the page. Because when you quote someone, even if you remove everything they say, it still says down at the bottom of your post; (in reply to Milesnmiles) and that gives the appearance that you are “specifically directing” it at someone, unless you “specifically” say otherwise.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Some people believe Elvis is still alive. They pay in opprobrium for that belief. Why do religious believers escape such payment ? Islam pays dearly for their 'belief' that the solar system is geocentric.

I don’t know, maybe because God is on their side? [;)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
So as far as gods go, yes there are many. But the Catholics just 'reduced' them to saints and have a saint for almost everything.
Yes, it seems so.





Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 6:45:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Yes believers are monolithic and in the single most important way.

All theistic believers I've seen, read and known, believe stone age fairly tales, which in representing the beliefs of some several billion people in the big 3 are believers where simply the latest rendition of which is a very similar ancient fairly tale based on something called the Quran.

So pick a god, pick a book, pick a dogma and and one become monolithic in their faith.

And atheists never put anyone down? [;)]



Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 6:49:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
...
In fact, usually the opposite is true. It is the 'god-fearing' allegedly devout practitioners that all throughout history, have been violent subscribers to such spiritual despotism and fascism.
...

You must know that there have been atheists that have been violent despots as well.

The problem is not religion or atheism the problem is that mankind is rotting at the core and something has to be done about it.


There may have been but I don't know of any. However, for the fascist and yes, the big 3 too, religion is a ripe fruit of cooperation even obedience of society at large in a highly religious and faithful country. Much easier to take control using the church and many despots did just that.

Again you need to take a closer look at history, there have been Religions that not gone along with despots and have lead their followers in peaceful revolt.



Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 6:52:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
...
In fact, usually the opposite is true. It is the 'god-fearing' allegedly devout practitioners that all throughout history, have been violent subscribers to such spiritual despotism and fascism.
...

You must know that there have been atheists that have been violent despots as well.

The problem is not religion or atheism the problem is that mankind is rotting at the core and something has to be done about it.


There may have been but I don't know of any. However, for the fascist and yes, the big 3 too, religion is a ripe fruit of cooperation even obedience of society at large in a highly religious and faithful country. Much easier to take control using the church and many despots did just that.

I don't believe mankind is rotting to the core. I observe that the core of mankind is evil and we keep rising back to it.

potato/potatoes tomato/tomatoes [;)]



Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 7:34:37 AM)

I apologize Vincent for letting myself be lead off topic, I’m bad at that.

I find a topic that sounds interesting and just go down the posts commenting on what has been posted and always at first it is on topic but after a couple of pages, just following the flow of the conversation, I’m off topic and wondering how I got here from there.

I was getting ready to reply to MrRodgers and realized nothing about the post or my coming reply was “on topic”, well maybe superficially but I thought I’d check with you seeing as this is your thread.



vincentML -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 7:40:31 AM)

Thank you, Miles. I do not own the thread. It is understandable that people run off topic now and then. It becomes offensive when the thread is thoroughly kidnapped. You have not done that.




Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:32:13 AM)

Thank you for this cornucopia of “wise” things that atheists repeat as if it was dogma.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Also, I was thinking about proof the other day and I thought it is a little like trying to prove that there is such a thing as color to someone totally blind from birth.

But trying to 'prove' something that needs to be seen to be proved to a blind person is as tough as proving there is a god...that nobody in history has ever seen.

That “nobody in history has ever seen”; Please, do you really think it is possible for a human being to see God up close and personal?

I know that sometimes people can be too Anthropomorphic with God but do you really think that a being that has the force within himself to create the universe is someone you can stand close enough to actually see? Or even get close enough to even think about the possibility of seeing him?

Also, you may want to consider the fact “that nobody in history has ever seen” Evolution.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Besides, color to a 100% blind person borders on irrelevant. Just like proving there was a Beethoven to a deaf person.

Irrelevant? Not to a blind person, I can tell you don’t deal with the blind or the deaf very much.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Wouldn't such a person's first question be...'Why did 'god' make me blind ? For surely, god did.

Another gem, why would God stand around at everybody’s birth and decide I’m going to make this one blind and not that one?

If someone has a heart attack and dies is it God's fault or does the fact that the person was 200 lbs. overweight, never exercised and didn’t care what he ate or drank have something to do with it?

You ever stop to think that maybe God gave us everything we needed to make the Earth a paradise and said have at it and that it is mankind’s own fault for throwing it all away and making the Earth a giant poison pit? Even giving them some "suggestions" from time to time to help them out which they almost totally ignored.

No, it can’t be our fault let’s blame it all on God, even though he doesn’t exist.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
As an atheist, I do not change in any way when discussing religion. Rather, the mere discovery in fact changes the believers and there respect for what I say.

Honestly, you need to find yourself a better class of believers.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
It doesn't really upset me but what does border on ridiculous is the claim that atheism [is] a religion and atheists do have a god. All of it is merely an attempt to create an equivalence which of course...believers never can.

I don’t believe I have ever said “atheists do have a god” but I will say that it does appear that mankind seems to have need for a deity in their lives, based on the fact that no matter how separated a group of individuals may have been, when discovered somehow they had a “religion” and none were atheistic.

So, I believe that if a person removes “God” from their life something will move in to fill that gap, call it what you will.



mnottertail -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:33:53 AM)

Yeah, I wouldnt know why it wouldnt be possible, if he is real, this is supposed to be an open book test.




Real0ne -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:37:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Thank you for this cornucopia of “wise” things that atheists repeat as if it was dogma.

Please, do you really think it is possible for a human being to see God up close and personal?



Yep it is their religious dogma, they live in fantasy land pretending they have no religion, which is as reasonable as saying they are water thats not H2O
LMAO!!

Sure they think they should be able to shake hands with God, sit down have a beer with God, then if they get pissed off at God take God in the back alley and beat'em up! lol



Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:40:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
This is hardly a thread about religion or christianity - This is a thread about creationism.

Creationists are not the representatives of global christianity. Neither the catholic, orthodox, lutheran, anglican and a few more churches, nor jews, nor many muslims have any problems with Darwinist evolution theory. The only ones who can not come to terms with evolution are a loud minority of evangelical literalists. When these get opposition they love to behave as if they were persecuted martyrs in a Neronian arena and blame the cruelty of atheists or whoever else.

I apologize if I have acted like a “loud” “evangelical literalist” and have “behaved” like a “persecuted martyr in a Neronian arena” and have been “blaming the cruelty of atheists”, I though I was behaving myself. [;)]



Real0ne -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:42:25 AM)

Thats the seperation between idiots and people with more than one brain cell.
Unlike the loony atheists who all suffer from cognitive dissonance, religious people realize that you cant touch time, or space, or the title 'Ron' either, but they are all very real.



mnottertail -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 8:50:41 AM)

You are full retard today as always. Hopeless, go with god, RealRetardZero



PyrotheClown -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:02:42 AM)

I'm always amazed that there are still creationists in this wondrous age of instant information.
Then I remind myself that "flat earthers" are a thing and that Trump is president..



blnymph -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:29:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
This is hardly a thread about religion or christianity - This is a thread about creationism.

Creationists are not the representatives of global christianity. Neither the catholic, orthodox, lutheran, anglican and a few more churches, nor jews, nor many muslims have any problems with Darwinist evolution theory. The only ones who can not come to terms with evolution are a loud minority of evangelical literalists. When these get opposition they love to behave as if they were persecuted martyrs in a Neronian arena and blame the cruelty of atheists or whoever else.

I apologize if I have acted like a “loud” “evangelical literalist” and have “behaved” like a “persecuted martyr in a Neronian arena” and have been “blaming the cruelty of atheists”, I though I was behaving myself. [;)]


No need for apologies, thanks.
But in case of doubt you 'll find the answer not above but below the post I quoted.



bounty44 -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:36:12 AM)

still one more time for all you comrades, not to mention the pseudo-intellectual snobs:

evolution is an atheistic religion masquerading as science.

in terms of the "scientific" rigor with which things are looked at, there does not have to be a difference between the two.

evolution denies a creator from the beginning. creationism either presupposes one, or at least allows for one.

however, evolutionists continue to believe as they do IN SPITE of having no evidence and in the face of an abundance of evidence that might steer a more open minded person towards a creator.



Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:38:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You should expect me to say that your comparison with evolution to astrology is far beyond the pale.
Yes, I expected it and thought it would probably be you.

But the comparison I was drawing was to what Astrology once was to Astronomy, although it was bogus, it was the driving force behind many great discoveries in Astronomy and I feel that Evolution has been the driving force behind many great discoveries but is also bogus.

And although at this time it does seem that the comparison is “far beyond the pale”, I feel that one day Astrology and Evolution will be put in the same category.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
And once again I assert that Believers debate against evolution to cover over the complete lack of credibility of creationism.

I do not “debate against evolution to cover over the complete lack of credibility of creationism”; I find Creation to be credible, it is Evolution that I don’t find to be credible.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You do not have any positive comments to persuade your side of the debate; you can only point to gaps in our understanding of evolution regardless of the fact that we are gathering evidence from along the trail that stretches over 4.5 billion years while you rest your claim on an imagined single moment, or a few single moments.

You have said this a couple of times now, you must think that this is somehow persuasive but it’s not.

Just because I did not come up with the science or someone didn’t make a big deal out of announcing I’m a Creationist before coming up with the science doesn’t mean that someone can’t use that science to come up with a different conclusion. When it comes to science, you can’t just say it’s my bat and ball and I’m taking them and going home, science is everybody's to do with as they wish.

And about the gaps and there are millions of them, the only linage that appears even half filled is mankind’s and that linage is constantly changing. The rest of the existing linages have few if any found “missing links” and that is glossed over with a wink of the eye and a “they are there we just haven’t found them yet” or “the fossil record isn’t good about preserving them”.

As for the one or two “special moments” you mention, you have to admit they are pretty big and stop evolution dead in its tracks. Such as the “moment” when “lightening” strikes the “special” "mud pond" and stops and reverses entropy and starts this whole Evolution thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
As far as insult and slander, I have seen none from you. You have been a gentleman, which is a pleasant diversion from the usual smug crap I encounter from your brethren, whose certainty comes only from their portrayal as the lost apostle. I have no complaint with you, Mr. Miles except you should be prepared to accept in return the "slight" digs against your belief in such a simplistic creed.

Thanx again, I feel the same about you and I actually enjoy the occasional "slight" digs, if I didn’t get a few I would think you didn’t like me anymore. “Simplistic creed”, indeed! [;)]





Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:41:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Thank you, Miles. I do not own the thread. It is understandable that people run off topic now and then. It becomes offensive when the thread is thoroughly kidnapped. You have not done that.

Thanx, now I want to talk about whether Rock 'n Roll is dead or not. [;)]



Marini -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:41:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Please don't tell me you have not seen or read the vitriolic hateful things that have been written by people about Christians on here, for YEARS.
pages and pages, threads and threads of gleeful Christian bashing

I'll tell you, I've seen no such thing and we are talking 100's of 1000's of threads on the subject of religion. I've also never seen or heard any such thing out here on the flatland. Occasional, yes, but nothing like you write here...and for YEARS ?



This is hardly a thread about religion or christianity - This is a thread about creationism.

Creationists are not the representatives of global christianity. Neither the catholic, orthodox, lutheran, anglican and a few more churches, nor jews, nor many muslims have any problems with Darwinist evolution theory. The only ones who can not come to terms with evolution are a loud minority of evangelical literalists. When these get opposition they love to behave as if they were persecuted martyrs in a Neronian arena and blame the cruelty of atheists or whoever else.



Not here to fight, lovely weather
Enjoy the day
[;)]




Milesnmiles -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:47:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Not here to fight, lovely weather
Enjoy the day
[;)]

It rained a little last night, always welcome here in Colorado and now it is a beautiful day and everything is green.
Which reminds me I should probably take my motorcycle out and exercise it some. [;)]
Likewise, everyone enjoy the day.



Marini -> RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster (8/5/2017 9:52:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Thank you for this cornucopia of “wise” things that atheists repeat as if it was dogma.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Also, I was thinking about proof the other day and I thought it is a little like trying to prove that there is such a thing as color to someone totally blind from birth.

But trying to 'prove' something that needs to be seen to be proved to a blind person is as tough as proving there is a god...that nobody in history has ever seen.

That “nobody in history has ever seen”; Please, do you really think it is possible for a human being to see God up close and personal?

I know that sometimes people can be too Anthropomorphic with God but do you really think that a being that has the force within himself to create the universe is someone you can stand close enough to actually see? Or even get close enough to even think about the possibility of seeing him?

Also, you may want to consider the fact “that nobody in history has ever seen” Evolution.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Besides, color to a 100% blind person borders on irrelevant. Just like proving there was a Beethoven to a deaf person.

Irrelevant? Not to a blind person, I can tell you don’t deal with the blind or the deaf very much.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Wouldn't such a person's first question be...'Why did 'god' make me blind ? For surely, god did.

Another gem, why would God stand around at everybody’s birth and decide I’m going to make this one blind and not that one?

If someone has a heart attack and dies is it God's fault or does the fact that the person was 200 lbs. overweight, never exercised and didn’t care what he ate or drank have something to do with it?

You ever stop to think that maybe God gave us everything we needed to make the Earth a paradise and said have at it and that it is mankind’s own fault for throwing it all away and making the Earth a giant poison pit? Even giving them some "suggestions" from time to time to help them out which they almost totally ignored.

No, it can’t be our fault let’s blame it all on God, even though he doesn’t exist.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
As an atheist, I do not change in any way when discussing religion. Rather, the mere discovery in fact changes the believers and there respect for what I say.

Honestly, you need to find yourself a better class of believers.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
It doesn't really upset me but what does border on ridiculous is the claim that atheism [is] a religion and atheists do have a god. All of it is merely an attempt to create an equivalence which of course...believers never can.

I don’t believe I have ever said “atheists do have a god” but I will say that it does appear that mankind seems to have need for a deity in their lives, based on the fact that no matter how separated a group of individuals may have been, when discovered somehow they had a “religion” and none were atheistic.

So, I believe that if a person removes “God” from their life something will move in to fill that gap, call it what you will.


[sm=goodpost.gif]
I love reading everything you have taken the time to write on these forums.
I have appreciated reading your words, and you have given me a lot to think about.
Thank you
Peace and Blessings to you
✌️



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