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Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:17:59 PM   
BoscoX


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To fix their election!

quote:

Video - Michael Caputo: "The funny thing is... I was sent in 1994 to Russia by the Clinton administration to get involved in THEIR elections!"

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/886027423074197508


Really fucked them, too. Didn't turn out well

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:23:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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Getting beat up in other threads, time to start another one, eh?

I don't think you get that, at least in theory, we're on the US side here.

So we're concerned with US law, US sovereignty.

See how that works?

Are you a citizen?

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:28:01 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Getting beat up in other threads, time to start another one, eh?

I don't think you get that, at least in theory, we're on the US side here.

So we're concerned with US law, US sovereignty.

See how that works?

Are you a citizen?


A lightweight little know-it-all punk like you talking big about beating people up from the safety of your mom's basement is nothing short of laughable

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:31:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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...and he dodges the question.

Did you sneak across the border or just overstay your visa?

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:41:55 PM   
mnottertail


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So, we better give them back Gary Powers to torture and get maylays to perform more female genital mutilation to satisfy the pantshitting pedophile nutsuckers.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 12:43:38 PM   
Musicmystery


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He's not gonna understand the reference.

Better get him Austin Powers.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:02:48 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

He's not gonna understand the reference.

Better get him Austin Powers.


Understand the reference?

Who reads your felchgoblin socks stupid, insane drivel other than you

No one

Just like whore boy and WD, they are your troll army and yours alone

No one fucking cares about the insanity they spew

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:09:32 PM   
Musicmystery


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Felchgoblin socks, eh?

So much for any knowledge of US history, heroic pilots, or US/Russian intelligence crises.

Are you sure you're from the US?

Did you sneak in, or overstay your visa?

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:11:15 PM   
mnottertail


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nobody gives a shit about your compound gimping felchgobbler, and so now, st wrinklemeat gave WMD to Iran, so its ok they got them if nutsuckers are not hypocritical pantshitters, according to the putinjizz felchgobbling you are trying to pass off as other than retardation and pedophilia.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:14:14 PM   
BoscoX


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Joined: 12/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Felchgoblin socks, eh?

So much for any knowledge of US history, heroic pilots, or US/Russian intelligence crises.

Are you sure you're from the US?

Did you sneak in, or overstay your visa?


That's cute!

It's almost like you really expect people to understand your insane spew

Very special

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:19:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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So now history is "insane spew."

FFS. What a moron.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:21:21 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So now history is "insane spew."

FFS. What a moron.


That's what I posted in your insane delusions?

It just keeps getting more hilarious

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:24:59 PM   
Musicmystery


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Yep.



Gary Powers – was an American pilot whose Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)[1] U-2 spy plane was shot down while flying a reconnaissance mission in Soviet Union airspace, causing the 1960 U-2 incident.

U-2 pilots flew espionage missions at altitudes above 70,000 feet (21 km),[5][6][7] above the reach of Soviet air defenses.[8] The U-2 was equipped with a state-of-the-art camera[8] designed to take high-resolution photos from the edge of the stratosphere over hostile countries, including the Soviet Union. U-2 missions systematically photographed military installations and other important sites.[3]:41

"The primary mission of the U-2s was overflying Russia. The border surveillance and atomic sampling, though vital, were secondary." Additionally, the U-2 flew "special missions". "If there was a trouble spot in the Middle East, the U-2s observed it." Beginning on September 27, 1956 and continuing until 1960, "the United States was spying not only on most of the countries in the Middle East but also on her own allies."[3]:260–263

Soviet intelligence had been aware of encroaching U-2 flights at least since 1958 if not sooner[3]:47,59 but lacked effective countermeasures until 1960.[9] On May 1, 1960, Powers' U-2A, 56-6693, departed from a military airbase in Peshawar, Pakistan,[3]:53 with support from the U.S. Air Station at Badaber (Peshawar Air Station). This was to be the first attempt "to fly all the way across the Soviet Union...but it was considered worth the gamble. The planned route would take us deeper into Russia than we had ever gone, while traversing important targets never before photographed."[3]:53–54

Powers was shot down by an S-75 Dvina (SA-2 Guideline) surface-to-air missile[10] over Sverdlovsk. A total of fourteen were launched,[11] one of which hit a MiG-19 jet fighter which was sent to intercept the U-2 but could not reach a high enough altitude. Its pilot, Sergei Safronov, ejected but died of his injuries. Another Soviet aircraft, a newly manufactured Su-9 in transit flight, also attempted to intercept Powers' U-2. The unarmed Su-9 was directed to ram the U-2 but missed because of the large differences in speed (the Su-9 flew above Mach 1.1, while the U-2 flew at approximately Mach 0.6).

The first of three SA-2 Guideline (S-75 Dvina) surface-to-air missiles launched at the U-2 near Kosulino in the Ural Region impacted the aircraft. "What was left of the plane began spinning, only upside down, the nose pointing upward toward the sky, the tail down toward the ground." Powers was unable to activate the plane's self-destruct mechanism before he was thrown out of the plane after releasing the canopy and his seat belt. While descending under his parachute, Powers had time to scatter his escape map, and rid himself of part of his suicide device, a silver dollar coin suspended around his neck containing a poison-laced injection pin, though he kept the poison pin.[12] "Yet I was still hopeful of escape." He hit the ground hard, was immediately captured, and taken to Lubyanka Prison in Moscow.[3]:61–63,67–71,76 Powers did note a second chute after landing on the ground, "some distance away and very high, a lone red and white parachute".[3]:69,148–149,274,278[13]:159–160

When the U.S. government learned of Powers' disappearance over the Soviet Union, they issued a cover statement claiming a "weather plane" had strayed off course after its pilot had "difficulties with his oxygen equipment". What CIA officials did not realize was that the plane crashed almost fully intact, and the Soviets recovered its equipment.

The incident set back talks between Khrushchev and Eisenhower. Powers' interrogations ended on June 30, and his solitary confinement on July 9. On August 17, 1960, his trial for espionage began before the military division of the Supreme Court of the USSR. Three generals, Lieutenant General Borisoglebsky, Major General Vorobyev, and Major General Zakharov presided. Roman Rudenko acted as prosecutor in his capacity of Procurator General of the Soviet Union. Mikhail I. Grinev served as Powers' defense counsel. In attendance were Gary's parents and sister, as well as Barbara and her mother. Gary's father brought along his local attorney, Carl McAfee, while the CIA provided two additional attorneys.[3]:110,114,119,120,142–143,148,157–158,162,188,220

On August 19, 1960, Powers was convicted of espionage, "a grave crime covered by Article 2 of the Soviet Union's law 'On Criminality Responsibility for State Crimes'". His sentence consisted of ten years confinement, three of which were to be in a prison, with the remainder in a labor camp. The US Embassy "News Bulletin" stated, according to Powers, "as far as the government was concerned, I had acted in accordance with the instructions given me and would receive my full salary while imprisoned".[3]:157–161

He was held in Vladimir Central Prison, about 150 miles (240 km) east of Moscow, in building number 2 from September 9, 1960 until February 8, 1962.

On February 10, 1962, Powers was exchanged, along with American student Frederic Pryor, in a well-publicized spy swap at the Glienicke Bridge in Berlin. The exchange was for Soviet KGB Colonel Vilyam Fisher, known as "Rudolf Abel", who had been caught by the FBI and tried and jailed for espionage.[15] Powers credited his father with the swap idea. When released, Powers' total time in captivity was 1 year, 9 months and 10 days.[3]:237–24

On March 6, 1962, Powers appeared before a Senate Armed Services Select Committee hearing chaired by Senator Richard Russell and including Senators Prescott Bush, Leverett Saltonstall, Robert Byrd, Margaret Chase Smith, John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and Barry Goldwater, Sr. During the hearing, Senator Saltonstall stated, "I commend you as a courageous, fine young American citizen who lived up to your instructions and who did the best you could under very difficult circumstances." While Senator Bush declared, "I am satisfied he has conducted himself in exemplary fashion and in accordance with the highest traditions of service to one's country, and I congratulate him upon his conduct in captivity..." Finally, Senator Goldwater sent Powers a handwritten note stating, "You did a good job for your country."[3]:264,270–280

Powers received the CIA's Intelligence Star in 1965 after his return from the Soviet Union. On June 15, 2012, Powers was posthumously awarded the Silver Star medal for "demonstrating 'exceptional loyalty' while enduring harsh interrogation in the Lubyanka Prison in Moscow for almost two years."[24] Air Force Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz presented the decoration to Powers's grandchildren, Trey Powers, 9, and Lindsey Berry, 29, in a Pentagon ceremony.[25][26]


(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:26:08 PM   
heavyblinker


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Russia circa 1994 was a nasty place.

America circa 2016 was also a nasty place, but there is not a doubt in my mind that Russia as a liberal democracy would be a good thing, and America as a Putinesque mafia state would be a horrible thing.

For me, it's not so much about the tactics as it is about ideology... whatever saves us from Trumpism/proto-fascism is good.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:41:08 PM   
BoscoX


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Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yep.



Gary Powers – was an American pilot whose Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)[1] U-2 spy plane was shot down while flying a reconnaissance mission in Soviet Union airspace, causing the 1960 U-2 incident.

U-2 pilots flew espionage missions at altitudes above 70,000 feet (21 km),[5][6][7] above the reach of Soviet air defenses.[8] The U-2 was equipped with a state-of-the-art camera[8] designed to take high-resolution photos from the edge of the stratosphere over hostile countries, including the Soviet Union. U-2 missions systematically photographed military installations and other important sites.[3]:41

"The primary mission of the U-2s was overflying Russia. The border surveillance and atomic sampling, though vital, were secondary." Additionally, the U-2 flew "special missions". "If there was a trouble spot in the Middle East, the U-2s observed it." Beginning on September 27, 1956 and continuing until 1960, "the United States was spying not only on most of the countries in the Middle East but also on her own allies."[3]:260–263

Soviet intelligence had been aware of encroaching U-2 flights at least since 1958 if not sooner[3]:47,59 but lacked effective countermeasures until 1960.[9] On May 1, 1960, Powers' U-2A, 56-6693, departed from a military airbase in Peshawar, Pakistan,[3]:53 with support from the U.S. Air Station at Badaber (Peshawar Air Station). This was to be the first attempt "to fly all the way across the Soviet Union...but it was considered worth the gamble. The planned route would take us deeper into Russia than we had ever gone, while traversing important targets never before photographed."[3]:53–54

Powers was shot down by an S-75 Dvina (SA-2 Guideline) surface-to-air missile[10] over Sverdlovsk. A total of fourteen were launched,[11] one of which hit a MiG-19 jet fighter which was sent to intercept the U-2 but could not reach a high enough altitude. Its pilot, Sergei Safronov, ejected but died of his injuries. Another Soviet aircraft, a newly manufactured Su-9 in transit flight, also attempted to intercept Powers' U-2. The unarmed Su-9 was directed to ram the U-2 but missed because of the large differences in speed (the Su-9 flew above Mach 1.1, while the U-2 flew at approximately Mach 0.6).

The first of three SA-2 Guideline (S-75 Dvina) surface-to-air missiles launched at the U-2 near Kosulino in the Ural Region impacted the aircraft. "What was left of the plane began spinning, only upside down, the nose pointing upward toward the sky, the tail down toward the ground." Powers was unable to activate the plane's self-destruct mechanism before he was thrown out of the plane after releasing the canopy and his seat belt. While descending under his parachute, Powers had time to scatter his escape map, and rid himself of part of his suicide device, a silver dollar coin suspended around his neck containing a poison-laced injection pin, though he kept the poison pin.[12] "Yet I was still hopeful of escape." He hit the ground hard, was immediately captured, and taken to Lubyanka Prison in Moscow.[3]:61–63,67–71,76 Powers did note a second chute after landing on the ground, "some distance away and very high, a lone red and white parachute".[3]:69,148–149,274,278[13]:159–160

When the U.S. government learned of Powers' disappearance over the Soviet Union, they issued a cover statement claiming a "weather plane" had strayed off course after its pilot had "difficulties with his oxygen equipment". What CIA officials did not realize was that the plane crashed almost fully intact, and the Soviets recovered its equipment.

The incident set back talks between Khrushchev and Eisenhower. Powers' interrogations ended on June 30, and his solitary confinement on July 9. On August 17, 1960, his trial for espionage began before the military division of the Supreme Court of the USSR. Three generals, Lieutenant General Borisoglebsky, Major General Vorobyev, and Major General Zakharov presided. Roman Rudenko acted as prosecutor in his capacity of Procurator General of the Soviet Union. Mikhail I. Grinev served as Powers' defense counsel. In attendance were Gary's parents and sister, as well as Barbara and her mother. Gary's father brought along his local attorney, Carl McAfee, while the CIA provided two additional attorneys.[3]:110,114,119,120,142–143,148,157–158,162,188,220

On August 19, 1960, Powers was convicted of espionage, "a grave crime covered by Article 2 of the Soviet Union's law 'On Criminality Responsibility for State Crimes'". His sentence consisted of ten years confinement, three of which were to be in a prison, with the remainder in a labor camp. The US Embassy "News Bulletin" stated, according to Powers, "as far as the government was concerned, I had acted in accordance with the instructions given me and would receive my full salary while imprisoned".[3]:157–161

He was held in Vladimir Central Prison, about 150 miles (240 km) east of Moscow, in building number 2 from September 9, 1960 until February 8, 1962.

On February 10, 1962, Powers was exchanged, along with American student Frederic Pryor, in a well-publicized spy swap at the Glienicke Bridge in Berlin. The exchange was for Soviet KGB Colonel Vilyam Fisher, known as "Rudolf Abel", who had been caught by the FBI and tried and jailed for espionage.[15] Powers credited his father with the swap idea. When released, Powers' total time in captivity was 1 year, 9 months and 10 days.[3]:237–24

On March 6, 1962, Powers appeared before a Senate Armed Services Select Committee hearing chaired by Senator Richard Russell and including Senators Prescott Bush, Leverett Saltonstall, Robert Byrd, Margaret Chase Smith, John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and Barry Goldwater, Sr. During the hearing, Senator Saltonstall stated, "I commend you as a courageous, fine young American citizen who lived up to your instructions and who did the best you could under very difficult circumstances." While Senator Bush declared, "I am satisfied he has conducted himself in exemplary fashion and in accordance with the highest traditions of service to one's country, and I congratulate him upon his conduct in captivity..." Finally, Senator Goldwater sent Powers a handwritten note stating, "You did a good job for your country."[3]:264,270–280

Powers received the CIA's Intelligence Star in 1965 after his return from the Soviet Union. On June 15, 2012, Powers was posthumously awarded the Silver Star medal for "demonstrating 'exceptional loyalty' while enduring harsh interrogation in the Lubyanka Prison in Moscow for almost two years."[24] Air Force Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz presented the decoration to Powers's grandchildren, Trey Powers, 9, and Lindsey Berry, 29, in a Pentagon ceremony.[25][26]




Not sure even your insane little troll friends will buy that this is relevant to the topic

Not that they have any such standards or anything though. After all, they are totally insane

(Just like you)

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 1:47:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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So much for honoring an American hero.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 2:20:04 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I don't think you get that, at least in theory, we're on the US side here.
So we're concerned with US law, US sovereignty.
See how that works?


That sounds a lot like you don't care much about how the US goes about it's business, as long as US sovereignty is maintained.

I always find it amusing how hypocritical people are when they (both main parties are guilty of this) complain about other countries doing to the US what the US is doing to the other countries.


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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 3:03:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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I don't think those two statements follow.

First, the point "We interfere overseas so therefore we shouldn't care about our officials colluding with foreign governments to influence elections here" is obviously not a wash. That's the point.

Second, what I think about how we conduct foreign affairs is a whole other matter -- one I've been critical of most of my adult life. So your amusement and observation of hypocrisy is in your imagination only.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 3:54:01 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Bubba Clinton sent an operative to Russia... - 7/17/2017 4:10:16 PM   
BoscoX


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Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online


The resistance that cried wolf

It's impossible in some quarters to discuss Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting with a shady Russian lawyer without being quizzed about similar bad things politicians from the opposing party have done.

What about Ted Kennedy's secret messages to the Soviets while Ronald Reagan was running for re-election? What about the Ukrainian government trying to help Hillary Clinton? And on and on it goes.

This bit of rhetorical judo has become so common in our politics that it even has a name: "whataboutism." Naturally, its origins have been traced back to the Russians, if not even further back. The Economist's Edward Lucas described it as an attempt to "match every Soviet crime with a real or imagined Western one."

More recently, the tactic has been deployed by diehard supporters of President Trump, as well as by his more removed "anti-anti-Trumpist" backers.

And you know what? Trump's supporters are not wrong to urge us all to truly examine historical precedents. Because all too often, Trump's fiercest critics declare his every utterance and action unprecedented without bothering to thoughtfully consider the precedents.

Now, when "whataboutism" is used to defend the indefensible, it is obviously wrong. But not every historical comparison can be dismissed as simple "whataboutism." And there are good reasons why "What about ... " questions have so frequently been raised under this president. The case against Trump is not simply that he does things that are wrong or bad, but that he is bad in ways that are unprecedented and represent a sharp break from important political norms.

If we are going to chastise Trump for norm violations, shouldn't we first establish how normal or abnormal his actions in a given area really are? If we are going to say he is guilty of doing the unprecedented, shouldn't we look to see if there are in fact any precedents?

These "what about" questions also impose some accountability on Trump critics. When asked in good faith, they can be used to determine consistency and avoid double standards.

None of this means that if President Trump were to suspend habeas corpus, we should respond by saying, "Calm down! Even Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War!" It does, however, mean that even people who believe Trump represents something fundamentally different from past presidents have an obligation to try to keep him in historical perspective.

The tendency to treat everything Trump does as an emergency, without distinction, will make true emergencies more difficult to recognize. And if the press gets it wrong, hyping something that isn't especially unusual, it makes it easier for Trump to dismiss future criticisms or unflattering reports as "fake news."

Take, for example, the dearth of on-camera press briefings. There is a legitimate argument to be made that this stifles transparency because it reduces the consequences for refusing to answer questions or giving incoherent responses — the viewing public doesn't get to see the administration's representatives squirm. (It's also a missed opportunity for Trump to use the bully pulpit, but that's another story.)

What it doesn't do is end the free press, which existed before on-camera briefings were even technologically possible, or alter the character of the republic in some fundamental way. CNN's Jim Acosta is being hyperbolic when he says video of Sarah Huckabee Sanders has been "banned by the USA" and asks if it feels like America when the media is "openly" trashed or other, more conservative outlets get to ask questions instead of his.

More



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