quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

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ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

He had issues on his record that were apparently ignored. Possibly due to an affirmative action quota?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Just as an exercise, I went back through the thread and checked your 15 or so posts to see if you once expressed some regret or compassion for the victim of this sad incident. Guess what! Not once did I find anything even remotely resembling regret or compassion for the victim. Not once did you pay lip service to her unfortunate demise, or even hint or attempt it.

Unsurprisingly, you did find it in your heart to unearth some empathy for the shooter's police partner:
"His partner may have had his hearing ruined for life." (post #35)
So it cannot be said that your empathy deficit is complete.

You also managed to find ways of criticising diversity hiring, AA programs and critics of police killings. Apparently you hold these people and policies at least partially responsible for this woman's death. One can only conclude that your fondness (read: obsession) with guns and gun rights is far closer to your heart than the death of an obviously innocent woman at the hands of the police (another one of your obsessions) whose culpability you have sought to minimise or exonerate at every opportunity.

I hope the above might alert you to the one eyed way you approach and understand some of the issues raised by this case. Your obsessions are blinding you to the facts and causing you to make poor decisions as well as turning you into an emotional freezer. If you are not careful you are going to end up like Bosco, who is not considered by any sane person to be a role model worth emulating. You can do something about it if you so choose. If you don't ... well, choosing to cling to obsessions is rarely a good healthy choice ...

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

Lets hope not. Even if there were justification for the shooting (and I see none) he is a menace to his fellow officers.

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ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

I find this so darn interesting to see what the reaction of the proverbial shoe on the other foot looks like on here.

here a white woman dies by the hands of a police officer who happened to be Black not much if not the same way many Black men got killed by a police officer who happened to be white.

namely "suspicious circumstances". I'm already hearing the excuses here for why this officer should be made the example of, that miraculously somehow didn't apply to the other victim's of the same fate.

I mean, its the officers word vs. a dead person - tie goes to the officer, right??

I'm waiting to see if she has any alcohol in her system the cops can blame her lack of compliance with orders on...... no orders? oh, lets blame her pj's having a hoodie on it then.

gees.... what a wimp she was, only took one bullet to kill her,..... took 7 bullets to kill a guy up here last year..... both had empty hands....go figure.

union?? he don't need no stinkin union to save him!! he'll just use the "he feared for his life." defense and that should just clear up everything!!

but wait!! hold the phone!! the officer is what?? Black?.... AND Muslim?? .....jinkies!!

NOW we'd better change the rules of who gets to wear a gun!! Blame affirmative action!! Blame immigration!! Blame the college system that allows people to come from other professions and not have the 2 year law enforcement degree that didn't make a difference in the killers of many if not all of the Black Men before this.

Got to blame training somehow even though that didn't seem to make a difference in the killing of a Black Man by a cop who choked him to death, or the man who dies after a ride in a police van broke his neck. Or maybe the cop who pumped 8 shots into the back of a fleeing Black Man and lied about it because he knew it'd of been "cop said, dead cant".... oh wait, that cop got convicted only after a video surfaced showing the whole incident, including showing the cop also planting his backup gun on him AFTER he dies...

yup.... gptta be training issues!

we have to go back to white officers killing Black Men so people like boss-hoe & bamad can be comfortable again. after all, isn't that what really matters?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

Lets hope not. Even if there were justification for the shooting (and I see none) he is a menace to his fellow officers.

Has that ever mattered?
Da YOONYUN and the thin blue line will see him back on the street in a few months.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

Actually, he didn't. That is the sad issue here. Even white cops are trained to fire their weapon when they fear for their lives or the lives of their partners.
Neither you nor I have access to what he thought in the moment. It is presumptuous of you to make such a declaration. And once having decided from your magisterial perch that he ignored the rules (you knew what he was thinking) you then go on to make the assertion (being omniscient as you are) that he thought that way because he was a minority.

Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

Lets hope not. Even if there were justification for the shooting (and I see none) he is a menace to his fellow officers.

quote:

Just as an exercise, I went back through the thread and checked your 15 or so posts to see if you once expressed some regret or compassion for the victim of this sad incident. Guess what! Not once did I find anything even remotely resembling regret or compassion for the victim. Not once did you pay lip service to her unfortunate demise, or even hint or attempt it.

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

Lets hope not. Even if there were justification for the shooting (and I see none) he is a menace to his fellow officers.

More of a menace than you might think. There are still quite a few people in this country who will fight back. My fried told me, after I told him about all the force of the government. You can get the police where you want them just by calling. So going on a loud stereo complaint can get them picked off from across the street. You can make it impossible for them to do their job.

Every time they do stupid shit like this brings us one step closer to those days. And there will be so many people they made enemies out of they won't have a clue who to charge.

It's their call. You either quit giving these trigger happy assholes a license to kill or all of them will be in danger. I'd bet that if this fuckhead's partner is a good cop he does not want to be his partner anymore.

Would you ?

T^T

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

No worries..DA YOOOONYUN will protect him.

Lets hope not. Even if there were justification for the shooting (and I see none) he is a menace to his fellow officers.

More of a menace than you might think. There are still quite a few people in this country who will fight back. My fried told me, after I told him about all the force of the government. You can get the police where you want them just by calling. So going on a loud stereo complaint can get them picked off from across the street. You can make it impossible for them to do their job.

Every time they do stupid shit like this brings us one step closer to those days. And there will be so many people they made enemies out of they won't have a clue who to charge.

It's their call. You either quit giving these trigger happy assholes a license to kill or all of them will be in danger. I'd bet that if this fuckhead's partner is a good cop he does not want to be his partner anymore.

Would you ?

T^T