quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


...because two current Obamacare threads just weren't enough

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

New topic point, new thread.

Consult with your reading tutor.

Btw, the thread-starting king crown is a tie between you and WD: the two of you start 1/2 the threads.

Literally half.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How incompetent are these people?

The GOP has the numbers in both the House and the Senate, they have one of theirs in the White House, they all campaigned putting this specific promise at the top of their agendas, they made at least 57 failed attempts to push it through the previous Congress and they are still unable to get the measure passed ... !!

Their antics are making the US Congress a laughing stock around the world. I mean they can't even get it right after 60 or so attempts! Who said that insanity was doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results?

Not only that but they can't even agree on the wording of a bill to repeal Obamacare after all the promises they made to repeal Obamacare ...! So not only can they not agree on what they agree on, they can't even agree on what they disagree on! D'uh!!!

Is there any other way they can conceivably fuck this up? If this doesn't equate the very definition of rank incompetence what on earth does?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

So they are in essence just mouth pieces spewing propaganda hate and bile in the form of rhetoric and utterly fuking incompetent - remind you of anyone?

As you know they had 7 years to replace, or fix, of fine tune or re-hone it all. And cometh the end of the day they had shag all.
Do you think we will ever here what lying Cunt Nutter Trump meant with we have so many things people even haven't heard of yet and other mad shit he went on about re ACA or failingobamacare as he liked to call it.

i have MSNBC on just now and cant stop piddling my pants from this interview thread NY Times Interview with the President

He is going to sack Mueller your news outlets are just coming to that conclusion - what about Sessions? We will count a resignation as a firing) - i will stick that in lucy thread later :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How incompetent are these people?

The GOP has the numbers in both the House and the Senate, they have one of theirs in the White House, they all campaigned putting this specific promise at the top of their agendas, they made at least 57 failed attempts to push it through the previous Congress and they are still unable to get the measure passed ... !!

Their antics are making the US Congress a laughing stock around the world. I mean they can't even get it right after 60 or so attempts! Who said that insanity was doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results?

Not only that but they can't even agree on the wording of a bill to repeal Obamacare after all the promises they made to repeal Obamacare ...! So not only can they not agree on what they agree on, they can't even agree on what they disagree on! D'uh!!!

Is there any other way they can conceivably fuck this up? If this doesn't equate the very definition of rank incompetence what on earth does?

They're in a real bind. They made such a clock about the ACA, using it as theater repeatedly throughout the Obama Administration, but didn't bother to design anything better, largely because (1) they didn't expect Trump to win either, (2) they never wanted health care for more Americans in the first place, and (3) now that people have it and see what it does, it's popularity has grown, with now more than half of Americans approving.

So they can't politically repeal it. Ryan has been trying to kill Medicaid for decades and privatize it, but that doesn't fly with most Americans either. And anything they do will have a price tag, including cutting provisions that then make the system less attractive from an economies of scale perspective (numbers insured, and so forth). And while they whine the ACA is causing problems in some markets, those markets also had insurers following poor practices in terms of coverage, and frankly, deserve to see their business model fail. Expanding Medicaid is one option -- but the GOP doesn't want to spend any money, in fact, is dying to cut what they can, because they really want another round of tax cuts. And that overall picture is contradictory in terms of positive policy.

Taking time to work out a good bill is OK on the face of it, but it doesn't have to take two years. What McConnell REALLY means "let's make this SOUND like we're working on something awesome and keeping our promise to the right wing of the party, but actually getting this mess out of the way until after the 2018 election. At that point, maybe he has more votes, or maybe he loses seats and can blame the stalled legislation on Democrats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

(3) now that people have it and see what it does, it's popularity has grown, with now more than half of Americans approving.

So they can't politically repeal it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

(3) now that people have it and see what it does, it's popularity has grown, with now more than half of Americans approving.

So they can't politically repeal it.

This reminded me of the political struggles over the introduction of Medicare here (a national, single payer, free at the point of use healthcare scheme in US parlance).

Medicare was first introduced by a Labor Govt which happened to lose office at the next election. The Tories promptly repealed Medicare and went back to a free market system. At the next election, Labor re-gained office and re-introduced Medicare. Since then, Medicare has been such a hit with the electorate that it is now regarded as untouchable.

One indicator of this new status was during the last election. The Labor Opposition was considered no chance of winning a majority, while most commentators have the Tories a shoo in to be returned. Labor ran an effective scare campaign alleging the Tories wanted to privatise Medicare and create a US style free market for healthcare. The Govt lost a swathe of seats and scraped over the line with a greatly reduced majority of 1 or 2 seats. Lesson: Medicare is loved by the public and privatise it at your peril.

The parallels to US seem pretty obvious to me. Isn't it an exquisite irony that Obamacare, so criticised by free marketeers on ideological grounds might survive because of its success in the marketplace! That's more or less what happened here too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

(3) now that people have it and see what it does, it's popularity has grown, with now more than half of Americans approving.

So they can't politically repeal it.

This reminded me of the political struggles over the introduction of Medicare here (a national, single payer, free at the point of use healthcare scheme in US parlance).

Medicare was first introduced by a Labor Govt which happened to lose office at the next election. The Tories promptly repealed Medicare and went back to a free market system. At the next election, Labor re-gained office and re-introduced Medicare. Since then, Medicare has been such a hit with the electorate that it is now regarded as untouchable.

One indicator of this new status was during the last election. The Labor Opposition was considered no chance of winning a majority, while most commentators have the Tories a shoo in to be returned. Labor ran an effective scare campaign alleging the Tories wanted to privatise Medicare and create a US style free market for healthcare. The Govt lost a swathe of seats and scraped over the line with a greatly reduced majority of 1 or 2 seats. Lesson: Medicare is loved by the public and privatise it at your peril.

The parallels to US seem pretty obvious to me. Isn't it an exquisite irony that Obamacare, so criticised by free marketeers on ideological grounds might survive because of its success in the marketplace! That's more or less what happened here too.

Before Obamacare, health care was headed for a real cliff, as businesses in many cases could no longer afford it (growing at double digit rates).

Including the government as a player and expanding the pool helped this -- not in a great way, but at least from going over a cliff, with many people losing their insurance (and facing $13,000+/year to buy it themselves).