RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called

RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 5:53:33 AM)
Yeah, some pages have turned, and aren't going to un-turn.

BoscoX -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 7:05:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'. Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'. By your illogic, the girl who was killed was as bad as any violent, hate-filled raging masked communist-anarchist there, and deserved to die "Because no one would march shoulder-to-shoulder with that kind unless they fully agreed with their radical hate and violence blah blah blah stupidity" You expect us to believe that the people there were all perfectly ideologically black and white, with absolutely no shades of grey or any color at all...

Nnanji -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 7:08:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'. Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'. By your illogic, the girl who was killed was as bad as any violent, hate-filled raging masked communist-anarchist there, and deserved to die "Because no one would march shoulder-to-shoulder with that kind unless they fully agreed with their radical hate and violence blah blah blah stupidity" The people there were all perfectly ideologically black and white, with absolutely no shades of grey or any color at all I was going to make a similar comment. But talking to tweak is like talking to a rock.

BoscoX -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 7:10:35 AM)
I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down

itsSIRtou -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 11:28:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none. ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings. ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period. u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are.

Nnanji -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 11:43:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none. ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings. ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period. u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are. Spanky, you bring so much pride to ignits. I'm sure your momma is proud of you.

WhoreMods -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 12:08:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none. ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings. ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period. u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are. Spanky, you bring so much pride to ignits. I'm sure your momma is proud of you. His mom certainly has a lot more to be proud of than yours does.

Nnanji -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 12:35:49 PM)
Lol...you're spanky's Boss Hoe now.

AtUrCervix -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 1:22:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery OK. It's totally a government thing. If the government would just let of it all, health care would be perfect, dirt cheap, available to all. we'd never get sick and we'll never die. Nowhere did I claim government was the sole reason for the high costs. I do think it's a huge reason for the high cost of care in the US. Employer -provided health insurance is a market response to government actions. Government opening itself up to be the payer is going to distort the market and government will cave to pressures and the spigot is going to open wide. I've said it before, if the US is going to have Universal Care, it's going to have to almost completely take over the sector; own the provider infrastructures, be the employer, etc. But, to do that, I wholeheartedly believe it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment authorizing it (and, I've also said before, I'd support an Amendment for that). IMO, there is zero chance care costs are ever going to drop in the US with bullshit little regulations. The Market will always find a work around. Government is going to have to go all-in, or get the fuck out almost completely. This middle of the road shit is only making things worse. quote: And . . . this is a white supremacist issue how again? Charlottesville was about health care? Thread Drift, MM. Thread drift. (What I love about Des is...he thinks things through...not everyone agrees with him {I generally do...but...I {nearly always} know where he came from....most times)...unfortunately...most just grab on to his comments with a predisposed position...and then...run off with their own rant...disregarding his thinking...inserting their own....as the most beneficial to their cause). I've never seen him be divisive...instructive...yeah...divisive...never. (And...like MM...I've never seen him be unfair....as to truth).

AtUrCervix -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 1:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And apparently that these were the good Nazis. Nazi's = Devil (we don't really disagree on that) Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing (we do disagree on that) From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'. Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'. But...he (Trump) was right...in reality... The bad guys showed up with guns. (The "good guys" showed up with bats). No one was "right". (There were just some who were "righter" than others). By the way...no right thinking...anyone...thinks the KKK was "right". But truth requires full consideration. (One of the things I learned in my divorce back in the stone ages of 1997 was...."There's three sides to every story: Yours....hers...and the truth").

AtUrCervix -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 1:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that. I couldn't either...their beliefs are anathema to mine but...there are some who would shoulder what they believe in. What man hasn't questioned....equal rights for men...(yet...they were absconded...rights of EVERY kind for a private place...of the same kind...everywhere men turn?). Why aren't there "men only" exercise places (there once were men's only clubs...however....equal rights laws turned them ALL over) and...yet...when they existed...they were without question obliterated by every women's rights groups....yet...no right thinking man would have *any* argument as to a women's "only" place to socialize, gather. Because men a) aren't going to fight this discussion and b) we also respect women. We "get it". Men are quietly (maybe even loudly) being obscured to a "second place". It isn't even being done privately. White men...all the more. Does that make me a racist? Not at all...it makes me a realist. There are no white colleges, yet there are dozens of black colleges. Recently...a black college found it objectionable that a group of students (white) showed up (on a tour),,,wearing MAGA hats. Indeed, they actually caused police to come in and deal with issues caused by 2 students wearing....MAGA hats. A HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! A FREAKING HAT!! Recently...a white HORSE in the news (not sure of the school) was deemed to be racially inflammatory. (A Horse). (I actually did say that...it was a horse. A horse that had been paraded on to the field for...ohhhh....the last 40 freaking years). A horse. A white horse. (A HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Things are getting a bit silly.

bounty44 -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 2:43:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix (And...like MM...I've never seen him be unfair....as to truth). im sorry---if you believe that, you are missing quite a bit.

DesideriScuri -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 3:18:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And apparently that these were the good Nazis. Nazi's = Devil (we don't really disagree on that) Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing (we do disagree on that) Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing on the same level as the nazi's, klan, ect. (we do disagree on that.) starting with mass beatings and work ur way up to murders and lynching's.... I'm good, thanks. But, completely dismissing bigotry, hate, and violence from one side simply because they oppose the neo-nazi/white supremacist side is completely wrong.

DesideriScuri -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 3:24:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'. And, that's where you're missing the point (you're not alone in this). Trump didn't allocate equal blame for anything on anyone. He said both sides were to blame for the hate, bigotry, and violence. You're assuming it's equal. MM is assuming he's equating the counter-protesters beliefs as being as horrible and despicable as the neo-nazi's beliefs. Neither one of you is correct in that. Both sides were guilty of hate and violence. The hate and violence should have no place in America (which is another thing he said). How can you disagree with either of those two things? Granted, the second is a belief and not, technically, up for consideration of how factual it is or not. But, both sides bear responsibility for the violence that occurred that day. And, that's what Trump said.

DesideriScuri -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 3:26:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that. Neither could I, PFH, unless it was a reenactment, or something of that nature. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to not have any bad feelings deep down about it.

tamaka -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 5:42:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that. Neither could I, PFH, unless it was a reenactment, or something of that nature. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to not have any bad feelings deep down about it. And that's why the Nazi's were summoned. To silence everyone else who might disagree with removing the statues.

BoscoX -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 6:05:08 PM)
From rather a left wing source: ‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis [image]http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/64/55/66/13819281/3/920x920.jpg[/image] Fighting Nazis is a good thing, but fighting Nazis doesn’t necessarily make you or your cause good. By my lights this is simply an obvious fact. The greatest Nazi-killer of the 20th century was Josef Stalin. He also killed millions of his own people and terrorized, oppressed, enslaved or brutalized tens of millions more. The fact that he killed Nazis during World War II (out of self-preservation, not principle) doesn’t dilute his evil one bit. This should settle the issue as far as I’m concerned. Nazism was evil. Soviet communism was evil. It’s fine to believe that Nazism was more evil than communism. That doesn’t make communism good. Alas, it doesn’t settle the issue. Confusion on this point poisoned politics in America and abroad for generations. Part of the problem is psychological. There’s a natural tendency to think that when people, or movements, hate each other, it must be because they’re opposites. This assumption overlooks the fact that many — indeed, most — of the great conflicts and hatreds in human history are derived from what Sigmund Freud called the “narcissism of minor differences.” Most tribal hatreds are between very similar groups. The European wars of religion were between peoples who often shared the same language and culture but differed on the correct way to practice the Christian faith. The Sunni-Shia split in the Muslim world is the source of great animosity between very similar peoples. The young communists and fascists fighting for power in the streets of 1920s Germany had far more in common with each other than they had with decent liberals or conservatives, as we understand those terms today. That’s always true of violent radicals and would-be totalitarians. The second part of the problem wasn’t innocent confusion, but sinister propaganda. As Hitler solidified power and effectively outlawed the Communist Party of Germany, The Communist International (Comintern) abandoned its position that socialist and progressive groups that were disloyal to Moscow were “fascist” and instead encouraged communists everywhere to build “popular fronts” against the common enemy of Nazism. These alliances of convenience with social democrats and other progressives were a great propaganda victory for communists around the world because they bolstered the myth that communists were just members of the left coalition in the fight against Hitler, bigotry, fascism, etc. More

Nnanji -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 6:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that. I couldn't either...their beliefs are anathema to mine but...there are some who would shoulder what they believe in. What man hasn't questioned....equal rights for men...(yet...they were absconded...rights of EVERY kind for a private place...of the same kind...everywhere men turn?). Why aren't there "men only" exercise places (there once were men's only clubs...however....equal rights laws turned them ALL over) and...yet...when they existed...they were without question obliterated by every women's rights groups....yet...no right thinking man would have *any* argument as to a women's "only" place to socialize, gather. Because men a) aren't going to fight this discussion and b) we also respect women. We "get it". Men are quietly (maybe even loudly) being obscured to a "second place". It isn't even being done privately. White men...all the more. Does that make me a racist? Not at all...it makes me a realist. There are no white colleges, yet there are dozens of black colleges. Recently...a black college found it objectionable that a group of students (white) showed up (on a tour),,,wearing MAGA hats. Indeed, they actually caused police to come in and deal with issues caused by 2 students wearing....MAGA hats. A HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! A FREAKING HAT!! Recently...a white HORSE in the news (not sure of the school) was deemed to be racially inflammatory. (A Horse). (I actually did say that...it was a horse. A horse that had been paraded on to the field for...ohhhh....the last 40 freaking years). A horse. A white horse. (A HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Things are getting a bit silly. USC has a guy dressed like a Trojan ride on field at football games. The name of the Horse is Traveler. Robert E. Lee once had a horse named Traveler. So the whole USC horse thing is racist. I understand the Trojan horse and Lee horse names were spelled differently. I'm not going to look up different horse name spellings.

Nnanji -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 6:39:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX From rather a left wing source: ‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis Fighting Nazis is a good thing, but fighting Nazis doesn’t necessarily make you or your cause good. More Bosco, the Chronicle is very liberal left wing. The Author, however, is mainstream right wing.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of emergency called (8/27/2017 8:37:23 PM)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL

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