A question!

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Satyr6406 -> A question! (7/28/2006 1:55:52 AM)
Here I go, doing what I do best (stirring the pot). Someday, I will have to take the time to figure out how to post a poll. Submission; a "gift"? I'll answer my own question first: "gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [<ON.]" ... the American Heritage Dictionary We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift" (Heck, some want us to grovel for it! [good luck!]). Now, this is not to say that submission (depending upon the submissive who bestows it) is not a treasured item and it doesn't mean that it isn't given freely but, since they expect something, in return, it canNOT be a "gift". Just my humble opinion

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 2:04:24 AM)
First I will point out the irony in labeling a subject with something as completely uninformative as "A question" and then punctuating it with an exclamation point. But, to the topic at hand... Reposted: You know, this is just the "uber romantic ideal that will not die." I give up on trying to explain that because no matter what the hell you call it, if you want a relationship to work in the long term, you've gotta put the same work into it that every other person has to put into it, the same energy, the same skills. So call it a gift till you get a coronary for all I care- just understand how people will perceive that and your little "gift" isn't going to insulate you from anything that a normal vanilla person has to deal with. http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_submission%252Cgift/tm.htm#418195 Submission is a gift!!!!??? http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542 If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance? http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872 The Gift you give to yourself http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087 A gift??? http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582 The Domly Gift http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667 Why do so many view submission as a gift? http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811 Do you consider your submission to someone a gift? http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674 Gift or not... http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097 The "gift" of submission http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446 On the gift of submission http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487 my thoughts on the "gift" of submission

MistressMaamNH -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 2:41:38 AM)
quote: "gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [ We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift" Definitions are ordered, beginning from most common usage on down. That does not mean that only the first definition has validity. I think that it can be agreed upon that the Lifestyle is not generally seen as mainstream, or the most "common usage." Okay, so the first one doesn't work for you...take a moment and read the second one. "The act, right or power of giving" Can a person "gift" (perform the act; have the right to give; have the power to give) you their submission/control? I think the answer to that is a resounding "Yes" Now for the third definition: "Talent or aptitude" Can service and serving be one of a person's talents, or special aptitudes? Absolutely. If you've ever had more than one person submit to you, you know very well that each individual has their own unique talents or attributes that they posess, that make them different in service from the next individual. MMNH

cuddleheart50 -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 3:20:41 AM)
In my opinion, submission is not a gift.

puella -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 3:30:04 AM)
Hello, Satyr6406, I suppose I will take a stab at this. This is why 'submission' s not a gift, in my opinion. Firstly, I do not really use the word that way. I do not hand over 'my submission' in a brightly wrapped package. I am submissive. It is a part of what makes me the person I am. It is also not all of what makes me the person I am. So the word submissive, and all the other workings of that word, just describe a part of me, not something I do or something I play at, really. So in describing myself would I say that my submission, that part of me that is submissive by nature is some sort of 'gift', like my artistic talents or some sort of psychic ability?...No. My reasoning for that part of my answer is that that interpretation of a gift, means something very different to me than something that is completely natural and not honed or improved. I have a natural talent or gift in my singing voice.... I also had to bust my butt to hone it into an art form... the actual voice itself and all that goes with it. I do not hone that ambiguous part of my personality that is submissive, nor do I really need to, it just kicks in all on its own, and it is not something I really have a choice (in many ways) to utilize or not... it is ingrained in everything that I do, to one capacity or another...it's just a part of me, again. Lastly, I do not give anyone my submission, as if it were this very distinct and separate 'thing' which I consciously lay as an offering before someone; a gift. Though, as I have explained above, I am submissive by nature, the totality of being in or under submission to someone (though I really do not term it that way) is a multifaceted situation, none of which I would consider some sort of present to either myself or anyone else. The state of submission requires a lot of give and take between two people. It is a state of being which is brought about equally by the two people who create it, as ne can not be in submission all by themself, no matter how naturally submissive they are. To me that word is very much linked to a M/s relationship, not the submissiveness that is inherent in one of the parties in that relationship. I takes a lot from both partners, not just the submissive, as it is the (for me) Man who brings out such a profoundity of my own submissive nature to bring me to a point of total surrender to him, or submission..... Who is that a gift for, him? or me? I always felt like I was the one who was lucky for, and had been given an immeasurable gift by where he brought me in my submission, not the other way around. But that's just my perspective.

foxglove716 -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 4:58:03 AM)
I know its just semantics, but I dont liken my submission to something that can be returned for store credit at Macy's.

impishlilhellcat -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 5:07:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: foxglove716 I know its just semantics, but I dont liken my submission to something that can be returned for store credit at Macy's. This is golden and I love the way you phrased it!

lunamor -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 5:14:01 AM)
LuckyAlbatross, I just wanted to say I appreciate the list of Forum links you often provide. Thanks! Lunamor

cheshireboy -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 5:33:07 AM)
submission is a state of mind, most like insanity, often misunderstood but neverless quiet enjoyable to those that have the taste for it, hardly a gift but a good way to spend the afternoon. cheshire

SexyRed -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 5:38:54 AM)
It is not a gift, I hate that term. Like someone else said, how can you equate an intrinsic feeling and an exchange of energy with a gift? Labeling it so seems very pretentious to me.

Arpig -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 7:14:35 AM)
Submission is indeed a gift....but it is not the dominant who has recieved the gift.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 7:20:27 AM)
God dammit!! Not another "submission = gift" bullshit thread. No, it's not a gift. It's a part of ones personality. Calling it a gift is just romantic bullshit used to cover the harsh reality of it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 9:59:54 AM)
quote]ORIGINAL: lunamor LuckyAlbatross, I just wanted to say I appreciate the list of Forum links you often provide. Thanks! Lunamor [/quote] My pleasure, Lunamor. I am glad you find them useful.

puella -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 12:26:47 PM)
.... and of course, there is always the option of not reading and responding to any threads you are not interested in....

scottjk -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 12:41:30 PM)
Okay, I'm just dumbfounded. Maybe it's all that time I spent in IRC. In IRC, there was often a lot of talk about how submission was a gift, and, frankly, the Doms that took exception to that were often pummeled for it. Honestly, subs, just based on this initial start, you've fully restored my faith in the concept of 'intelligent sub'. I've often kept my mouth closed regarding this topic, simply because of the inherent paradox of it. I know what submission is, I know that I savor it from a sub, and I also know the level of trust it implies, but I've often found that I felt rankled that such a thing was considered a gift, as if it was something that could be bartered, or worse something that could be given or taken at a whim. I'm still not sure what to think about it, but I do know that submission 'just is'. Just as my feelings of dominance 'just is'. It's a property, a characteristic, a victory yet no one has been defeated. Maybe I'm just not expressing it right, but I hope some one get's what I'm thinking...

SaphireLynn -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 12:43:17 PM)
every submissive decides who they give thier submission to so it is a precious gift that is given to another. It is the gift of themselves. Of thier loyalty.

Estring -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 2:26:13 PM)
Many subs say their submission is a gift because that puts them in control right from the start. You better feel that you are one lucky Dom to even be considered in receiving her "gift".

FlaProbe -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 2:37:56 PM)
Agreed! Along with the fact that they are not a "doormat"!

FlaProbe -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 2:43:16 PM)
Just ones and zeros

CreativeDominant -> RE: A question! (7/28/2006 6:12:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 Here I go, doing what I do best (stirring the pot). Someday, I will have to take the time to figure out how to post a poll. Submission; a "gift"? I'll answer my own question first: "gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [<ON.]" ... the American Heritage Dictionary We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift" (Heck, some want us to grovel for it! [good luck!]). Now, this is not to say that submission (depending upon the submissive who bestows it) is not a treasured item and it doesn't mean that it isn't given freely but, since they expect something, in return, it canNOT be a "gift". Just my humble opinion I agree. If submission is indeed part of who you are...and who you are wants to be with me...then you are not giving me anything other than the "you" so often mentioned in romantic novels. But there again, you as the person you are now has the gift of "me". If something within me makes your submission respond, then that is a response of your inner self to something within me. It is a response of your inner submissive self to my inner dominant self which often leads to outward expressions of submission and dominance on a more personal level...not a gift. This is why I have a problem with those who say that their submission must be earned. If that inner submissive doesn't respond naturally to me and who I am but instead has to be shown through some sort of ill-defined work on my part, then where is the "yielding of control...of self" to another based on what is inside them and what they show as concrete evidence of this inner self? Now, before someone flames me to a slow-roasting death, let me state the following: I "get" the whole idea of courtship and no, I am not some lazy ass who thinks that any submissive woman will, just by meeting me or hearing my voice-to-die-for or seeing my brutally handsome face, immediately fall on her knees (sighs...though they should...[:)]) without knowing thing one about me. But I will not "earn" submission that must be made to show, can only show, through some ... in many of these cases...ill-stated dominant acts on my part.

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