Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to local police.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to local police. Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to local... - 8/31/2017 12:49:11 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
The Trump administration will unveil a new plan Monday to roll back limits on a controversial program that provides local law enforcement agencies with surplus military gear, marking the end of a policy implemented during the Obama administration.

Congressman William Lacy Clay has responded to the new executive order to be signed by Trump that rescinds President Obama’s directive.

His full statement reads as follows:

“Three years ago, as the tragedy in Ferguson unfolded, I personally witnessed local police in armored vehicles pointing military-style sniper rifles with night scopes at my constituents who were peacefully exercising their constitutional rights.

That over-militarization increased tensions, incited more violence and established a deadly perception that local police officers had become warriors instead of guardians of public safety.

In response, I worked closely with former President Obama and former U.S. Secretary of Defense Hagel to place reasonable limits on the distribution of military surplus items to local law enforcement. That was in keeping with key findings and recommendations of the President’s Taskforce on 21st Century Policing.

President Trump’s decision to rescind these limitations will allow local police departments to receive grenade launchers, bayonets, tracked armored vehicles, sniper rifles and military grade ammunition; along with other surplus Department of Defense equipment that was intended for use on the battlefield, not in neighborhoods.

President Trump’s reckless decision to remilitarize local police is another shameful step backwards as he continues to deepen divisions across this country while appeasing hate, bigotry and intolerance.”
source

From what I’ve read elsewhere, these will be some heavy duty weapons that are no longer needed on the battle field. I also understand that the procurement process will bypass city Council and go directly to me Defense Department and the city police.

You of a conspiracy mind may care to stop and consider whether it is a good idea to have a well-equipped standing military conducting the public safety business of towns and cities.

From the New York Times story on this issue

NEENAH, Wis. — Inside the municipal garage of this small lakefront city, parked next to the hefty orange snowplow, sits an even larger truck, this one painted in desert khaki. Weighing 30 tons and built to withstand land mines, the armored combat vehicle is one of hundreds showing up across the country, in police departments big and small.

The 9-foot-tall armored truck was intended for an overseas battlefield. But as President Obama ushers in the end of what he called America’s “long season of war,” the former tools of combat — M-16 rifles, grenade launchers, silencers and more — are ending up in local police departments, often with little public notice.

During the Obama administration, according to Pentagon data, police departments have received tens of thousands of machine guns; nearly 200,000 ammunition magazines; thousands of pieces of camouflage and night-vision equipment; and hundreds of silencers, armored cars and aircraft.

The equipment has been added to the armories of police departments that already look and act like military units. Police SWAT teams are now deployed tens of thousands of times each year, increasingly for routine jobs. Masked, heavily armed police officers in Louisiana raided a nightclub in 2006 as part of a liquor inspection. In Florida in 2010, officers in SWAT gear and with guns drawn carried out raids on barbershops that mostly led only to charges of “barbering without a license.”

When the military’s mine-resistant trucks began arriving in large numbers last year, Neenah and places like it were plunged into the middle of a debate over whether the post-9/11 era had obscured the lines between soldier and police officer.


I find this kind of scary and maybe a threat to the continued establishment of the Republic. Maybe you can give me a a different point of view.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 1:35:19 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
It was only a controversial program to liberals. That surplus equipment was paid for by taxpayers and was being put to good use by law enforcement agencies.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 2
[Awaiting Approval]
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
[Awaiting Approval]
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 1:42:03 PM   
StWrinklemeat


Posts: 118
Joined: 8/11/2015
Status: offline
The Golden Awe is a visionary. I do believe he armed up the mentally imbalanced first via a memo. Ahead of his time you know.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 2:06:31 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
FR
The instruments of coercion must be supplied with the most intimidating and destructive equipment to allow them to subjugate an increasingly restive populace. Tyranny 101

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to StWrinklemeat)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 3:37:31 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 3:53:02 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
the article I posted in the "doj---constitution" thread, written by judge Napolitano, talks about this from a constitutionality perspective.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 3:57:27 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
After WWII; any citizen could bid on lots of military surplus being auctioned off.
Today, who can bid on what is severely restricted. Only approved bidders can bid on armor, weapons, vehicles.

And, there was a post 9/11 policy of providing upgraded weapons and even armored personnel carriers and body armor to local police jurisdictions that jumped through the right hoops to apply.

Controversial... a bit. A few things I have personal opinions on the subject.
Law enforcement is different from combat military. I question the trend for almost two decades of progressively militarizing police forces. Does the local sheriff enhance his mission by obtaining an armored personnel carrier? The selling APCs cheap to nuclear power plants kind of makes sense. Giving one to a small town police department doesn't compute for me.

I think the surplus auctions should be open to all citizens. I'd love to bid on one of the surplus diesel scout bikes the USMC was using over in the sandbox. Can cops use surplus body armor, sure can. But, why can't civilians bid on and purchase as well?

For over a century you could purchase your service weapon when mustering out. Why are surplus weapons given to what became Isis insurgents and they are destroyed rather than allow them into the hands of citizens? The history of "sporterizing" military weapons for sale on the civilian market has a long history. (To "sporterize" an M16 or M4 you pull the auto sear and selector switch then tack weld in a pin so you can't drop a new auto sear into it. It is harder to make a weapon full auto that has been sporterized than it is to make an AR-15 selective fire. I haven't done this but my gunsmith buddy on the technical details. I know personally how to sporterize an M-14)

Police departments should be able to buy surplus military equipment. There are a lot of things used by the military directly applicable to law enforcement and emergency responders. I also think it should be an auction on the cheap and not a straight giveaway. Anyone with the funds should be able to bid.

On government auctions... back in the day I went to one and, on a whim, bid one dollar on every lot available that day (obligated for $56 if I has won everything_ I did win one lot.. a Vietnam War suplus jeep with "drop damage". Drop damage as in the cargo chute didn't open when they were practicing logistics drops. It cost $80 for us to get a wrecker to haul it back to base. Our LPO let us park it just outside one of the warehouse doors. After six weeks of taking it apart during off hours; we cleared from parts sales and scrap metal sales about $5000. My cut was the down payment on my first brand new street bike.

For info on current requirements for GSA auctions you can go to
https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/

I can find no information on the net about DoD surplus auctions; which is one of my bitches about the surplus auctions. The only people that get to bid are those invited to bid.

Other government sales information can be found at
https://www.usa.gov/auctions-and-sales

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 6:50:58 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

This past week, the DOJ also announced it will be offering to local police vast amounts of surplus military equipment -- much of it new, fearful and lethal -- from body armor to listening devices to battle tanks.

If police begin to look like soldiers and carry soldiers' gear in soldiers' vehicles, will they begin to think like soldiers, whose goal is not to win hearts and minds and keep streets safe but to destroy the lives and property of the enemy in wartime?

Moreover, the strings attached to this federal hardware giveaway do not require congressional or even local government approval. They require only acceptance by the police and regular local use of the military equipment. Local police should not have this discretion and should not be subjected to this temptation.


https://townhall.com/columnists/judgeandrewnapolitano/2017/08/31/dangers-are-coming-to-the-rule-of-law-n2375083

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 9:30:16 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
If I may point out a simple fact....

In the large urban metro areas, often times the local gangs have the cops out gunned, way the fuck out gunned.

So, in my opinion, an armored vehicle makes sense, and in the case of one bank robbery in LA some years ago, the cops needed fucking cannons, the perps were using automatics with armor piercing rounds.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 9:49:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
To me it is not the equipment that is at fault but how and when it is used. Lets face it there are times when an armored vehicle is needed to protect the police, firemen, emergency personnel, innocent citizens and property. Sniper rifles ...vests... etc also have their uses. Uses that only military style equipment can fill.

If those weapons were properly used in the Ferguson affair there would have been much less property damage. They should not be used however to disperse legal protests... or even illegal if peaceful protests... this was not the case in Ferguson.

I have no sympathy for looters and rioters...I could not care less if their sensibilities were bruised by the use of military equipment.

The real problem in Ferguson was not the appearance of military equipment but their lack of use.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 8/31/2017 11:12:59 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
Hey, you never know. They may run into a disturbed, 100 lb., knife-wielding, woman. Never hurts to be armed as heavily as possible.

Like I am and have been trying to tell you kinkroids, this is clearly the next step and a very important step to the future police state that is coming to America.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 8:46:09 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Mr Rodgers the asshole protesters in Ferguson were using Molotov cocktails... police were shot...buildings set on fire...people beaten.. businesses looted. This was not a peaceful protest where poor old ladies with signs were assaulted by police storm troopers. The police made the mistake of not aggressively asserting control with every tool they had at the beginning of the riots...and look what happened.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 9:34:42 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mr Rodgers the asshole protesters in Ferguson were using Molotov cocktails... police were shot...buildings set on fire...people beaten.. businesses looted. This was not a peaceful protest where poor old ladies with signs were assaulted by police storm troopers. The police made the mistake of not aggressively asserting control with every tool they had at the beginning of the riots...and look what happened.

Butch

Rest assured that this is to support you, not in any way to attack you.
Also there is gross misrepresentation of the equipment the police get.
Better vests endanger civilians, how?
Flshbangs endanger civilians, how?
Even apc's reduce the need to use firepower so they make civilians safer.
Now if the police were getting A-1 Abrams they would have an argument.
If the police were getting A-10s they would have an argument.
If they were getting flame throwers (which the military hasn't used for 40 years) they would
have an argument.
BTY I don't think it was the 100 pound woman so much as the 9 inch knife.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/1/2017 9:35:00 AM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 9:39:15 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
Give a man a toy, and he will find excuses to use it

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 10:20:14 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

Sounds right. Most of the European paramilitary police auxiliaries are seconded from their army and work under military discipline and standards, so if you want to have an equivalent of the gendarmes or the cabinieri there, treating them the same way makes sense.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 10:37:58 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

Sounds right. Most of the European paramilitary police auxiliaries are seconded from their army and work under military discipline and standards, so if you want to have an equivalent of the gendarmes or the cabinieri there, treating them the same way makes sense.

You do know that being military and havening leftover military equipment are not the same thing don't you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 10:45:48 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

Sounds right. Most of the European paramilitary police auxiliaries are seconded from their army and work under military discipline and standards, so if you want to have an equivalent of the gendarmes or the cabinieri there, treating them the same way makes sense.

You do know that being military and havening leftover military equipment are not the same thing don't you?

Yes. This is why military sorts are a bit more trustworthy with the hardware than coppers, and why, when you want a paramilitary auxiliary to the police, you second it from the armed forces instead of giving the military machinery to coppers.
Is this really a difficult point?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 11:03:28 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

Sounds right. Most of the European paramilitary police auxiliaries are seconded from their army and work under military discipline and standards, so if you want to have an equivalent of the gendarmes or the cabinieri there, treating them the same way makes sense.

You do know that being military and havening leftover military equipment are not the same thing don't you?

Yes. This is why military sorts are a bit more trustworthy with the hardware than coppers, and why, when you want a paramilitary auxiliary to the police, you second it from the armed forces instead of giving the military machinery to coppers.
Is this really a difficult point?

Flashbangs and better vest don't make you paramilitary. It is the mission, not the equipment.
You should know that creating a paramilitary is treading on thin ice legally.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to l... - 9/1/2017 11:27:08 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If our police want to use military equipment, I have no problem with THIS caveat.



DISSOLVE the 'thin blue line'
Hold the cops to the same standard as the military.
They want to act like "the big boys" FINE Hold them to the same standard.

Make them accountable at a higher standard than civilians.
Fuck up, go to Leavenworth
Watch a coworker fuck up and hide it, it's like you committed the same crime. GO TO LEAVENWORTH

Make the cops sign a civilian version of the UCMJ,

I'll support giving them big boy's toys then.

Sounds right. Most of the European paramilitary police auxiliaries are seconded from their army and work under military discipline and standards, so if you want to have an equivalent of the gendarmes or the cabinieri there, treating them the same way makes sense.

You do know that being military and havening leftover military equipment are not the same thing don't you?

Yes. This is why military sorts are a bit more trustworthy with the hardware than coppers, and why, when you want a paramilitary auxiliary to the police, you second it from the armed forces instead of giving the military machinery to coppers.
Is this really a difficult point?

Flashbangs and better vest don't make you paramilitary. It is the mission, not the equipment.
You should know that creating a paramilitary is treading on thin ice legally.

Whereas two tooled up policemen shooting a mentally ill woman in the back because she happened to have a kitchen knife isn't?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Pres. Trump to resume sending military weapons to local police. Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109