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North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 9:25:14 AM

StWrinklemeat

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North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb, and, a mere week after they launched a missile that overflew Japan, after they threatened Guam, before it broke up into 3 pieces (I think that means it simply fell from the sky). I must say this President Nutter fellow is an awesome negotiator: in the same week he announced he is considering withdrawing from the South Korea Free trade agreement.

The Most Powerful Nuclear Blasts Ever
Those should scare everyone

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 9:33:22 AM

WhoreMods

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A hydrogen bomb, eh?
I wonder if that counts as retro these days...

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 9:46:27 AM

heavyblinker

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I can't say it gives me warm feelings to know North Korea has a hydrogen bomb, but on the other hand I have no idea what they would gain from using it.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 9:48:25 AM

StWrinklemeat

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Retro

China continues to supply them with components, and advanced components, for their current and next generation batch of carnage, and of course fissionable material. And (China) continues to money launder for NK. This is all for the sake of a buffer zone against the Great Satan.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 9:50:19 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I can't say it gives me warm feelings to know North Korea has a hydrogen bomb, but on the other hand I have no idea what they would gain from using it.

Wouldn't you nuke South Korea if it stopped Psy from putting more novelty songs all over Youtube?

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 10:38:24 AM

vincentML

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North Korea apparently has successfully tested a hydrogen bomb, which of course is many times more powerful and destructive then the nuclear weapons that the United States used over Japan in 1945. The fusion bomb is designed to be mounted on an intercontinental ballistic missile. The North Korean leader Kim Jong Un was satisfied with the results of the test. Now, what is the purpose of developing this advanced nuclear arsenal?

I heard one congressional member speculate that the long game was to gain leverage against United States in order to force the removal of American troops from South Korea, leaving the South to be absorbed by the North. Now I don’t know if that’s true but it makes a lot more sense than believing Kim would want to attack the United States.

The South Korean president, facing an existential threat to his country, is hoping for a diplomatic solution. However Pres. Trump has criticized the South Korean hope as appeasement. The time for talking is past according to Pres. Trump.

Russia and China have warned the United States against any preemptive strike on North Korea. And then there is Japan, currently our ally, who is also vulnerable to any attack from North Korea as was shown by the recent flyover of a North Korean missile.

Mr. Trump and his generals will be meeting this afternoon, Sunday, 3 September, 2017 to work out a response to Kim’s new toy. Is military action the way to go?

Or, maybe a total embargo should be considered. The United States is threatening to cease all commercial relationships with any country that is dealing or supporting North Korea. That’s obviously aimed at China, who has been providing materials and technical assistance to North Korea. A total embargo is without a doubt an act of war even though no American missiles have flown.

Embargo! What would be the international ramifications? What would be the domestic ramifications?

So here’s the dilemma: we could drop a few nuclear bombs on North Korea and wipe it out. Before impact they might be able to respond by destroying the South Korean capital and the 10 million people live in the area. On the other hand an embargo would roil the international trade community and probably send stockmarkets plummeting, maybe costing many people jobs as well. So think about it and come on up with a solution.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 1:10:48 PM

StWrinklemeat

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I see that too.
But what do you think they should do?
I am still thinking this one over - and yes they would get a huge volley off to the South. But why do they matter as large swathes of Africa are deemed not news worthy.

China are in-fact the biggest culprits in all of this.

But in two weeks that is a launch over Japan. Do you think USA, Russia and perhaps China would stand for that?

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/3/2017 2:41:40 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StWrinklemeat

I see that too.
But what do you think they should do?
I am still thinking this one over - and yes they would get a huge volley off to the South. But why do they matter as large swathes of Africa are deemed not news worthy.

China are in-fact the biggest culprits in all of this.

But in two weeks that is a launch over Japan. Do you think USA, Russia and perhaps China would stand for that?

We have 50,000 military personnel in the South and maybe another 50,000 civilians. But I think the greater concerns are Japan and Guam as outposts for fortress America against China and Russia in the Pacific. The analogy to lands in Africa just doesn’t play right in my mind. The North will continue to push grabbing every inch they can until it is slapped down. But slapping it down has its potentially disastrous consequences. So it is an interesting dilemma. You can bet however this will continue. Kim Jong will continue.

I think Russia and China will stand for anything that makes the United States uncomfortable and I hate to say this but I am especially suspicious of president Trumps previous relationships with Russia, and what kind of stew is he in there?

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to StWrinklemeat)

Post #: 8

RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 5:01:43 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Or, maybe a total embargo should be considered. The United States is threatening to cease all commercial relationships with any country that is dealing or supporting North Korea. That’s obviously aimed at China, who has been providing materials and technical assistance to North Korea. A total embargo is without a doubt an act of war even though no American missiles have flown.

Embargo! What would be the international ramifications? What would be the domestic ramifications?

So here’s the dilemma: we could drop a few nuclear bombs on North Korea and wipe it out. Before impact they might be able to respond by destroying the South Korean capital and the 10 million people live in the area. On the other hand an embargo would roil the international trade community and probably send stockmarkets plummeting, maybe costing many people jobs as well. So think about it and come on up with a solution.

North Korea is already subject to onerous international economic sanctions. The only likely-to-be-effective sanction left is for China to cut its oil pipleline, which would deprive NK of much needed oil to generate electricity. The Chinese have resisted this to date, as they wished to keep one card up their sleeve to maintain continued influence over Kim. This latest test might have pushed things over the brink as far as the Chinese are concerned, and they may be prepared to cut the pipeline.

This would surely be effective in the long run, but it also runs the risk that a desperate NK leadership, fighting to stave off collapse of its economy and the threat that would pose to regime survival, might decide that war is a better option. Who knows how the NKs would react if their backs were really up against the wall?

The only factor I can see that offers some cause for optimism is this: For over half a century, the NKs have been perfecting the arts of brinkmanship and provocation, which they use as bargaining chips in negotiations. They haven't ever taken the final step. War has been avoided on the Korean Peninsula since the Armistice in the 1950s. And no side has anything to gain from war, especially the NKs who would see their country devastated and regime change. None of the current leadership would survive a war, or its aftermath.* War is not a survival option for NK. It is the last throw of the dice.

One would think that a genuine statesperson (if there is one around) could parlay this last point into the basis for meaningful negotiations. I wish that there was someone on the international horizon who might act in this capacity but I am afraid that it is difficult to nominate any one ... any ideas people???

* Answering charges of crimes against humanity at The Hague might be the best possible outcome for Kim and his cronies - at least they would still be alive ...

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 10:27:58 AM

StWrinklemeat

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Countries that trade with North Korea
According to figures from KOTRA (Korea's Trade Investment Promotion Agency) there were around 80 countries that traded with Pyongyang in 2016 including:
China China is 90%
Russia
India
Pakistan
Singapore
Germany
Portugal
France
Thailand
Philippines

North Korea's total trade with all of the countries on the list last year was worth US$6.5bn. That figure has been growing by about 5% a year. Granted, the amount of trade for some of these countries is small and decreasing. But there are some fascinating insights.

Singapore - which is number 8 on the list of largest traders with North Korea - saw trade with Pyongyang fall by 90% in 2016.
Meanwhile the Philippines - saw a massive 171% jump in trade with North Korea.

Both are economic partners of the US.

In fact, many of the countries on this list are trading partners with the US and most are doing far more business with the US than they do with the tiny North Korean economy.

So the answer is do nothing?
He is going to arm up anyway. So worry about it 10 years down the road, or 20 or 50 years?
What if he sells, or gives a bomb, or dirty material, away to terrorists organizations.
His first bomb will be pointed at Yellowstone Caldera

No country in the world other than America has the capacity to carry out a devastating Surgical strike and granted it would have limited success in trying to take out everything that matters on the first strike. And if they did do you think China or Russia would respond.

Saddam was nuts enough to Invade Kuwait and gas 800 000 odd Kurds.
Who do you think is saner Saddam or Kim?

Cutting oil would that work tweaks I am not sure their country is in essence poverty as it is, and many, even now, are starving and reduced to eating grass and the likes.

Saddam invoked the scorch earth policy with the oil wells.

So the question everyone should be asking would Kim – I think he would and that would be just for shutting of the oil.

Perhaps they could take out Kim Jong il and I don’t mean for a nice meal.

So I am thinking that’s the only viable action that would not result in a regional, or world, apocalypse .

(in reply to vincentML)

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 10:30:01 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StWrinklemeat

Perhaps they could take out Kim Jong il and I don’t mean for a nice meal.

You think he'd still be around if they could?

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 10:33:06 AM

StWrinklemeat

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Crossed my mind so why cant they get him?
And blame it on a starving pauper of wretch.

Come to think of it I have never seen him meet the "people"

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Post #: 12

RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 12:13:49 PM

vincentML

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quote:

The only factor I can see that offers some cause for optimism is this: For over half a century, the NKs have been perfecting the arts of brinkmanship and provocation, which they use as bargaining chips in negotiations. They haven't ever taken the final step. War has been avoided on the Korean Peninsula since the Armistice in the 1950s. And no side has anything to gain from war, especially the NKs who would see their country devastated and regime change. None of the current leadership would survive a war, or its aftermath.* War is not a survival option for NK. It is the last throw of the dice.

Maybe Kim Jong truly believes that the Chinese will never permit the Americans to attack him without a counterattack. The Chinese and the Russians have pretty much warned the United States against the preemptive attack.

It may be on the other hand be that Kim Jong is so isolated that he thinks he is invulnerable against American attack because of the leverage he has with the capital of South Korea so close and so easily demolished.

There have been negotiations in the past in which the Kim family has played free and lose with their promises. This history may be another source of encouragement for Kim Jong.

There is another possibility. It is that Kim Jong believes the West does not have the courage to engage in nuclear war.

This is really a sticky situation, no doubt. I don’t see where further negotiations are going to be productive. What do we have to offer them to get them to back off their nuclear program? Not much I don’t think. On the other hand the thought of war is abhorrent.

Then there is the question of what will Trump do. I would like to think that he has more sense than to start hurling nuclear weapons. Hopefully he is not as unstable as many people think he is. Having general Mattis at his side is rather reassuring at this time.

Finally, I think the ball is in our court. I don’t think we can allow the North Koreans to proceed at their own will. They will only be encouraged if we do not take some form of material action. It may come down to that we will have to embargo goods from China. They are said to be extremely discouraged and agitated about the North Korean actions but they have their own reasons for not acting. Maybe we need to put economic pressures on China. Frankly, I don’t know what the outcome or cost of that would be to us.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 12:24:47 PM

vincentML

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quote:

No country in the world other than America has the capacity to carry out a devastating Surgical strike and granted it would have limited success in trying to take out everything that matters on the first strike. And if they did do you think China or Russia would respond.

I wonder how much of that surgical capacity is just propaganda. I wouldn’t bet on it, I really would not. I would put that back up on the shelf next to “shock and awe” and other military bullshit. I don’t know, China might feel obliged to strike back proportionately, say at South Korea. But I don’t see where that would not lead to a wider war. It seems to be an apocalyptic scenario no matter which way you toss it around in your head.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to StWrinklemeat)

Post #: 14

RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 12:46:07 PM

StWrinklemeat

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It would be a lot to take out and many devastating remnants would remain aimed, then unleashed at South Korea.

Your missile interceptors do not actually work most of the time. Does your American public know that? Getting and developing the technology is the hardest bit and they are just about there. Replicating it is not so hard, nor is refining it.

And they really will aim that bomb at the Yellowstone caldera and it won’t just be the one bomb, and the longer this goes on it will become more like a TSAR like bomb read up on this, and that shock wave traveled the earth three times.

People forget that Saddam invoked scorched earth. Kim is worse.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 7:25:57 PM

MercTech

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China should take the lead on the North Korea problem. They share a border and are the ones that will be in the most danger if things go bad.

There isn't a whole lot on Guam but it is a very useful supply and replenishment point in the western Pacific. Guam and Okinawa are Japanese Protectorates with a U.S. Military presence.

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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 8:04:02 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StWrinklemeat

It would be a lot to take out and many devastating remnants would remain aimed, then unleashed at South Korea.

Your missile interceptors do not actually work most of the time. Does your American public know that? Getting and developing the technology is the hardest bit and they are just about there. Replicating it is not so hard, nor is refining it.

And they really will aim that bomb at the Yellowstone caldera and it won’t just be the one bomb, and the longer this goes on it will become more like a TSAR like bomb read up on this, and that shock wave traveled the earth three times.

People forget that Saddam invoked scorched earth. Kim is worse.

But this is one of opportunities for the MIC to to descend on K St. so the powers-that-be are now convinced they need oh say at least 100 or hell...200 more anti-missile kits. (those are like a million-a-pop, right ?) Never miss a chance to make a profit, says every board of every co. in the MIC and here...is a chance.

I am sure lobbyists for every cruise missile co. is selling K St. on sea launched missile defense. So, they'll need a few hundred more of them too. You can take that out of petty cash.

Kinkroids, that your grandchildren everyday for paying for this.

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: North Korea tests Hydrogen Bomb - 9/4/2017 8:15:54 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

China should take the lead on the North Korea problem. They share a border and are the ones that will be in the most danger if things go bad.

There isn't a whole lot on Guam but it is a very useful supply and replenishment point in the western Pacific. Guam and Okinawa are Japanese Protectorates with a U.S. Military presence.

Not according to google, wiki and the CIA.

Guam is a presidential representative democratic, whereby the Governor is head of government, and of a multi-party system. Guam is an organized, unincorporated territory of the United States with policy relations between Guam and the US under the jurisdiction of the Office of Insular Affairs.

The Japanese had to take Guam starting the day after Pearl in 1941 and the US retook it in summer of 1944.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 18

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