RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 5:36:08 PM)

quote:


I see you totally avoided the question, before I go any further with you, I want you to answer the question. If you don't, I'm not going to bother going further with you.

The question: If right wingers acted the exact same as antifa except they are on the right, not left, are they still fascists? For example, right wingers being violent against others for simply having a different opinion.

Until you answer that question, we can progress furtherin this discussion.

If its fascism if right wingers do it, its fascism when left wingers do it.


I did answer your question, insofar as it even made sense.

Your usual bluster. You get asked a question, which you answer so cretinously - if indeed you answer it at all - that it's meaningless.

"The actions of inflicting violence onto others for having a different point of view. " Right - that's your definition of fascism. Anybody and everybody who does that is a fascist. Superb.

Every time, without fail ... I suppose I should have known, by now. You never, ever, accepted that your definition of 'feminism is what feminists do' had a logical hole in it - why would I expect you to be different about this?




PeonForHer -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 5:42:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

An intetesting read.

http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/03/fascist-roots-american-left/amp/


An interesting piece of nutty propaganda - as always, accepted wholesale by you and regurgitated here without a shred of critical analysis on your part.




proudmisogynist -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 6:00:01 PM)

So you're admitting to being a hypocrite.

It's not fascism when leftists do X but it all the sudden is when the right does the same.




stef -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 6:08:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

The question: If right wingers acted the exact same as antifa except they are on the right, not left, are they still fascists?

It's an inane question.

It's not a question of right or left, it's a question of fighting facists. "Right wingers" aren't going to act "the same as antifa" because they would be attacking themselves.

quote:

For example, right wingers being violent against others for simply having a different opinion.

If you think that's what the antifa folks are doing, you're an exponentially bigger idiot than anyone here ever thought you were.

If there weren't facists to fight, there would be no antifa.

quote:

An intetesting read.

http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/03/fascist-roots-american-left/amp/

No, not even remotely. There is nothing interesting about a wordpress blog that's a nothing more than a mouthpiece for The Heritage Foundation.




proudmisogynist -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 6:11:19 PM)

As leftists aren't facists for attacking others with a different opinion, I can only assume that the right isn't neither when they do the same.




PeonForHer -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 6:55:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

As leftists aren't facists for attacking others with a different opinion, I can only assume that the right isn't neither when they do the same.

Seriously - do you think that if you keep saying that, it'll eventually somehow make sense?




stef -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 7:00:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

As leftists aren't facists for attacking others with a different opinion, I can only assume that the right isn't neither when they do the same.

Seriously - do you think that if you keep saying that, it'll eventually somehow make sense?

It makes sense to him because it supports the brainless reactionary pablum that Prison Planet, Rebel Media and other equivalent sources cram down his greedy maw on a daily basis. He's incapable of thinking anything other than what they tell him to.




stef -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 7:03:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

As leftists aren't facists for attacking others with a different opinion, I can only assume that the right isn't neither when they do the same.

Opposing facists is not "attacking others with a different opinion". Retard.




proudmisogynist -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 8:15:26 PM)

Obviously the right has a different definition of what fascism is compared to the left. The only reason why nazism/nationalism are included in the meaning of fascism is because its a prime example of fascism throughout western history.

The dictionary meaning of chauvinism usually implies a male as an example. The really is that females can be chauvinists too

Dictionary meaning of fascism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

quote:

1 often capitalized :  a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by adictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2:  a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


That has antifa written all over it.

quote:

Opposing facists is not "attacking others with a different opinion". Retard. 


So, retard, can you give one single example where antifa are attacking fascists? What I mean by this, the people who they attack, is there any evidence at all that they are fascists?

All the examples I have seen is just people dissgreeing with them. I could be wrong though. Care to prove me wrong?

Every single example I have seen antifa attacking someone, there has been no evidence at all of them being fascists.








proudmisogynist -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 8:22:00 PM)

https://medium.com/@Charlie_Wilson/fascism-is-a-left-wing-ideology-867602bf1154




BamaD -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 10:29:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

The actions of inflicting violence onto others for having a different point of view.

I want your honest answer, peon, if that's possible. I know you are intellectually dishonest a lot of the time though.

If right wingers acted the same as antifa, what would they be, peon? Are they fascists? If so, why. If not, why?

If right wingers acted the same against their opponents as antifa acts against theirs, there is no doubt in my mind that leftists would be squealing "facsist"!

It's like saying if a leftist kills someone, it isn't murder. It's only murder when a right winger kills someone. That's the type of wacky logic you get from the left.


This is the same species of dribble as your now-famous 'feminism is what feminists do'. 'Intellectual dishonesty', my arse. I've only ever been accused of that by one or two certifiable fruitcakes here. You crack me up!

Where are you going with this 'reasoning' of yours, RM?

If right wingers - actually you mean ultra-right-wingers, of course, because nobody's said all right wingers are Nazis or even close - acted the same as their opponents - by which ... not argue for the subordination of other races, not aim guns at them, not drive cars into them, for instance? What are you getting at?

Tell me, RM: all those Allied soldiers who fought the Germans in WW2 - were they Nazis, because they used most of the same fighting tactics as the Nazis themselves? People of opposing sides will often act the same way, on the basis of the belief that you have to fight fire with fire.

Fascism is an ideology. It makes no sense to define some political ideology or another on the basis of people's actions alone and in a way that's divorced from their ideas. The clue is in the words 'idea' and 'ideology' having the same root.

The Americans (and British ) who fought the Germans were not the same.
They did not fight the Germans because the disagreed with their politics, but because they were trying to conquer us, not the same thing
at all. War is war. When , as antifa does you use violence to try and silence political opposition what ever you may call them they
are anti democratic and a threat to society.
This is why I and most others consider both neo-nazis and antifa scum.
At the moment antifa is the more violent of the two.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 10:29:25 PM)

quote:

So, retard, can you give one single example where antifa are attacking fascists? What I mean by this, the people who they attack, is there any evidence at all that they are fascists?

Um, I am pretty sure the swastikas are a tell.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/4/2017 10:59:45 PM)

Antifa attacks the right wing. Right wing bully boys ( whatever title they give themselves) attack the left wing. Do they really have anything to do with either political belief or, like the soccer-louts in Britain, are they just there for the fight ?




MariaB -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 12:29:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

https://medium.com/@Charlie_Wilson/fascism-is-a-left-wing-ideology-867602bf1154


Hardly a scholarly article. Like all political ideologies, nationalism is a very broad framework. Integral nationalism is not the same as liberal nationalism, which in turn is not the same as romantic nationalism or German national socialism.

To call someone a 'nationalist' or 'socialist' is meaningless without further discourse. Like most political ideologies, nationalism has many offshoots/ideals. Fascism, on the other hand, has a limited framework because it was simply an ideology born out of ‘integral nationalism’ in Italy and went on to become an integral part of ‘German national socialism’. But don’t be fooled by the use of the word ‘socialism’. German national socialism is an imperialistic and militaristic form of socialism and in no way overlaps with the ideals of democratic socialism. Both German national socialism, 'Integral Nationalism' and 'Fascism' includes extreme elitism, race divide and a vitriolic contempt for the masses.

Antifa is not imperialist. Antifa doesn't wish to divide race, therefore, painting them as fascist is incorrect in every conceivable way.





tweakabelle -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 1:34:17 AM)

quote:

proudmisogynist
An intetesting read.

http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/03/fascist-roots-american-left/amp/



quote:

ORIGINAL: proudmisogynist

As leftists aren't facists for attacking others with a different opinion, I can only assume that the right isn't neither when they do the same.

nikki, the term 'fascism' refers to an ideology, not an action or series of actions. The clue is in the '-ism' bit at the end of fascism. So to be a fascist, you must (by definition) believe in fascist ideology. And unless you believe in fascist ideology (or some variant thereof) you cannot be a fascist.

It gets a little more complicated when you use the term 'fascist'. This term can be used to describe anyone who explicitly accepts and believes in fascist ideology but also to describe behaviour or actions that are consistent with or typical of those who believe in fascism. So for example a neo-Nazi trying to burn down a synagogue would be engaged in behaviour that is both consistent with, and typical of fascism and fascists. Or, as racial supremacism is a central part of fascist ideologies, it would be reasonable to describe white supremacists as exhibiting fascist tendencies or behaving like fascists.

But for our purposes here, suffice to say that the term fascist only applies to those who believe in fascist ideology (or some variant thereof). In Charlottesville, the people who can be most accurately described as 'fascist' were the neo-Nazis because they are a group that explicitly accepts and believes in fascist ideology. As leftists (by definition) cannot believe in fascist ideology, it is never accurate to describe leftists as fascists.

So a useful rule of thumb is: unless the belief in fascist ideology is present, it is probably wiser to find another adjective to describe people or their actions. (All the above assumes you want to use language accurately.)




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 1:07:40 PM)

Simple measure?
Fascism places the needs of the state above those of the capitalists and workers.




BeautifulNotion -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 1:11:09 PM)

And it is happening right now in America.

How do I get an avatar on this place anyway?




bounty44 -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 3:29:00 PM)

from a post I had back in February:

quote:

Has Google, the world’s most popular search engine, changed the definition of the word “fascism” to protect liberal mobs using violence to silence those who disagree with them politically? The evidence suggest they have.

You see it on signs at every protest or riot — liberals accuse President Donald Trump of being a fascist. The word’s association with Adolf Hitler and its use now is no accident, it’s meant to strike fear in people’s hearts of tyranny.

Merriam-Webster defines the word “fascism” as “a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.” The secondary definition is “a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.”

This definition reflects the fact that Nazis were, in fact, both fascists and of the political left. They were the “National Socialist German Workers Party,” which favored a heavy-handed government in business and the personal lives of its citizens.

The authoritarian government of Nazi Germany not only oppressed opposing political views and used violence to enforce it, they supported a powerful central government which heaped social benefits on its citizens. The second part of Nazism is the “socialist” part, which is very similar to what the modern American political left advocates. For all their bluster to the contrary, Hitler was a man of the extreme left, and so was fellow fascist and Axis Powers member Benito Mussolini.

But if you type the word into Google, the definition they provide is quite different.

The world’s largest search engine pins fascism on the political right, not the left.

Google defines fascism as, “an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.” (emphasis added)

The secondary definition is, “(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.”

That’s a striking difference from how the word has been defined for decades.

Political conservatives advocate for small, less intrusive government where power rests with the states and individuals, and the federal government lives within its Constitutional restraints. Progressive liberals advocate for just the opposite: a powerful central government with authority vested in a strong leader who has the ability to impose decrees from Washington on everything from health care to education.

Google curiously adds “right-wing” to its definition and omits the “severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition” part.

By the traditional Merriam-Webster definition of “severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition,” the violent mobs protesting and rioting over President Trump’s actions are the ones engaging in fascistic tactics.

The exact reason Google has changed the definition of fascism to reflect on the political right rather than the left is unknown. However, Google co-founder Sergey Brin, one of the world’s richest men, has been a vocal critic of President Trump, an activist liberal, and has protested the President’s executive order on immigration.

Many members of the mainstream media have unquestioningly adopted the new Google meaning without explaining why, leaving their audience with the impression that speech or advocacy contrary to liberal orthodoxy is fascistic when, by definition, it is not.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/04/google-redefines-the-word-fascism-to-smear-conservatives-protect-liberal-rioters/




Lucylastic -> RE: George Orwell Would Have Supported Antifa' (9/5/2017 3:47:17 PM)

That is a glorious lie...
Google didnt change anything.
OED online espouses the same....
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism
And has done since before I went to school.
Stop fucking lying.
[image]https://i.imgur.com/LkPCqrN.jpg[/image]




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