RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving

RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (Full Version)

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WhoreMods -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 9:32:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Well, the irony was him telling someone else he's FOS for implying that mankind has anything to do with environmental change, then providing proof of mankind's impact on the environment to 'win the argument.' Playing that "no you didn't!" "yes I did!" or whatever kid's game argumentation. You know, like when four yr. olds are saying the same thing but still find a way to argue about it. If he could just get to the stage of pronouncing three syllable words properly, he might have a game. Reducing every multi-syllable word to just two syllables is his idea of not just ingenuity, but actually . . . 'enlightenment'. PS Or, "litemint," as he would say it. Sort of the point of that cartoon (the mulching aside): Groo is legendarily stupid, but believes himself to a fiendish and insightful disputant with clearheaded insights. Still not used to getting your ass handed to you, everyone else does better get used to it. Found those missing 475,000 stiffs at Dresden yet? found any gassed jews yet? the missing 6 million? That's a "no" then. Thought so.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 9:33:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Protein absolutely comes from the sun. All matter is ultimately derived from energy. Look up photosynthesis, in this case. From that, plants provide the amino acids whence all 'complete protein' is derived. If you know the least bit about basic physics and chemistry and biology and how all that works, sunlight is ultimately responsible for all our food/clothing/shelter. There is no such thing as life to begin with if not for sunlight. Those bacteria and flat worms living deep in the sea with no idea what sunlight exists live on matter and biologica as began with the energy from sunlight. Does the sun shoot down nitrogen, too? I don't know what physics, chemistry, biology, or what-the-fuck-ever you studied, but it's truly flawed.

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 9:54:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird Protein absolutely comes from the sun. All matter is ultimately derived from energy. Look up photosynthesis, in this case. From that, plants provide the amino acids whence all 'complete protein' is derived. If you know the least bit about basic physics and chemistry and biology and how all that works, sunlight is ultimately responsible for all our food/clothing/shelter. There is no such thing as life to begin with if not for sunlight. Those bacteria and flat worms living deep in the sea with no idea what sunlight exists live on matter and biologica as began with the energy from sunlight. Does the sun shoot down nitrogen, too? I don't know what physics, chemistry, biology, or what-the-fuck-ever you studied, but it's truly flawed. The OP amounts to minutia, worst case, a few percent, meaning you eat one extra spoonful of wheat, where the real danger is how ever is the combination of constantly depleted soil due to the removal of nutrients and placing them somewhere else, like city sewage plants etc. So its not like there is no problem there is a growing problem but co2 is a small cog in the wheel compared to the other problems causing nutrient deficiency.

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 7:57:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 He most definitely DID miss the point. The article mentions nothing about uptake from the soil. Rather than my paraphrasing: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads to them pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc. It's NOT a question of getting anything from the soil. (Hence the missed point) Where does the protein, iron and zinc come from? (Hint: it's not in the air or sunlight) Read the article. It talks about the process of photosynthesis. (Which utilizes CO2 (in the air) and sunlight). Hint: It is precisely in the air and sunlight. To quote once again: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads to them pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc.

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 9:47:10 PM)
so as far as you are concerned this is a national crisis [8\|]

heavyblinker -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 11:35:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne The OP amounts to minutia, worst case, a few percent, meaning you eat one extra spoonful of wheat, No. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/07/climate-change-food-crops-nutrition quote: Myers said simply eating more staple foods to meet zinc and iron requirements was not realistic when food production already must double by 2050 to meet the demand of rising populations. Some of the varieties used in the research performed better than others, raising the prospect of breeding strains that are less vulnerable to rising CO2. But the researchers noted: "Such breeding programmes will not be a panacea for many reasons including the affordability of improved seeds and the numerous criteria used by farmers in making planting decisions that include taste, tradition, marketability, growing requirements and yield." Myers acknowledged that rising CO2 can improve crop yields on some circumstances, but said: "There may be a little positive effect, but the people who work in this area would not want to hang their hat on that in the face of the many other negative effects of climate change, including heatwaves droughts and floods."

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/14/2017 11:56:26 PM)
Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there.

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:11:18 AM)
http://www.vitaminlife.com/index/page/product/product_id/6577/product_name/Zinc+Chelate+50mg?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2tjn8dCm1gIVxQOGCh3ZaAyYEAQYDSABEgKDSfD_BwE http://www.vitalitymedical.com/mckesson-iron-supplement.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI07ryrtGm1gIVUQeGCh0DLAgeEAQYAiABEgL-ePD_BwE problem solved Abstract Elevated CO2 is expected to lower plant nutrient concentrations via carbohydrate dilution and increased nutrient use efﬁciency. Elevated CO2 con- sistently lowers plant foliar nitrogen, but there is no consensus on CO2 effects across the range of plant nutrients. We used meta-analysis to quantify elevated CO2 effects on leaf, stem, root, and seed concentrations of B, Ca, Cu, Fe, K, Mg, Mn, P, S, and Zn among four plant functional groups and two levels of N fertiliza- tion. CO2 effects on plant nutrient concentration depended on the nutrient, plant group, tissue, and N status. CO2 reduced B, Cu, Fe, and Mg, but increased Mn concentration in the leaves of N2 ﬁxers. Elevated CO2 increased Cu, Fe, and Zn, but lowered Mn concentration in grass leaves. Tree leaf responses were strongly related to N status: CO2 signiﬁcantly decreased Cu, Fe, Mg, and S at high N, but only Fe at low N. Elevated CO2 decreased Mg and Zn in crop leaves grown with high N, and Mn at low N. Nutrient concentrations in crop roots were not affected by CO2 enrichment, but CO2 decreased Ca,K,Mg and P in tree roots. Crop seeds had lower S under elevated CO2.We also tested the validity of a ‘‘dilution model.’’ CO2 reduced the concentration of plant nutrients 6.6% across nutrients and plant groups, but the reduction is less than expected (18.4%) from carbohydrate accu- mulation alone. We found that elevated CO2 impacts plant nutrient status differently among the nutrient elements, plant functional groups, and among plant tissues. Our synthesis suggests that differences between plant groups and plant organs,Nstatus, and differences in nutrient chemistry in soils preclude a universal hypothesis strictly related to carbohydrate dilution regarding plant nutrient response to elevated CO2. [8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|] In other words the OP is typical dealing with a 1/2 deck climate fear mongering

heavyblinker -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:31:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there. I guess mass starvation isn't a major concern.

heavyblinker -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:36:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne In other words the OP is typical dealing with a 1/2 deck climate fear mongering Even if they can somehow completely overhaul agriculture in the most vulnerable regions, there is still a wide consensus on how floods and droughts affect crop growth.

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:40:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there. I guess mass starvation isn't a major concern. thats not what happens Iron deficiency causes fatigue weakness and pale skin and zinc deficiency causes poor neurological function but it does explain your problem mass starvation, what an idgit drama queen ffs

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:45:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne In other words the OP is typical dealing with a 1/2 deck climate fear mongering Even if they can somehow completely overhaul agriculture in the most vulnerable regions, there is still a wide consensus on how floods and droughts affect crop growth. clearly you are incapable of comprehending what you should have read above.

heavyblinker -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 3:12:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there. I guess mass starvation isn't a major concern. thats not what happens Iron deficiency causes fatigue weakness and pale skin and zinc deficiency causes poor neurological function but it does explain your problem mass starvation, what an idgit drama queen ffs If the plants are not as nutritious, you will have to grow more of them... and of course in the future there will be more people but also less available water. So the demand will be higher and the crops will be more expensive, which means people will not be able to afford them. Maybe you can just drink vitamin slurpees all day but in the third world it isn't so easy. And seriously... WTF happened to you. You used to be a generic manic conspiracy nut and now you're like Bosco with more insanity.

heavyblinker -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 3:15:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne In other words the OP is typical dealing with a 1/2 deck climate fear mongering Even if they can somehow completely overhaul agriculture in the most vulnerable regions, there is still a wide consensus on how floods and droughts affect crop growth. clearly you are incapable of comprehending what you should have read above. I think the best way to achieve communication in these situations is for you to just tell me what you think it means so I can respond to that. If I respond to what is actually there, we probably won't be on the same page.

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 9:36:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne In other words the OP is typical dealing with a 1/2 deck climate fear mongering Even if they can somehow completely overhaul agriculture in the most vulnerable regions, there is still a wide consensus on how floods and droughts affect crop growth. clearly you are incapable of comprehending what you should have read above. I think the best way to achieve communication in these situations is for you to just tell me what you think it means so I can respond to that. If I respond to what is actually there, we probably won't be on the same page. you think you are responding to whats there, you arent, hence its pretty clear you have zinc deficient diet

DesideriScuri -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 9:37:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 He most definitely DID miss the point. The article mentions nothing about uptake from the soil. Rather than my paraphrasing: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads to them pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc. It's NOT a question of getting anything from the soil. (Hence the missed point) Where does the protein, iron and zinc come from? (Hint: it's not in the air or sunlight) Read the article. It talks about the process of photosynthesis. (Which utilizes CO2 (in the air) and sunlight). Hint: It is precisely in the air and sunlight. To quote once again: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads to them pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc. Come on, MJ. You're better than this. You keep telling us where the plants are getting CO2 and sunlight. Photosynthesis doesn't give us any protein, iron, or zinc. Those things come from somewhere else. It's not the sun. It's not the air. A plant can only suck up so much through it's roots. If foliar growth exceeds the roots ability to provide other nutrients (ie. nitrogen (the lone molecular building block that is the difference between protein and glucose), iron, zinc, etc.), of course the plant is not going to be as nutrient dense as it was before the extra foliar growth. It goes right back to my example of a grape vine. If you have more foliage and/or grapes than your roots can support, you will have a poor crop of grapes. Vineyards will control foliage and the number of fruiting bunches to make sure the grapes that are left are of better quality. To RO's point, if you don't tend to your soil properly, you'll eventually deplete all the minerals and other nutrients, which will also result in a plant that's not as nutrient dense, regardless of how much photosynthesis is going on. Crop rotation has only been going on for thousands of years.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 9:43:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne The OP amounts to minutia, worst case, a few percent, meaning you eat one extra spoonful of wheat, No. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/07/climate-change-food-crops-nutrition quote: Myers said simply eating more staple foods to meet zinc and iron requirements was not realistic when food production already must double by 2050 to meet the demand of rising populations. Some of the varieties used in the research performed better than others, raising the prospect of breeding strains that are less vulnerable to rising CO2. But the researchers noted: "Such breeding programmes will not be a panacea for many reasons including the affordability of improved seeds and the numerous criteria used by farmers in making planting decisions that include taste, tradition, marketability, growing requirements and yield." Myers acknowledged that rising CO2 can improve crop yields on some circumstances, but said: "There may be a little positive effect, but the people who work in this area would not want to hang their hat on that in the face of the many other negative effects of climate change, including heatwaves droughts and floods." Oooookaaaayyy. CO2 increases plant growth, but reduces nutrient density. We can't just eat a little more to make up for the reduced nutrient density because we won't be able to produce enough to feed everyone. So, what's your solution, sport? How are we going to increase nutrient-dense plant growth? You don't think the same principles can be applied so as to make the extra growth from increased CO2 as nutrient dense as the plant was before the extra growth? How are you going to get more nutrients into the plant?

Real0ne -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 9:43:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there. I guess mass starvation isn't a major concern. thats not what happens Iron deficiency causes fatigue weakness and pale skin and zinc deficiency causes poor neurological function but it does explain your problem mass starvation, what an idgit drama queen ffs If the plants are not as nutritious, you will have to grow more of them... and of course in the future there will be more people but also less available water. So the demand will be higher and the crops will be more expensive, which means people will not be able to afford them. Maybe you can just drink vitamin slurpees all day but in the third world it isn't so easy. And seriously... WTF happened to you. You used to be a generic manic conspiracy nut and now you're like Bosco with more insanity. it means you are eating something that has more sugar content and 'slightly' less (couple percent) minerals/vitamins, which does not cause starvation but 'may' cause a deficiency in minerals/vitamins 'if thats the only thing you eat in your diet'. Only need about a 75 IQ to figure that out. You can be stuffed and still be nutrient deficient, you dont starve, no hunger pains. That is why you are supposed to eat a balanced diet not just one source of food.

WhoreMods -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:25:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Oh? Thats what he 'said'? Well I said it was realistic, so there. I guess mass starvation isn't a major concern. thats not what happens Iron deficiency causes fatigue weakness and pale skin and zinc deficiency causes poor neurological function but it does explain your problem mass starvation, what an idgit drama queen ffs If the plants are not as nutritious, you will have to grow more of them... and of course in the future there will be more people but also less available water. So the demand will be higher and the crops will be more expensive, which means people will not be able to afford them. Maybe you can just drink vitamin slurpees all day but in the third world it isn't so easy. And seriously... WTF happened to you. You used to be a generic manic conspiracy nut and now you're like Bosco with more insanity. it means you are eating something that has more sugar content and 'slightly' less (couple percent) minerals/vitamins, which does not cause starvation but 'may' cause a deficiency in minerals/vitamins 'if thats the only thing you eat in your diet'. Only need about a 75 IQ to figure that out. You can be stuffed and still be nutrient deficient, you dont starve, no hunger pains. That is why you are supposed to eat a balanced diet not just one source of food. Actually it means the plants are loading up on sugar as they attempt to process the excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and not absorbing other stuff as a result. But you need an IQ of at least 75 to figure that out...

ShadesDecadent -> RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving (9/15/2017 12:57:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne [sm=champ.gif] Bingo! Yahtze! You got it, plants dont get their nutrients from air, every farmer on the planet knows you have to either replenish the soil or rotate crops in a manner that self replenishes. Thats why Phds get a Phd so they can show us how fucking stupid they are with their half asses analysis in support of the latest Zio Jiz. Bingo! Yahtze! You TOTALLY misunderstand the issue. Where plants get their nutrients from is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The theory is: The increased photosynthesis, due to increased CO2, leads to more carbohydrates (e.g. glucose), and less nutrients that benefit humans. You are COMPLETELY misunderstanding, confusing, and conflating nutrients that plants need for THEIR health with nutrients which plants produce which benefit OUR health. See excerpt below: But as the zooplankton experiment showed, greater volume and better quality might not go hand-in-hand. In fact, they might be inversely linked. As best scientists can tell, this is what happens: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads to them pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc. zooplankton You could argue they are the most critical orgasm (guffaws) on the planet. they were not designed for pollution, acidification, gamma ray burst. You will find whenever they collapse so does Life itself to near extinction. Oxygen was actually a toxin until fairly recently.

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