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The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 5:57:34 AM   
MasterJaguar01


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Status: offline 		Now scientists are discovering that greater CO2 reduces the amount of key nutrients in our crops (all while promoting their growth)

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/09/13/food-nutrients-carbon-dioxide-000511?lo=ap_a1


I can hear the deniers now... "Food nutrient loss is cyclical!"
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thompsonx


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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 6:19:05 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Now scientists are discovering that greater CO2 reduces the amount of key nutrients in our crops (all while promoting their growth)

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/09/13/food-nutrients-carbon-dioxide-000511?lo=ap_a1


I can hear the deniers now... "Food nutrient loss is cyclical!"


Either that or Al Gore is getting a backhander from the food packagers and farming companies...

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 6:51:46 AM   
Greta75


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Which is weird, because I thought plants need CO2 to survive?

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 7:10:38 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Which is weird, because I thought plants need CO2 to survive?

There's a pretty straightfowards description of why it appears to be causing problems in the article in the OP, Greta.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 7:35:10 AM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Which is weird, because I thought plants need CO2 to survive?



They do. Read the article.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 8:18:20 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		yep another bogus 1/2 assed test from our 'ALLEGED' scientific community, see if you can fugger out why.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 9:07:02 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Interesting article. My first question would be if you can compensate by modifying fertilizers.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 9:41:16 AM   
Real0ne


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Bingo!
Yahtze!

You got it, plants dont get their nutrients from air, every farmer on the planet knows you have to either replenish the soil or rotate crops in a manner that self replenishes.

Thats why Phds get a Phd so they can show us how fucking stupid they are with their half asses analysis in support of the latest Zio Jiz.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 10:16:22 AM   
DarkRavisher


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Status: offline 		The reason the earth is not currently frozen is because we do actually have a greenhouse effect so we do actually need some CO2 to be present in the atmosphere. We belch out all manner of toxic and noxious chemicals and call some of them pesticides, flint tap water, didn’t we used to have an ozone layer, etc. Plastics have already entered the marine-human food chain, as has Mercury, to cite a couple of examples.

"Without this greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature would be 255 degrees kelvin (-18 degrees Celsius or 0 degrees Fahrenheit); a temperature so low that all water on Earth would freeze, the oceans would turn into ice and life, as we know it, would not exist"

"The gases that absorb the most infrared heat radiation are minor ingredients of our atmosphere. They are water vapor and carbon dioxide, with water vapor absorbing the most. Sixty to seventy percent of the Earth’s greenhouse warming is now caused by water vapor and carbon dioxide provides just a few degrees."

If we stopped emitting C02, methane, etc, right now the earth would still continue to warm because there is a lag effect. The flip side of the coin is if the Sun suddenly vanished we would have around 100 years before the Oceans, then the atmosphere, completely froze (the atmosphere would freeze to its appropriate solids and simply fall to earth as snow of: CO2, oxygen, equinox, nitrogen etc).

< Message edited by DarkRavisher -- 9/13/2017 10:31:35 AM >

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 10:38:59 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		dont forget the clouds after forming reflect the heat right back out into space, the planet takes care of itself.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DarkRavisher)
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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 10:44:30 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
...plants dont get their nutrients from air...

The article mentions how the science has been more focused on yield instead of nutrition. If you ever listen to any farm reports that's pretty much the only kind of talk you hear coming from the seed advertisements.

I'm not a farmer but I've grown a few plants in my time. Something I quickly learned is how much the soil content affects the quality of your yield and just how fast plants can drain any nutrients you put in. Another is how much it can cost to keep your soil healthy. So, scaled up to mass production levels, my guess would be that food plants have been weak on nutrients for decades (which the article also says) and it's too expensive for farmers to enrich the soil to the level it probably should be. Assuming the article is correct, we may be reaching a point where soil content can no longer be treated superficially...which is probably a good thing anyway.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 10:51:02 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Bingo!
Yahtze!

You got it, plants dont get their nutrients from air, every farmer on the planet knows you have to either replenish the soil or rotate crops in a manner that self replenishes.

Thats why Phds get a Phd so they can show us how fucking stupid they are with their half asses analysis in support of the latest Zio Jiz.

I waited for two posts and here they are. I am the single most cynical person in my life but I don't wear it on my sleave. You seem to let it poison your very thought process.

Yes, we do have real science, yes, too much is devoted to a profit, yes, we get some crazy shit sometimes. However, we've known about non-arable soil, the overuse of chemicals/pesticides and how the govt, sells out to allow that shit to go on.

Still, this is where we literally get our shit together. as irony would have, the best is chicken shit, then horse and cow shit.

Isn't is just precious how bull shit is...the least effective ?

The principle in this and ever so basically too, no PHD necessary, is that with too much of anything in a compound by definition upsets a natural balance of elements and here, the CO2 displaces other needed components for optimum growth.

Example:

In my attempt to sell a new coating many years ago, I discovered that in corrosion tests, a 20% salt solution was less effective than a 5% solution. Why ? How can that be ? The extra 15% salt displaces too much oxygen, the other necessary agent in corrosion.

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(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 10:52:48 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		well cash crops are just that, cash crops, they really dont give a shit for the quality of the food as long as it has bulk since its sold by the pound. Take chromium for instance, virtually nonexitent in the soil of mass producers. You are right on, most of the food goes to support cities where the waste is processed and never gets back on the fields, hence the depletion of nutrients.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 11:04:02 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well cash crops are just that, cash crops, they really dont give a shit for the quality of the food as long as it has bulk since its sold by the pound. Take chromium for instance, virtually nonexitent in the soil of mass producers. You are right on, most of the food goes to support cities where the waste is processed and never gets back on the fields, hence the depletion of nutrients.

Except that trust me on this one, as a nation, our fresh fruits and vegetables are of a much and consistently higher quality than anywhere especially given the volume the US produces.

I've purchased and also see agric. from even Japan and on this, check me out, most foreign (not all) agric....sucks and in comparison, much of it unedible.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 11:05:15 AM   
DarkRavisher


Posts: 48
Joined: 3/29/2013
Status: offline 		I agree with the planet does take care of itself. I am not sure what to write about that one as it can do so over relatively short periods of time, yet at other times the time periods are immense.

Like your cloud cover & particular matter point. If there is too much cloud cover then we have another Venus and a runaway green house effect. If we had no cloud cover buggered if I know (never came up before). But the amount of cloud cover you and me are talking about would still have an adverse effect on Albido.

“Snowball earth” which has happened, allegedly, at least twice I think we still had cloud cover then and the atmosphere did not freeze over. Apparently it was volcanism that came to our rescue. They think. (CO2, water vapour etc and particulate matter, dust, etc)

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 11:07:15 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
...plants dont get their nutrients from air...

The article mentions how the science has been more focused on yield instead of nutrition. If you ever listen to any farm reports that's pretty much the only kind of talk you hear coming from the seed advertisements.

I'm not a farmer but I've grown a few plants in my time. Something I quickly learned is how much the soil content affects the quality of your yield and just how fast plants can drain any nutrients you put in. Another is how much it can cost to keep your soil healthy. So, scaled up to mass production levels, my guess would be that food plants have been weak on nutrients for decades (which the article also says) and it's too expensive for farmers to enrich the soil to the level it probably should be. Assuming the article is correct, we may be reaching a point where soil content can no longer be treated superficially...which is probably a good thing anyway.

Hell, it is mostly soil work as I understand it, that makes the US pot industry no. 1. Canada leads in all else...but not the bud anymore. They started down the path of plant design, the US is perfecting it.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 11:10:50 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
...plants dont get their nutrients from air...

The article mentions how the science has been more focused on yield instead of nutrition. If you ever listen to any farm reports that's pretty much the only kind of talk you hear coming from the seed advertisements.

I'm not a farmer but I've grown a few plants in my time. Something I quickly learned is how much the soil content affects the quality of your yield and just how fast plants can drain any nutrients you put in. Another is how much it can cost to keep your soil healthy. So, scaled up to mass production levels, my guess would be that food plants have been weak on nutrients for decades (which the article also says) and it's too expensive for farmers to enrich the soil to the level it probably should be. Assuming the article is correct, we may be reaching a point where soil content can no longer be treated superficially...which is probably a good thing anyway.

Get a horse. Your plants and yields will triple.

We dump it all year, till it in in the spring.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 2:56:58 PM   
MercTech


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Status: offline 		I guess the scientists that wrote that study didn't read "Progressive Farmer" from back in the 70s as there was a series of articles on that very subject. (You never know what you will read when stuck at the Grandparents house during a long power outage with hurricane dregs deluging the fields.)

The article then was discussing the advantages and disadvantages of using growth stimulants along with fertilizers for crops. Bottom line was that one plant will process a given amount of nutrients. If you stimulate to have the edible parts maxisize, the nutrient density will be lower. And, the larger amount of water in the crops can have a bad effect on shelf life and shipping durability.

BTW, you can do a test yourself by raising plants in a terrarium. Set up one as a control and augment the CO2 in the other. You can measure growth rates and measure calorie content easily. Nutrient density and total content requires a biochem laboratory. It makes for a good science fair project. You need to aquariums with soil in the bottom. You augment the CO2 in one with a tin of baking soda and vinegar.

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RE: The gift of rising CO2 just keeps on giving - 9/13/2017 3:27:06 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Which is weird, because I thought plants need CO2 to survive?

You need Oxygen to survive but too much will kill you.

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