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Made2Obey -> RE: Where HRC blames everyone but herself for her campaign loss.... (9/24/2017 12:17:22 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I agree that the fact that Trump won is a big part of why this is being investigated, and I agree that the US does the same thing.
I honestly don't know if there was actual collusion between Russia and a US political campaign in past elections before... but maybe there was influence.
Still, it doesn't mean that any of this is okay, that it should be tolerated, that nothing can be done, or that we should all just accept it.
Even if some people don't realize it, this election result was a crushing humiliation for America... and whatever needs to be done to prevent it from ever happening again is a good thing.
And no, I'm not saying this because Hillary lost, I am saying this because Trump is an abomination.
If Kasich or Bush had won, I wouldn't be half as disgusted.
When I was a child in the 50s I usually went with my parents when they voted as they believed I should be exposed to the political process. I remember seeing American Communist Party members just outside the polling place handing out pamphlets and exhorting voters to vote Communist. Presumably those people were financed by the former USSR. So I am absolutely certain that the Russians have been attempting to influence American elections all of my life. It may not be right, but it's part of the gray part of politics that is always there. Today we have laws to keep influencers a given distance from polling places, so the attempts at influence have moved online.
I don't blame Zuckerberg for taking the Russians' money and running their ads, why not? It is still a country of free speech, even for Russians. In the past Americans have not been taken in by such attempts easily. Most see them for what they are and shrug them off. If our current voter pool is so easily influenced then we don't deserve to survive as a nation. I mean seriously, if a Facebook or Twitter post can alter any election significantly, then we are too stupid to rule ourselves. Can anyone here in this online community honestly say that a Tweet changed their mind about their vote? Possibly a few, but hopefully not nearly enough to swing an election. In the end it's no more than background noise that is always there, and mostly ignored.
Is it okay? No, not really, but the proper reaction is to change the system to shut down that path of influence, just as has been done before. It won't end anything, the attempted influence vector will change and life will go on pretty much as it always has.
I'll say that I have been aware of the Trump family since I was maybe 5 or 6, back when they were solid Democrats and were making money by bidding on government real estate projects, and then declaring bankruptcy. (A tactic Donald learned from his dad.) Basically they were defrauding the taxpayer. So I grew up pretty much thinking he was one of the bad guys. I never really changed my mind about that, and I never liked, "The Apprentice." Yet I voted for him. That's because I travel a lot. I have seen the real issue of illegal immigration grow ever since I left high school. I honestly believe it is the biggest problem the US faces today. I'm not anti-immigrant, I am fully aware of what immigration has done for the country. But we have had immigration laws on the books since our inception as a nation and they worked well for us as long as they were enforced. The problem began when politicians began to turn a blind eye to the very laws of the land that they are supposed to enforce. Trump was the very first candidate to come along in decades who was seriously proposing to enforce the laws that exist. Knowing that he was an imperfect person I voted for him on that issue alone. We may not need a wall specifically, but we do need to live by our own laws.
So I don't see his election as a humiliation, but more as a response to the worst problem in the country today.
In time Trump won't be in office and other philosophies will lead. That's the normal back and forth of politics. But as long as he is trying to control illegal immigration he is going to have my support. The fact of his election shows that a great many Americans agree with me on that. I honestly believe Hillary would have opened the borders and given out amnesty, citizenship, and benefits like candy, and that would have been the end of the USA as we know it. I rather like the country I grew up in.
As for Bush and Kasich... Each time a Bush has been in office the economy has suffered for the common man, and Wall Street has exceled. I think Wall Street already has about enough. Kasich ran on a platform of not expanding Medicaid in Ohio, and as soon as he was in office he pulled one of those midnight backroom moves and expanded it greatly. He pretty much spit in the face of his own base. Not someone I could comfortably vote for.
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