quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No cabinet meeting till monday on the situation in Puerto Rico, the president played golf on Saturday?

And Maria hit the island on the 20th.

Okay, the United States had already been hit with two major hurricanes, and a third was aiming at Puerto Rico, and very little done in prestaging supplies and equipment.

The guy that took over the Katrina response called the administration efforts, as in golf game and no cabinet meeting till Monday among other things, bullshit.

Okay, let me get this straight, news reports coming out of Puerto Rico the day after the storm were bad, the officials in Puerto Rico said things were dire, the President does not hold a crisis meeting with his cabinet till the following Monday?

And nobody in the military can make a direct relief response on the island without presidential authorization.

No power, no water, hospitals running on back up generators with limited fuel supplies for those, and the only agencies capable of dealing with those issues happen to be the US military....

You know, I am sorry to say this, but the die hard supporters of Trump defending his lack of action is proof of one thing, they cannot accept the fact that Trump has fucked up royally.

During Katrina relief, I saw Bush supporters criticizing the administration on these boards, and even President Bush figured out that he had dropped the ball and moved to fix the problem by appointing a general and telling him break whatever rules you have to but fix the problems.

quote:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took when he took office.

Of course, in his defense, the constitution makes no mention of him having the duty to quickly respond to a humanitarian crisis anywhere.

So, he is covered.

I played golf most of last week.

Every one of my customers was well cared for because....my staff does what they do...exceptionally well.

I never had to send one email to my clients telling them that "we're on the job...have no fear"...because....that's what my job was.

And we did it, through my staff....every day.

(Exceptionally well).

Without fail.

Having perspective is a wonderful thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Since the 2008 base closure of Roosevelt Roads and the turning over of all the base facilities to the government of Puerto Rico; the U.S. has had no resources actually on the island to release to the people.
The closest places aid could be sent from were already used up for the areas hit in Florida.
The ports and airports took days to clear so they could receive any aid.
The "ban" on ships going to Puerto Rico was a law reacquiring goods shipped from one U.S. port to another U.S., including territories and protectorates, to be preferentially carried in U.S. ships. This requirement was waived as soon as ports in Puerto Rico were cleared enough to unload any cargo. Meanwhile, U.S. ships had been loaded and were on the way.

You can't get large ships into a port clogged with debris. You can't land an airplane on a runway covered in debris. As soon as the Puerto Ricans cleared the facilities for landing and unloading; aid was delivered.

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico teamsters went on strike for higher wages and U.S. teamsters are being sent to get the supplies out of the ports and to the people. Rescue by Gringo Scab labor, good one P.R. Teamsters local.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/30/puerto-rico-teamsters-union-frente-amplio-refuse-to-deliver-supplies-use-hurricane-maria-as-contract-leverage/
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No cabinet meeting till monday on the situation in Puerto Rico, the president played golf on Saturday?

And Maria hit the island on the 20th.

Okay, the United States had already been hit with two major hurricanes, and a third was aiming at Puerto Rico, and very little done in prestaging supplies and equipment.

The guy that took over the Katrina response called the administration efforts, as in golf game and no cabinet meeting till Monday among other things, bullshit.

Okay, let me get this straight, news reports coming out of Puerto Rico the day after the storm were bad, the officials in Puerto Rico said things were dire, the President does not hold a crisis meeting with his cabinet till the following Monday?

And nobody in the military can make a direct relief response on the island without presidential authorization.

No power, no water, hospitals running on back up generators with limited fuel supplies for those, and the only agencies capable of dealing with those issues happen to be the US military....

You know, I am sorry to say this, but the die hard supporters of Trump defending his lack of action is proof of one thing, they cannot accept the fact that Trump has fucked up royally.

During Katrina relief, I saw Bush supporters criticizing the administration on these boards, and even President Bush figured out that he had dropped the ball and moved to fix the problem by appointing a general and telling him break whatever rules you have to but fix the problems.

quote:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took when he took office.

Of course, in his defense, the constitution makes no mention of him having the duty to quickly respond to a humanitarian crisis anywhere.

So, he is covered.

I played golf most of last week.

Every one of my customers was well cared for because....my staff does what they do...exceptionally well.

I never had to send one email to my clients telling them that "we're on the job...have no fear"...because....that's what my job was.

And we did it, through my staff....every day.

(Exceptionally well).

Without fail.

Having perspective is a wonderful thing.

Except that in this case, most of what had to be done had to be done with direct authorization from the president, who was on a golf course. You know that game that Obama was blasted for playing instead of being in the oval office?

For that matter so was president Bush, by the same people who defended Obama for playing golf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Since the 2008 base closure of Roosevelt Roads and the turning over of all the base facilities to the government of Puerto Rico; the U.S. has had no resources actually on the island to release to the people.
The closest places aid could be sent from were already used up for the areas hit in Florida.
The ports and airports took days to clear so they could receive any aid.
The "ban" on ships going to Puerto Rico was a law reacquiring goods shipped from one U.S. port to another U.S., including territories and protectorates, to be preferentially carried in U.S. ships. This requirement was waived as soon as ports in Puerto Rico were cleared enough to unload any cargo. Meanwhile, U.S. ships had been loaded and were on the way.

You can't get large ships into a port clogged with debris. You can't land an airplane on a runway covered in debris. As soon as the Puerto Ricans cleared the facilities for landing and unloading; aid was delivered.

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico teamsters went on strike for higher wages and U.S. teamsters are being sent to get the supplies out of the ports and to the people. Rescue by Gringo Scab labor, good one P.R. Teamsters local.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/30/puerto-rico-teamsters-union-frente-amplio-refuse-to-deliver-supplies-use-hurricane-maria-as-contract-leverage/
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

to address each of your points.

No, you cannot have ships dock in ports clogged with debris and damaged vessels.

You can however, load LCACs on Navy Amphibious assault ships with supplies and have them ferried ashore, to say, a beach...

You know, kind of what was done after the Haiti Quake and the Tsunami in the Indian ocean.

Funny thing about those assault ships, they have decks to land helicopters on, or take off from....

As far as the airports are concerned.

USAF Combat air control units can be either deployed by C130 (runway availability or long enough flat ground) inserted by helicopter or by parachute.

Equipment to clear runways or patch bomb craters can be inserted by parachute (light equipment that can move wind blown debris) or by helicopter, heavy stuff to push dirt into large bomb blasted craters.

In Haiti, after the ground personnel were in place, earth movers came in from a navy ship off shore by helicopter and they had the main airport operational and handling landing of aircraft within 8 hours.

As it stands now, per the FEMA web page, the ONLY airport handling fixed wing aircraft is San Juan, and the rest are limited to helicopters, and as of yesterday the general in charge said there is a shortage of personnel AND helicopters.

So, please explain why, when you have men trained to put bombed out airports into operation in hours, why the hell are they not being deployed?

I mean, the heaviest cargo chopper carries maybe 10 tons max payload, vs say a C130 which only needs 1200 feet of open, flat ground and can deliver 35000 pounds a trip?

What the fuck is better about a 10 ton payload versus 30.5 tons?

Seriously?

Next question, what is the benefit of pallets of bottled water vs portable water treatment units that can make 1000 gallons of fresh drinking water 24/7?

I mean, would it not make more logistical sense to be treating water in the disaster zone instead of shipping pallets of water, I mean that space could be used for meds and food, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No cabinet meeting till monday on the situation in Puerto Rico, the president played golf on Saturday?

And Maria hit the island on the 20th.

Okay, the United States had already been hit with two major hurricanes, and a third was aiming at Puerto Rico, and very little done in prestaging supplies and equipment.

The guy that took over the Katrina response called the administration efforts, as in golf game and no cabinet meeting till Monday among other things, bullshit.

Okay, let me get this straight, news reports coming out of Puerto Rico the day after the storm were bad, the officials in Puerto Rico said things were dire, the President does not hold a crisis meeting with his cabinet till the following Monday?

And nobody in the military can make a direct relief response on the island without presidential authorization.

No power, no water, hospitals running on back up generators with limited fuel supplies for those, and the only agencies capable of dealing with those issues happen to be the US military....

You know, I am sorry to say this, but the die hard supporters of Trump defending his lack of action is proof of one thing, they cannot accept the fact that Trump has fucked up royally.

During Katrina relief, I saw Bush supporters criticizing the administration on these boards, and even President Bush figured out that he had dropped the ball and moved to fix the problem by appointing a general and telling him break whatever rules you have to but fix the problems.

quote:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took when he took office.

Of course, in his defense, the constitution makes no mention of him having the duty to quickly respond to a humanitarian crisis anywhere.

So, he is covered.

I played golf most of last week.

Every one of my customers was well cared for because....my staff does what they do...exceptionally well.

I never had to send one email to my clients telling them that "we're on the job...have no fear"...because....that's what my job was.

And we did it, through my staff....every day.

(Exceptionally well).

Without fail.

Having perspective is a wonderful thing.

Except that in this case, most of what had to be done had to be done with direct authorization from the president, who was on a golf course. You know that game that Obama was blasted for playing instead of being in the oval office?

For that matter so was president Bush, by the same people who defended Obama for playing golf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Since the 2008 base closure of Roosevelt Roads and the turning over of all the base facilities to the government of Puerto Rico; the U.S. has had no resources actually on the island to release to the people.
The closest places aid could be sent from were already used up for the areas hit in Florida.
The ports and airports took days to clear so they could receive any aid.
The "ban" on ships going to Puerto Rico was a law reacquiring goods shipped from one U.S. port to another U.S., including territories and protectorates, to be preferentially carried in U.S. ships. This requirement was waived as soon as ports in Puerto Rico were cleared enough to unload any cargo. Meanwhile, U.S. ships had been loaded and were on the way.

You can't get large ships into a port clogged with debris. You can't land an airplane on a runway covered in debris. As soon as the Puerto Ricans cleared the facilities for landing and unloading; aid was delivered.

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico teamsters went on strike for higher wages and U.S. teamsters are being sent to get the supplies out of the ports and to the people. Rescue by Gringo Scab labor, good one P.R. Teamsters local.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/30/puerto-rico-teamsters-union-frente-amplio-refuse-to-deliver-supplies-use-hurricane-maria-as-contract-leverage/
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

to address each of your points.

No, you cannot have ships dock in ports clogged with debris and damaged vessels.

You can however, load LCACs on Navy Amphibious assault ships with supplies and have them ferried ashore, to say, a beach...

You know, kind of what was done after the Haiti Quake and the Tsunami in the Indian ocean.

Funny thing about those assault ships, they have decks to land helicopters on, or take off from....

As far as the airports are concerned.

USAF Combat air control units can be either deployed by C130 (runway availability or long enough flat ground) inserted by helicopter or by parachute.

Equipment to clear runways or patch bomb craters can be inserted by parachute (light equipment that can move wind blown debris) or by helicopter, heavy stuff to push dirt into large bomb blasted craters.

In Haiti, after the ground personnel were in place, earth movers came in from a navy ship off shore by helicopter and they had the main airport operational and handling landing of aircraft within 8 hours.

As it stands now, per the FEMA web page, the ONLY airport handling fixed wing aircraft is San Juan, and the rest are limited to helicopters, and as of yesterday the general in charge said there is a shortage of personnel AND helicopters.

So, please explain why, when you have men trained to put bombed out airports into operation in hours, why the hell are they not being deployed?

I mean, the heaviest cargo chopper carries maybe 10 tons max payload, vs say a C130 which only needs 1200 feet of open, flat ground and can deliver 35000 pounds a trip?

What the fuck is better about a 10 ton payload versus 30.5 tons?

Seriously?

Next question, what is the benefit of pallets of bottled water vs portable water treatment units that can make 1000 gallons of fresh drinking water 24/7?

I mean, would it not make more logistical sense to be treating water in the disaster zone instead of shipping pallets of water, I mean that space could be used for meds and food, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
I saw on the news the other day that they had the military there using portable water treatment systems to give water to the people so it's being done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No cabinet meeting till monday on the situation in Puerto Rico, the president played golf on Saturday?

And Maria hit the island on the 20th.

Okay, the United States had already been hit with two major hurricanes, and a third was aiming at Puerto Rico, and very little done in prestaging supplies and equipment.

The guy that took over the Katrina response called the administration efforts, as in golf game and no cabinet meeting till Monday among other things, bullshit.

Okay, let me get this straight, news reports coming out of Puerto Rico the day after the storm were bad, the officials in Puerto Rico said things were dire, the President does not hold a crisis meeting with his cabinet till the following Monday?

And nobody in the military can make a direct relief response on the island without presidential authorization.

No power, no water, hospitals running on back up generators with limited fuel supplies for those, and the only agencies capable of dealing with those issues happen to be the US military....

You know, I am sorry to say this, but the die hard supporters of Trump defending his lack of action is proof of one thing, they cannot accept the fact that Trump has fucked up royally.

During Katrina relief, I saw Bush supporters criticizing the administration on these boards, and even President Bush figured out that he had dropped the ball and moved to fix the problem by appointing a general and telling him break whatever rules you have to but fix the problems.

quote:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took when he took office.

Of course, in his defense, the constitution makes no mention of him having the duty to quickly respond to a humanitarian crisis anywhere.

So, he is covered.

I played golf most of last week.

Every one of my customers was well cared for because....my staff does what they do...exceptionally well.

I never had to send one email to my clients telling them that "we're on the job...have no fear"...because....that's what my job was.

And we did it, through my staff....every day.

(Exceptionally well).

Without fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

to address each of your points.

No, you cannot have ships dock in ports clogged with debris and damaged vessels.

You can however, load LCACs on Navy Amphibious assault ships with supplies and have them ferried ashore, to say, a beach...

quote:



You know, kind of what was done after the Haiti Quake and the Tsunami in the Indian ocean.

quote:


Funny thing about those assault ships, they have decks to land helicopters on, or take off from....

quote:


As far as the airports are concerned.

USAF Combat air control units can be either deployed by C130 (runway availability or long enough flat ground) inserted by helicopter or by parachute.

Equipment to clear runways or patch bomb craters can be inserted by parachute (light equipment that can move wind blown debris) or by helicopter, heavy stuff to push dirt into large bomb blasted craters.

In Haiti, after the ground personnel were in place, earth movers came in from a navy ship off shore by helicopter and they had the main airport operational and handling landing of aircraft within 8 hours.

quote:


As it stands now, per the FEMA web page, the ONLY airport handling fixed wing aircraft is San Juan, and the rest are limited to helicopters, and as of yesterday the general in charge said there is a shortage of personnel AND helicopters.

So, please explain why, when you have men trained to put bombed out airports into operation in hours, why the hell are they not being deployed?

I mean, the heaviest cargo chopper carries maybe 10 tons max payload, vs say a C130 which only needs 1200 feet of open, flat ground and can deliver 35000 pounds a trip?

What the fuck is better about a 10 ton payload versus 30.5 tons?

Seriously?

Next question, what is the benefit of pallets of bottled water vs portable water treatment units that can make 1000 gallons of fresh drinking water 24/7?

quote:


I mean, would it not make more logistical sense to be treating water in the disaster zone instead of shipping pallets of water, I mean that space could be used for meds and food, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

to address each of your points.

No, you cannot have ships dock in ports clogged with debris and damaged vessels.

You can however, load LCACs on Navy Amphibious assault ships with supplies and have them ferried ashore, to say, a beach...

So, we send gator navy out of Little Creek to ferry LCACS then do an UREP to move supplies over and load on LCACs to send in to an undeveloped beach instead of a pier with cranes and forklifts.
Well, yeah, we could. Or wait a few days to let the locals get the infrastructure get cleared and move things in bulk.

quote:



You know, kind of what was done after the Haiti Quake and the Tsunami in the Indian ocean.

Which didn't happen with U.S. resiources already deployed to two disaster areas in the continental U.S. already.

quote:


Funny thing about those assault ships, they have decks to land helicopters on, or take off from....

Sending assault ships, for other than supplying some extra manpower, isn't the same as a cargo logistics operation. Much less effective for moving supplies than cranes and heavy machinery.

quote:


As far as the airports are concerned.

USAF Combat air control units can be either deployed by C130 (runway availability or long enough flat ground) inserted by helicopter or by parachute.

Equipment to clear runways or patch bomb craters can be inserted by parachute (light equipment that can move wind blown debris) or by helicopter, heavy stuff to push dirt into large bomb blasted craters.

In Haiti, after the ground personnel were in place, earth movers came in from a navy ship off shore by helicopter and they had the main airport operational and handling landing of aircraft within 8 hours.

And the Haiti relief wasn't concurrent with two disaster areas in the U.S. And U.S. assets were not only available but available from a much closer staging area.

quote:


As it stands now, per the FEMA web page, the ONLY airport handling fixed wing aircraft is San Juan, and the rest are limited to helicopters, and as of yesterday the general in charge said there is a shortage of personnel AND helicopters.

So, please explain why, when you have men trained to put bombed out airports into operation in hours, why the hell are they not being deployed?

I mean, the heaviest cargo chopper carries maybe 10 tons max payload, vs say a C130 which only needs 1200 feet of open, flat ground and can deliver 35000 pounds a trip?

What the fuck is better about a 10 ton payload versus 30.5 tons?

Seriously?

Next question, what is the benefit of pallets of bottled water vs portable water treatment units that can make 1000 gallons of fresh drinking water 24/7?

FEMA buys open market. A water treatment system is a contract purchase item. Much faster to send tanked or bottled water at first. Yeah, the SeaBees could have a water treatment system up in 48 hours if and when authorized. So could the Army Corps of Engineers but as the gear would be coming by maritime vessel; SeeBees would probably take the lead.

quote:


I mean, would it not make more logistical sense to be treating water in the disaster zone instead of shipping pallets of water, I mean that space could be used for meds and food, right?

Overall, I'm on board with your points. But, I see the logistics a bit differently.

On water treatment,
A system needs be geared to the hazards of the water to be treated. Desalinization is a very energy intensive propositon. Biohazards take a bit of time for throughput to come to full volume as slow sand filtration is the best bet. Turbidity is an issue post disaster and you need a steady supply of flocculant to take care of that. Volatile organics (gasoline in the water, etc) is quite the problem with treating water after a natural disaster. i.e. Texas boil water notices after the hurricane and suggestions of using bottled water for cooking and drinking and the tap water for bathing and washing. My cousin in Seascape TX says the tap water still smells like motor oil and the flooding has been gone a good while.

All in all, tossing containers on a container ship is fast. Having the infrastructure to unload ready is the issue. Hand loading small payloads vs concentrating efforts on getting the heavy machinery back into play is a judgement call. I'd send bottled water and Daytrex over small and maximize getting the bulk cargo unloading equipment back in play.
After cargo is flowing, get electric plant up next. You need the electric plant up so you can get the water treatment plant up.

Get public health testing wells. Educate the public on what debris can be burned for fuel and what will emit toxins when burned.

So many details, so clueless the bureaucrats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

to address each of your points.

No, you cannot have ships dock in ports clogged with debris and damaged vessels.

You can however, load LCACs on Navy Amphibious assault ships with supplies and have them ferried ashore, to say, a beach...

So, we send gator navy out of Little Creek to ferry LCACS then do an UREP to move supplies over and load on LCACs to send in to an undeveloped beach instead of a pier with cranes and forklifts.
Well, yeah, we could. Or wait a few days to let the locals get the infrastructure get cleared and move things in bulk.

quote:



You know, kind of what was done after the Haiti Quake and the Tsunami in the Indian ocean.

Which didn't happen with U.S. resiources already deployed to two disaster areas in the continental U.S. already.

quote:


Funny thing about those assault ships, they have decks to land helicopters on, or take off from....

Sending assault ships, for other than supplying some extra manpower, isn't the same as a cargo logistics operation. Much less effective for moving supplies than cranes and heavy machinery.

quote:


As far as the airports are concerned.

USAF Combat air control units can be either deployed by C130 (runway availability or long enough flat ground) inserted by helicopter or by parachute.

Equipment to clear runways or patch bomb craters can be inserted by parachute (light equipment that can move wind blown debris) or by helicopter, heavy stuff to push dirt into large bomb blasted craters.

In Haiti, after the ground personnel were in place, earth movers came in from a navy ship off shore by helicopter and they had the main airport operational and handling landing of aircraft within 8 hours.

And the Haiti relief wasn't concurrent with two disaster areas in the U.S. And U.S. assets were not only available but available from a much closer staging area.

quote:


As it stands now, per the FEMA web page, the ONLY airport handling fixed wing aircraft is San Juan, and the rest are limited to helicopters, and as of yesterday the general in charge said there is a shortage of personnel AND helicopters.

So, please explain why, when you have men trained to put bombed out airports into operation in hours, why the hell are they not being deployed?

I mean, the heaviest cargo chopper carries maybe 10 tons max payload, vs say a C130 which only needs 1200 feet of open, flat ground and can deliver 35000 pounds a trip?

What the fuck is better about a 10 ton payload versus 30.5 tons?

Seriously?

Next question, what is the benefit of pallets of bottled water vs portable water treatment units that can make 1000 gallons of fresh drinking water 24/7?

FEMA buys open market. A water treatment system is a contract purchase item. Much faster to send tanked or bottled water at first. Yeah, the SeaBees could have a water treatment system up in 48 hours if and when authorized. So could the Army Corps of Engineers but as the gear would be coming by maritime vessel; SeeBees would probably take the lead.

quote:


I mean, would it not make more logistical sense to be treating water in the disaster zone instead of shipping pallets of water, I mean that space could be used for meds and food, right?

Overall, I'm on board with your points. But, I see the logistics a bit differently.

On water treatment,
A system needs be geared to the hazards of the water to be treated. Desalinization is a very energy intensive propositon. Biohazards take a bit of time for throughput to come to full volume as slow sand filtration is the best bet. Turbidity is an issue post disaster and you need a steady supply of flocculant to take care of that. Volatile organics (gasoline in the water, etc) is quite the problem with treating water after a natural disaster. i.e. Texas boil water notices after the hurricane and suggestions of using bottled water for cooking and drinking and the tap water for bathing and washing. My cousin in Seascape TX says the tap water still smells like motor oil and the flooding has been gone a good while.

All in all, tossing containers on a container ship is fast. Having the infrastructure to unload ready is the issue. Hand loading small payloads vs concentrating efforts on getting the heavy machinery back into play is a judgement call. I'd send bottled water and Daytrex over small and maximize getting the bulk cargo unloading equipment back in play.
After cargo is flowing, get electric plant up next. You need the electric plant up so you can get the water treatment plant up.

Get public health testing wells. Educate the public on what debris can be burned for fuel and what will emit toxins when burned.

So many details, so clueless the bureaucrats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Bounty, answer one fucking simple question.

Why the fuck was US response to the Earthquake in Haiti and the tsunami in the Indian ocean faster than getting relief to Puerto Rico?

Hell, Bush ordered a fucking carrier group on combat operations in the Persian gulf to India for that effort.

It was five fucking days before Trump ordered the USS Mercy dispatched and that was after Hillary Clinton and a number of congressmen of both parties called on him to do so.

In the case of Haiti, it was dispatched within 36 hours.

And do not say it was because Maria was still messing with the east coast. That is the lamest excuse on the book, if the US navy ships cannot deal with a category 2 hurricane at sea, then we need to scrap every fucking ship in the fucking fleet and start over.

Hell, we blew the fuck out of Baghdad airport when we invaded Iraq, but as soon as it was taken, the US air force moved combat air control teams in there and had the airport operating at a level comparable to JFK international within 12 hours, and that included patching the goddamn runways.

Are you going to sit there and say that a hurricane fucked up an airport worse than repeated air strikes with runway cratering bombs?

What about the fact that the Army and Navy have units with the only job of purifying water, complete with portable water purification equipment, have not been dispatched to Puerto Rico, is it really cheaper to send plane loads of bottled water?

Or lets address the fact that every military branch has units that can set up very large portable power generators to run hospitals and could be sent in, and the hospitals are still running on back up power and starting to run out of fuel for those generators.

And then of course there are the trump supporters on this board that say this is all Puerto Rico's fault, they should have stocked up on a month's supply of food and water or the entire 3.1 million of them should have evacuated.

But hey, the whole thing is a democrat party propaganda party.

FYI, the US Air Force has nine active duty Combat Air Control squadrons, there are nine air ports on Puerto Rico, 8 regional that could handle C130 Hercules aircraft, and I can attest that none of those units have been deployed and the large number of 130's are sitting idle. The base 15 miles from my house has four 130 squadrons shooting touch and goes and have been since the day after Maria hit.

Another point, before you try and claim the smaller 130's would not be enough, a 130 can land, unload a full cargo and be back in the air in less than 15 minutes, and in a hot combat zone, they can shave it to 10 (falling mortars and arty tend to be a great motivator for fast work.)

So, 8 airports running nothing but VFR daylight ops, with even half the 130 fleet operating can easily move and deliver 1,120,000 pounds of cargo per day per field.

So, tell me again, why our esteemed president has not utilized the fleet of 130's? or even part of them?

Shit they were used after the tsunami and the Haiti quake.

I believe that there are Constitutional restraints on sending troops to States & territories that don't apply to foreign nations. Meaning our President can freely invade Haiti, but can't send troops to Puerto Rico until they're asked for by the Governor.

Also, if fuel is already an issue, but there are more than ten thousand shipping containers full of food, water, and supplies waiting at the island's ports, then the 130s can't do much to help.

There are constitutional restraints against using troops on US soil, specifically the states, as law enforcement unless martial law has been declared or in a time of war.


The US territories are a different matter, Federal troops can be used for any necessary function per request of governor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

FR
I haven't offered any opinion on any of this because I have read so many conflicting reports, and am myself totally unaware as to the logistics behind a massive undertaking of this sort. So i don't really know what to think, other than feel grief regarding the tragedy of it. But there is one thing that I do question, and I haven't seen anything debunking this or explaining this statement-it was in fact several days before Trump held meetings regarding the situation, which I would think would be a crucial first step. True or no?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Yes, he declared an emergency after the storm, to get funds flowing.
But the days following it was NK and NFL tweets....then he said the shipping companies didnt want him to waive the jones act, then finally thursday the ships were allowed.
I have a timeline somewhere. I mentioned it in a few posts too over the last week. I have a happy evening planned so I will post it later

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One need not be "in the know" to notice the remarkable gap in competence as revealed by relative performance -- or lack thereof.

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ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

FR
I haven't offered any opinion on any of this because I have read so many conflicting reports, and am myself totally unaware as to the logistics behind a massive undertaking of this sort. So i don't really know what to think, other than feel grief regarding the tragedy of it. But there is one thing that I do question, and I haven't seen anything debunking this or explaining this statement-it was in fact several days before Trump held meetings regarding the situation, which I would think would be a crucial first step. True or no?

That's what's reported.

History shows (all too often) that what we "know" today....is refuted by facts...years later.

Sit in that chair.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

FR
I haven't offered any opinion on any of this because I have read so many conflicting reports, and am myself totally unaware as to the logistics behind a massive undertaking of this sort. So i don't really know what to think, other than feel grief regarding the tragedy of it. But there is one thing that I do question, and I haven't seen anything debunking this or explaining this statement-it was in fact several days before Trump held meetings regarding the situation, which I would think would be a crucial first step. True or no?

That's what's reported.

History shows (all too often) that what we "know" today....is refuted by facts...years later.

Sit in that chair.

I don't need to sit in that chair to have an opinion of his performance. It's my responsibility as a citizen to question my elected officials. And information gathering is a first step.

I am reserving my judgement on his handling of this affair, as I don't know enough about this sort of thing to make a proper judgment. History will tell whether he screwed the pooch on this one or not.

I hope he didn't because lives are at stake. But I have a very poor opinion of Trump, for many reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with his handling of Puerto Rico, so that hope is not a real high one. But for the sake of Puerto Rico, I hope I am wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

FR
I haven't offered any opinion on any of this because I have read so many conflicting reports, and am myself totally unaware as to the logistics behind a massive undertaking of this sort. So i don't really know what to think, other than feel grief regarding the tragedy of it. But there is one thing that I do question, and I haven't seen anything debunking this or explaining this statement-it was in fact several days before Trump held meetings regarding the situation, which I would think would be a crucial first step. True or no?

That's what's reported.

History shows (all too often) that what we "know" today....is refuted by facts...years later.

Sit in that chair.

I don't need to sit in that chair to have an opinion of his performance. It's my responsibility as a citizen to question my elected officials. And information gathering is a first step.

I am reserving my judgement on his handling of this affair, as I don't know enough about this sort of thing to make a proper judgment. History will tell whether he screwed the pooch on this one or not.

I hope he didn't because lives are at stake. But I have a very poor opinion of Trump, for many reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with his handling of Puerto Rico, so that hope is not a real high one. But for the sake of Puerto Rico, I hope I am wrong.