RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:14:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji No compromise. None. It is a right. I'll make you a deal just like I offered to KD. You have the right to your body. You sign an agreement to me to have it where and when I want it for any purpose I want it and I will consider a compromise you offer. As I said. The amendment does not protect "variety of guns", as well as "unlimited number of guns". So people will still have guns. Technically, the only compromise they have is that, maybe they can't get their favourite model of a specific gun anymore. And since I am proposing the making of guns that could do most harm to be made unavailable for sale. So in your analogy, if I give up rights to my body, then even if someone wants rights to my body, the fair exchange would be, as long as it does not involve physically harming or emotionally harming me. That would be the equivalent terms.

Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:16:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji It doesn't matter whether it's a bolt action or a semi-auto action. A hunter goes to a gun store and buys what he/she wants. It's a right not a privilege. What happens in the field has no bearing on anything pertaining to this discussion. That is not true that a hunter goes and buy what he wants. As I said, there are already guns that are not legal for purchases so stores do not have them. So there are already gun restrictions in place. Because the amendment does not protect the "Variety of guns" you can have access to. And those laws are obscene on many levels. First, it's a right the government doesn't have the right to infringe upon, although they do and it's just as obscene as thought crimes the left so,loves. Second, do you really think those guns aren't available within the criminal element? All the laws do is keep the law abiding person less armed than the criminal. I could go on, but that's enough.

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:18:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji And those laws are obscene on many levels. But they have respected the 2nd amendment. And made laws that does not trespass the second amendment. If it trespass the 2nd amendment, then how could it be legal right? Everyone can read the second amendment and clearly see what it says. It doesn't say "unlimited arms" or "ALL varieties of arms". It simply says, you have the right to own arms. When it comes to making law, when things are not specific. This means they can only follow the generic meaning. So the right to own arms is always protected and respected.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:21:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji See above in my response to Greta. If you'd like to make a ban proposal in the future, start with the trucks that killed....what...60 in one shot and work down to the frying pan you can read about on Drudge right now that a woman used to kill her husband. And I come from a country where Trucks are literally banned from certain areas now. Crowded Areas. High Traffic Areas. So what the US can do is do the same. Ban Trucks from Cities. And Ban Semi-Auto weapons from Cities. Only allowed near forests where they hunt deers or whatever, but no semi-auto weapons should be permitted for sale in cities or near cities. They can do something practical that works. So this means that, perhaps people living near hunting grounds can start a business of semi-auto gun storage specially for the hunters, as if this hunter lives in the city, he can't bring home his semi-auto with him. And he can go back and collect it any time for hunting season. So only revolvers for self defense but criminals will have automatics.

Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:24:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji And those laws are obscene on many levels. But they have respected the 2nd amendment. And made laws that does not trespass the second amendment. If it trespass the 2nd amendment, then how could it be legal right? Everyone can read the second amendment and clearly see what it says. It doesn't say "unlimited arms" or "ALL varieties of arms". It simply says, you have the right to own arms. When it comes to making law, when things are not specific. This means they can only follow the generic meaning. So the right to own arms is always protected and respected. So what you are saying, and speak right up,if I'm wrong, is that the government has the right to make laws against the first amendment pertaining to the internet, the telephone, the computer, the blog, and various other assorted things because they did not exist when the Bill of Rights was adopted. No, I say your arguments are silly and the fact the the laws actually passed at some time is obscene. It very well may be that it's against the law but it's still an obscene infringment on rights and shouldn't be accepted.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:26:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse And that is why hunters need a semi automatic rifle to hunt. So you are saying in very very typical circumstances. After the first shot misses. The second or third or fourth or fifth shot will definitely hit that same deer who ran off? I personally think that is cheating. Not fair play to the innocent deer. I think hunters should play one shot one kill. If you miss, practice harder next time! Plus I am sure you guys have scopes and would camp quietly and snipe the deer and that's how you get them. And if the first shot wounds but the deer is able to run you should let it crawl off and suffer a lingering death, now that is what I call unsportsmanlike.

Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji And those laws are obscene on many levels. But they have respected the 2nd amendment. And made laws that does not trespass the second amendment. If it trespass the 2nd amendment, then how could it be legal right? Everyone can read the second amendment and clearly see what it says. It doesn't say "unlimited arms" or "ALL varieties of arms". It simply says, you have the right to own arms. When it comes to making law, when things are not specific. This means they can only follow the generic meaning. So the right to own arms is always protected and respected. Look, I've been thrown in jail in Singapore for trying to leave the country with one handgun bullet in my carry on lugauge. I was in Booki Bato jail (sp). I know how warped the thinking is there and because of that I don't deny you are inculcated in that thought process. So let me just say that no argument you have supersedes freedom and individual rights. No compromise.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Would you not agree that a pump or semi 12 gauge shotgun with bird shot would be a better intruder defense weapon? Withe the AR 15 you could easily miss and shoot through walls killing your child for instance... let common sense rule. As far as the rest of your post... removing guns...especially assault type weapons would not stop the killing but slow it down considerably. Use the UK again for example... yes bombs kill and so do vehicles...but as we have seen knives are hard you use in mass murders. Butch No I wouldn't agree. I have had the experience of having been in a situation where a perp was holding a woman hostage with a knife to her throat. A shotgun would have been totally useless. A 9mm semi-auto and a triple tap put him down with no harm to the woman at all. A guy with the back of his skull blown out doesn't do much harm to others. In case you're wondering, he was on PCP, there was no way to defuse the situation through talk. And for all the BLM types, he was not a minority. I don't agree that removing guns would slow the killings. For one there are too many black market guns already in place among gangs. For another, if all the guns were somehow rounded up the mass killing types would just step up to more devastating weapons. ISIS has certainly proven that's not difficult to do.

Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:30:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse And that is why hunters need a semi automatic rifle to hunt. So you are saying in very very typical circumstances. After the first shot misses. The second or third or fourth or fifth shot will definitely hit that same deer who ran off? I personally think that is cheating. Not fair play to the innocent deer. I think hunters should play one shot one kill. If you miss, practice harder next time! Plus I am sure you guys have scopes and would camp quietly and snipe the deer and that's how you get them. And if the first shot wounds but the deer is able to run you should let it crawl off and suffer a lingering death, now that is what I call unsportsmanlike. With all due respect to the deer, the hunter and you, who the fuck cares. One hunting field trip has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

kdsub -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:30:37 PM)
Yea... great shot... there is little spread in less than 20 feet with a shotgun... would gave done an even better job and not taking the chance of killing someone else with a miss.

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:31:19 PM)
FR Some republicans open to ban bump stocks Oh fantastic!!! Some common sense has prevail! That is a good start! Those "bump stocks" are completely unnecessary right? Just freaking ban those for a start. I think it's sane and rational and fair to look at what is not necessary and ban them.

kdsub -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:33:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 FR Some republicans open to ban bump stocks Oh fantastic!!! Some common sense has prevail! That is a good start! Those "bump stocks" are completely unnecessary right? Just freaking ban those for a start. No they will wait to hear what the NRA has to say then that will be it... you know... give a common sense inch and the libs will take a mile and all their guns.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:34:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Everyone can read the second amendment and clearly see what it says. It doesn't say "unlimited arms" or "ALL varieties of arms". It simply says, you have the right to own arms. Greta It also doesn't say there is a limit on the arms that are allowed. In the US if the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit something, then it is considered to be legal.

Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:35:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Look, I've been thrown in jail in Singapore for trying to leave the country with one handgun bullet in my carry on lugauge. Hey I would have been thrown into jail for having pepper spray. So we locals know that things like bullets, pepper spray, banned things, are just not allowed. I am sorry you got in trouble for that. We just don't like people having any form of potential weapons at all. And our crime and death by criminal act statistics correlated with our safety methods. I just never understood the idea of people preferring to live in a more dangerous environment. Rather than give up insignificant freedoms that enhance over all safety for all, that does not even affect one's life. I don't feel like not being able to touch a bullet or own a gun has made my life limited in any way. If Singaporean wants to hunt, they can go Malaysia to do so.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:37:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yea... great shot... there is little spread in less than 20 feet with a shotgun... would gave done an even better job and not taking the chance of killing someone else with a miss. He was behind the woman he was holding, and the distance was about 25 ft.

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Nnanji I would understand your position IF gun control would not work.... but it does and has been proven over and over. Do you know there were more gun homicides in St Louis alone last year than in all of the United Kingdom. So the argument that gun control will not reduce gun related injury and death is bull... What it comes down to is are we willing to sacrifice your pleasure in owning certain type of weapons to reduce mass murders. You don't meed an ar 15 for home defense or hunting... it is only for pleasure... can't you give that up to save lives? Butch Wrong on several counts. First it is proven, and I have provided the proof to you repeatedly that for every crime committed with a firearm 4 are stopped. Second smaller people are much better off with a.223 than with a 12ga. St. Louis is the only place where gun control was lessened and crime went up. Just like NY is the only place were it wasn't lessened. More typical are Chicago and DC where they went to the max on gun control and crime skyrocketed once they made the streets save for criminals.

Nnanji -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:37:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 FR Some republicans open to ban bump stocks Oh fantastic!!! Some common sense has prevail! That is a good start! Those "bump stocks" are completely unnecessary right? Just freaking ban those for a start. No they will wait to hear what the NRA has to say then that will be it... you know... give a common sense inch and the libs will take a mile and all their guns. There are literally thousands of commen sense inches made illigal that didn't stop what happened and never will. Gun control is only about people control for leftist fascist goons. No more compromise with rights. Just as strongly I say no compromise with the 1st Amendment or any other Amendment including those that recognized the rights of minorities.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Only if you think one life is not worth saving... I would say there would be a good chance that 59 lives would not have been taken if the type of weapons used were not readily available... Sure he could have tried other ways... but guns were his first and effective choice. It is much harder to get explosives now days then legal killing weapons. Butch Not at the expense of everyone else's rights. Sorry...but if that life was, cars would have been gone a LONNNG time ago.

kdsub -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:41:20 PM)
Tell that to the three children shot her in St louis in the last two weeks

BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/4/2017 8:41:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Guns prevent a million crimes in this country per year. So NRA should do a study on specifically WHICH TYPE of guns prevented crimes. And the ones that isn't necessary to that. Ban it for sale. I mean for self-protection, most people aren't gonna carry a semi-automatic rifle everywhere with them on a daily basis right? Highly doubt the ones that prevent deaths on daily basis by ordinary citizens are precisely what Las Vegas killer used. There is a rational way of doing this to offer more protection. And I know the proposed solution needs to come from NRA. Not the Dems. Because NRA would understand the position gun owners and their needs the best and able to tweak the whole security of gun owning better. Every type is used.

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