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bounty44 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:14:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The NRA announced today that it would support tighter restrictions on bump stocks. Happy, Greta?

Now find a Republican willing and able to get a bill passed.


I think I read a little headline earlier today exactly to that effect, that is, that some republican was either introducing a bill, or working with democrats on one.

and that doesn't really prevent the event itself does it? it only changes the firing rate, which I presume some motivated killer could have worked around somehow.




BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:15:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The strongest language used in any Amendments was in the first and second.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Again, Congress shall make no law. Shall not be infringed. These are strong words in the Bill of Rights, and easily interpreted.

Congress does not have the power to "reasonably" limit freedom of speech. Nor does it have the Constitutional authority to decide what's reasonable in terms of guns.



You can post all these stuffs all you want but clearly there are restrictions in place somehow. And for them to be in place, it has to meet and satisfy the definition of the amendment. And it has to be implemented in a way where it cannot trespass the amendment.

And thank gawd for restrictions to fully automatic weapons, or else perhaps this las vegas shooting will be worst. As it has just shown us how even modifying close to automatic speed can do so much damage by one person. In just 11 minutes. 500 people wounded.

This is NOT okay. If you think it's okay, that is your prerogative. But I hope your supreme court or congress will see that this is not okay and they need a solution.





The fact that they get away with things doesn't mean they did it right.




JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:18:38 PM)

No, what happened in Vegas isn't OK. And still doesn't make any damn sense.

But Congressional intervention is unconstitutional, without a new Amendment.




BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:19:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This is NOT okay. If you think it's okay, that is prerogative. But I hope your supreme court or congress will see that this is not okay and they need a solution.



greta, youre getting kinda maddening---with the possible exceptions of the lefties who think its okay to kill conservatives, NO ONE thinks this is okay.

not being able to "fix" things doesn't mean you are okay with them. I understand nuances in English might be a challenge for you, but youre way off base with this one.




She has never been hunting but thinks she is an expert, and never been attacked but thinks she knows all about self defense.




JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:24:28 PM)

House Majority Whip Steve Scalise has a message for those who expected him to change since a bullet fired by a would-be assassin shattered his body and left him at the edge of death: He may be a different man — but not in the ways his political foes might wish.

The Louisiana Republican said in a Wednesday interview with The Washington Post that he is committed to continuing in office and maintaining his leadership role, working as hard as ever to advance the GOP agenda even as he continues an arduous rehabilitation.

And, days after another mass shooting thrust gun violence back into the national spotlight, Scalise said he remains a strong proponent of gun rights. Those who thought that his June 14 shooting, at a Republican lawmakers' practice for a charity baseball game, would prompt a conversion on the issue are sorely mistaken, he said.

Related: [‘Miracles really do happen’: Rep. Steve Scalise returns to Congress 15 weeks after he was shot]

"That usually comes from people on the far left who already want gun control on their own, and they want somehow some transformational event to happen that's going to convert somebody's political viewpoints that are based in decades of understanding and studying the history of our country," Scalise said.



Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) returned to the House of Representatives on Sept. 28, more than three months after being shot during practice for the Congressional Baseball Game. Here are the highlights. (U.S. House of Representatives)
"Anybody that wants to say, 'Okay, somehow the idea of taking away people's guns is an answer to this' . . . they don't understand, number one, what the Second Amendment stands for and why it's in our Bill of Rights," he added.

Scalise has had a careful public reemergence over the past week, making a surprise return to Capitol Hill last Thursday, walking onto the House floor with the aid of crutches to a raucous welcome marked by universal applause and plenty of tears.

In remarks to colleagues that day and in subsequent interviews with CBS's "60 Minutes" and Politico, he recounted harrowing details from the day when James T. Hodgkinson, an unemployed 66-year-old Illinois man who had expressed public malice toward Republicans, opened fire at a ballpark in Alexandria, Va.

Scalise was struck in the hip, prompting immense blood loss that would have killed him had it not been for an emergency tourniquet applied by fellow lawmaker and retired combat surgeon Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio), a swift helicopter evacuation to MedStar Washington Hospital Center and the efforts of trauma surgeons there.


Related: [Why a single gunshot to Steve Scalise’s hip can be a life-threatening injury]

In his office Wednesday morning, Scalise sat amid reminders of that day — the motorized scooter he now relies on, a personalized Army jacket gifted by Wenstrup, a painting of his colleagues kneeling in prayer for him — and reflected on his rehabilitation and his life ahead while sipping a cup of chicory coffee.

During the nearly 40-minute interview, he expanded on a theme of his speech last week: the bottomless font of generosity and goodwill he received from the public after the shooting. Particularly in the past six weeks, as he focused more and more on his return to the Capitol, Scalise said that he came to realize that a key problem for the institution is the way members disparage it.

"If you had a job and every day you're going back home and telling all your friends how horrible your job is and how horrible your employer is, after a while, they're going to start believing you," he said. "And then at some point, they're going to start questioning you and say, 'Why, if it's so bad, are you doing it?' "

He said he wants to spend his next few months delivering a message to his colleagues: "Hold your head up a little bit more, have some self-respect for what we're a part of. I mean, there are not many people that get to serve in the United States House of Representatives. I fought really hard to win a seat in Congress, and everybody else did, too."

While he was away, Congress continued to stumble along. A bid to repeal the Affordable Care Act, a longtime GOP goal, fell apart in the Senate. A sweeping effort to rewrite the tax code faces major obstacles. No major legislation has passed, and the institution's approval rating has dropped to near-historic lows.

Related: [Scalise was in ‘imminent risk of death’ when he arrived at hospital, surgeon says]

Yet Scalise found through his near-death experience that people may despise today's dysfunction but care about the institution. The thoughts and prayers of strangers and world leaders convinced him that the public cares and that if more lawmakers realized that, they would reach more fruitful outcomes.

"If we care about it more, then I think that will reflect better upon the work we do and on how people view Congress as a whole," he said.

Scalise made clear, however, that there is a difference between treating colleagues on the opposite side of the political spectrum with decency and respect and reaching agreement with them on divisive issues.

He said he remains as committed as ever to repealing the Affordable Care Act, even after some of its supporters highlighted the expensive care he received as a reason to preserve it. And when asked about Sunday's shooting in Las Vegas that left 58 people dead and hundreds injured, he showed little interest in an immediate conversation about gun restrictions.

"I think it's a shame that the day somebody hears about a shooting, the first thing they think about is, 'How can I go promote my gun control agenda?' as opposed to saying, 'How do I go pray and help the families that are suffering?' " he said.

On Tuesday and again during the interview, Scalise called on Americans to donate blood, recalling how transfusions saved his life as well as the lives of victims in Las Vegas. He said it is premature to consider a legislative response to Sunday's tragedy, including a potential ban on the accessories the shooter may have used to mimic machine-gun fire.

"Let's go and help the grieving families and those that are fighting for their lives before we start rushing to any kind of conclusion," he said. "Let's actually let the facts come out, and that's where I am."

Scalise said he never questioned whether he would return to his job as the House GOP's vote counter, a physically and emotionally demanding post that requires being in tune with the needs and concerns of more than 200 lawmakers across the geographic and ideological spectrum. Never did House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) or another colleague suggest that he might step aide, he said, nor did the notion cross his mind.

And although his brush with tragedy has clearly raised his public profile and elevated his colleagues' esteem, Scalise said he has not dwelled on the effect the shooting might have on his political trajectory — sticking to a personal philosophy he has maintained since serving as a state legislator.

"A bunch of people in my freshman class wanted to be governor. None of them became governor," he said. "If you're trying to get somewhere else, the best thing to do is just do your job really well. And then if opportunities open up down the road, you'll have a better chance of getting there."

He is now out of the inpatient rehabilitation facility where he spent much of the past two months since he left the hospital. Over the weekend, he made his first trip to his home state since the shooting, attending a Louisiana State University football game as an honored guest. But Scalise remains faced with significant physical challenges: His left foot, in particular, has yet to respond to therapy, and he has been spending at least three hours a week trying to regain his mobility.

"They feel very confident I'll be able to walk again on my own without the aid of crutches," he said. "Whether I can run is an open question right now. Some of it depends on whether my left foot comes back. And so I still say prayers that it does. But that's something I've got to find out in the future, and if it doesn't, I'll just find other things to do."

Having to rely on crutches and a scooter has been an undeniable setback for a backslapping lawmaker accustomed to roaming the House floor, buttonholing colleagues and winning votes face to face.

"I can't do that effectively right now," Scalise acknowledged. "But the good news is, they bring members over to where I'm sitting. And, you know, members seem a lot more sympathetic to the conversation I have with them, so I've gotten a lot more yeses on a per capita basis than before. But I know that shelf life will run out."

Washington Post link




Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The NRA announced today that it would support tighter restrictions on bump stocks. Happy, Greta?

Now find a Republican willing and able to get a bill passed.


I think I read a little headline earlier today exactly to that effect, that is, that some republican was either introducing a bill, or working with democrats on one.

and that doesn't really prevent the event itself does it? it only changes the firing rate, which I presume some motivated killer could have worked around somehow.


Any small move will reduce life taken. So if he didn't have bump stocks, maybe less than 50 would have been killed before he was found and stopped. The speed and number of bullets he is capable of spraying within 11 minutes matters. IF they can slow that down to less. It just means, less people dies or get injured. Less bullets.

And I think with any incident, whatever the bad guy did to work around not having bump stocks, you learn and then close that hole too. I mean, the whole point is to learn from the incident and then figure out how can this be prevented.

Less lives taken is better than nothing. It's something. It's an improvement. Because no matter what, when you got a rogue gunmen. You just hope he doesn't have a machine gun.




Edwird -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:28:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The strongest language used in any Amendments was in the first and second.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Again, Congress shall make no law. Shall not be infringed. These are strong words in the Bill of Rights, and easily interpreted.

Congress does not have the power to "reasonably" limit freedom of speech. Nor does it have the Constitutional authority to decide what's reasonable in terms of guns.

The language in those amendments being so absolute also means they are the most unrealistic.

The SC has ruled on yelling Fire! (false alarm) in a crowded theater, etc. for a reason. In the absolute terms you are insisting on, if local law allows an usher telling someone who's standing up in the theater yelling any kind of nonsense for 20 minutes straight, ruining the experience for all others, to invite him to leave, that is "abridging the freedom of speech."

So would be any law prohibiting firearms to repeat-offender violent crime felons. So would be the restriction of firearms to some mentally ill, etc. Or carrying a gun into a court room.

While we're at it, Howitzers or in fact all artillery are arms, RPGs and mortars are arms. etc.

The second amendment, as written, doesn't allow for these or any other considerations.

So I'll just carry my side weapon flame thrower into any damn battery factory or oil refinery I please, and don't bother me about it.




bounty44 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:29:32 PM)

maybe, or as I said, maybe it just means he finds another workaround to achieve his same end, one that's immune to legislation.







Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
She has never been hunting but thinks she is an expert, and never been attacked but thinks she knows all about self defense.

I don't need to be an expert to know that in old days America, you guys didn't have all the sophisticated weapons needed for hunting that you guys have today. So whatever they used in the past should be good enough to hunt for food. They survived well on it. Infact, I can already see that the second amendment refers to the ARMS of whichever era this amendment was made. And maybe all the unlimited guns available for purchase should be limited to guns from that era. That wouldn't trespass the amendment too. I'm totally all for keeping to the amendment, but I know we can have the amendment and not have unnecessary weapons at easy access.





BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:31:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The NRA announced today that it would support tighter restrictions on bump stocks. Happy, Greta?

Now find a Republican willing and able to get a bill passed.


I think I read a little headline earlier today exactly to that effect, that is, that some republican was either introducing a bill, or working with democrats on one.

and that doesn't really prevent the event itself does it? it only changes the firing rate, which I presume some motivated killer could have worked around somehow.


Any small move will reduce life taken. So if he didn't have bump stocks, maybe less than 50 would have been killed before he was found and stopped. The speed and number of bullets he is capable of spraying within 11 minutes matters. IF they can slow that down to less. It just means, less people dies or get injured. Less bullets.

And I think with any incident, whatever the bad guy did to work around not having bump stocks, you learn and then close that hole too. I mean, the whole point is to learn from the incident and then figure out how can this be prevented.

Less lives taken is better than nothing. It's something. It's an improvement. Because no matter what, when you got a rogue gunmen. You just hope he doesn't have a machine gun.

You do know that it hasn't been determined (or at least not released) what gun or guns were used.
Maybe you should have facts before you pontificate.




Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:33:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You do know that it hasn't been determined (or at least not released) what gun or guns were used.
Maybe you should have facts before you pontificate.

It was already determined he used bump stocks. He had 12 guns with bump stocks. And it was already determined that he used semi-automatic guns with bump stocks. That's all over the media.




Wayward5oul -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:38:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I'm totally all for keeping to the amendment, but I know we can have the amendment and not have unnecessary weapons at easy access.



I know I've pointed this out before, but you do realize that you don't actually live in the U.S., right? You just like to think so on here.




Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:45:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I'm totally all for keeping to the amendment, but I know we can have the amendment and not have unnecessary weapons at easy access.

I know I've pointed this out before, but you do realize that you don't actually live in the U.S., right? You just like to think so on here.

Yes, but you know what? I couldn't care less about any death in Europe because they support Islamic Terrorism and refuse to change laws to protect their people from Islamic Terrorism. So whenever a European Islamic Terrorism happens, it's the same as when you guys have your own people mass shooting alot of people. Except, I think there is more hope for US to actually do something about that. Than for Europe to ever stop supporting their Muslim brothers and enable them to continue their actions.

I may not live in the US, but my brother is in the US. And he is family that could be harm by your gun laws. So it still affects me. And I was just thinking about the other festival he was targeting which would be right up the kind of festival my brother would attend.




JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:45:42 PM)

Yet, in 200+ years, the Second Amendment has not been repealed nor amended. And any court case finding a defendant guilty of a felony constitutes the due process necessary to take away that defendant's rights (subject to appeals, of course).




Wayward5oul -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:47:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I'm totally all for keeping to the amendment, but I know we can have the amendment and not have unnecessary weapons at easy access.

I know I've pointed this out before, but you do realize that you don't actually live in the U.S., right? You just like to think so on here.

Yes, but you know what? I couldn't care less about any death in Europe because they support Islamic Terrorism and refuse to change laws to protect their people from Islamic Terrorism. So whenever a European Islamic Terrorism happens, it's the same as when you guys have your own people mass shooting alot of people. Except, I think there is more hope for US to actually do something about that. Than for Europe to ever stop supporting their Muslim brothers and enable them to continue their actions.

I may not live in the US, but my brother is in the US. And he is family that could be harm by your gun laws.

I was referring to your use of the word "we", as if you were part of the US citizenry. Which you are not.




JVoV -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:52:10 PM)

Maybe she's French? They say we a lot. They just spell it funny.

Oui. Which I'm pretty sure is part of the Morris Day & The Time song "Jungle Love". Oui oui oh.




Greta75 -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:52:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
I was referring to your use of the word "we", as if you were part of the US citizenry. Which you are not.

That's just my way of using an alternative word to "you guys". It's like if I gave a presentation to a company I don't even work in, I could have used "we" too.




Edwird -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:55:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Yet, in 200+ years, the Second Amendment has not been repealed nor amended. And any court case finding a defendant guilty of a felony constitutes the due process necessary to take away that defendant's rights (subject to appeals, of course).


Quote in the second amendment where it says "except for due process infringement"?

You are the one insisting on absolutism here, and the bolded sentence contradicts that.




Wayward5oul -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 5:56:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Maybe she's French? They say we a lot. They just spell it funny.

Oui. Which I'm pretty sure is part of the Morris Day & The Time song "Jungle Love". Oui oui oh.

[sm=Groaner.gif]




BamaD -> RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now (10/5/2017 6:01:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

maybe, or as I said, maybe it just means he finds another workaround to achieve his same end, one that's immune to legislation.





As pointed out today he could have done the same thing with a rubber band.




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