Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Trump -- Socialist Dictator


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Trump -- Socialist Dictator Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 3:51:05 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Puerto Rico, ravaged by Hurricane Maria on Sept. 20, is dealing with a disaster worsened by the long-term debt crisis that led it to declare a form of bankruptcy this year. The commonwealth’s government for decades has been plagued by budget deficits and borrowed $74 billion in a spree enabled by a yield-hungry Wall Street.

“We are going to work something out” on Puerto Rico’s debt, Trump said.

“We have to look at their whole debt structure,” Trump said. “They owe a lot of money to your friends on Wall Street. We’re going to have to wipe that out. That’s going to have to be -- you know, you can say goodbye to that. I don’t know if it’s Goldman Sachs but whoever it is, you can wave goodbye to that.”

President Donald Trump’s budget chief said not to take literally the president’s suggestion that Puerto Rico’s debt would be “wiped out,” even as the territory’s bonds plunged to a record low on Wednesday: 32 cents on the dollar.

Now...isn't a national take-over of banks...socialism?

With all due respect to Puerto Rico's very real suffering.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 4:21:32 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		We bailed Wall Street out. I'm OK with calling in a favor for Puerto Rico.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 5:34:11 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Another taxpayer bailout...no !! What happened is that whereas the marketplace we are constantly told is where the incentive exists. Well not anymore.

We've seen countless corp. tax breaks to spur economic growth. Well guess what ? In an agrarian economy such as PR's, the idea was to get jobs there from the US corp. Did PR show up on the screen as cheap labor ? Yes, did PR have a huge corp. tax ? no.

What was passed then was a tax law that completely wiped out ALL corp. taxes on profits if done in PR. This was circa 1960's and sure enough like a shark to blood, corp. America couldn't get there fast enough.

Then the US deficits were a bit much still, so in 1996 B. Clinton signed a law to phase out the tax break but...over 10 years.

So because the dear tender hearts of corp. America lost there 100% profit tax break, they couldn't leave fast enough. Timing wasn't important, as corp. started to leave. By 2006, PR had lost 40% of the jobs they brought.

So the govt. used the modern right (republican) ideology...borrow the money. At a time while adding debt and a losing economy...nothing left but default.

HERE


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 5:39:20 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 5:50:31 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I can't imagine anyone being this slow or obtuse.

1) PR owes banks.
2) Trump says they'll have to forgive the debt.
3) How is that not the government swooping in to take control? That profit? Those resources? Nope. Give them to us. They're not yours now.

Did I type slowly enough?

If you want to quibble, it's certainly banks, not the entire industry.

Or the usual . . . "Well, he didn't really mean what he meant when he said what he didn't really say."

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 5:54:14 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11239
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 6:12:44 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

We bailed Wall Street out. I'm OK with calling in a favor for Puerto Rico.



Except 2/3 of it is citizen-owned mutual funds... not Wall Street

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 6:12:52 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 6:24:11 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11239
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.


Translation- Regardless of what this president says or does, leftist trash is going to howl like their hair is on fire

They fully agree with him on this. Who doubts that?


_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 6:31:28 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.


Translation- Regardless of what this president says or does, leftist trash is going to howl like their hair is on fire

They fully agree with him on this. Who doubts that?



So 2/3 of the 67 billion is in mutual funds owned by American everyday citizens... 67 billion.. or was it more?

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 7:45:39 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
We bailed Wall Street out. I'm OK with calling in a favor for Puerto Rico.

Except 2/3 of it is citizen-owned mutual funds... not Wall Street


Where do you get that figure of 2/3? Not saying it isn't so, just wondering what the reference to that number was. In any case the article in the OP quotes Trump thus: “They owe a lot of money to your friends on Wall Street. We’re going to have to wipe that out." And Trump never lies, and always knows what he's talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
So 2/3 of the 67 billion is in mutual funds owned by American everyday citizens... 67 billion.. or was it more?


It's more, according to this WSJ article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/puerto-rico-bonds-slide-as-trump-says-goodbye-to-territorys-debt-1507126128

A quote from which- "Holders of the bonds, which include mutual funds, hedge funds and direct investors, sold in heavy volume."

It didn't say what percentage of PR bonds are held by those and other unnamed groups collectively, nor percentage held by mutual funds in particular, but most most people don't consider hedge fund traders and direct investors in high-risk foreign bonds as "everyday" sorts of people.

I feel safe in saying that only a quite small percentage of "everyday" mutual fund investors have anything in high-yield obligations at all.

If the debt obligations being sold are high-yield its because they are high-risk, same as for any other financial asset/instrument.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 9:19:08 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Now...isn't a national take-over of banks...socialism?

No.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 10:38:31 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.


Translation- Regardless of what this president says or does, leftist trash is going to howl like their hair is on fire

They fully agree with him on this. Who doubts that?


Welcome to opposition discourse (rightist trash) from 2008-2016. In what future scenario do you see this not happening ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 10:42:55 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.


Translation- Regardless of what this president says or does, leftist trash is going to howl like their hair is on fire

They fully agree with him on this. Who doubts that?



So 2/3 of the 67 billion is in mutual funds owned by American everyday citizens... 67 billion.. or was it more?


I doubt you are accurate in that 'American everyday (?) citizens' were PR bond investors from a fund that can have dozens of funds and if so...so what ?

Even if you are right, I looked over a quarterly report of a friend and out of 26 investments, 16 had gone down and his portfolio was down. Again...so what ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/5/2017 11:04:17 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Now...isn't a national take-over of banks...socialism?

No.

It most certainly is a form of socialism. Do you think a so-called govt. takeover of banks is to make money ? Hardly, it is to use the taxpayer to make things whole again so the depositor doesn't lose...like they did in the past. My grandparents lost $30,000 cash when FDR 'took over the banks.'

That's why we have and is in fact, part of the basis for describing such policies as state capitalism. Instead of the govt, owning even partly, the means of production, (let alone enjoy any profits) govt. essentially 'owns' the risk and not the benefits just as in TARP. (nobody ever mentions moral hazard because they know damn well...it is immoral)

This is the very essence of what's called 'state capitalism'...socialism for the rich...capitalism for the poor.

Which of course being a linguistics aficionado, begs the question why we even have the word...bankrupt. Banks don't go bankrupt like say you and me. They are taken into receivership and the good ole taxpayer if necessary and it is all too often deemed necessary, takes the hit once again.

Any govt. 'insurance corporation' exists to use the taxpayer to bailout mostly...the investor class.


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/6/2017 1:57:17 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I wont be back for a conversation with you on this but I imagine someone else might be thinking the same thing:

where in anything you said is a "national takeover of banks" being discussed?


He's literally just a howler these days

Once upon a time he almost made sense on occasion, not any more. Trump drove him completely insane

Translation: It is up to the listener to invoke or not either his common sense or partisan prejudices. Can't have both.


I guess now is as good a time as any to tell you that I keep looking at your signature thinking "the opposite of 'man exploits man' is 'man doesn't exploit man".

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/6/2017 3:40:03 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

We bailed Wall Street out. I'm OK with calling in a favor for Puerto Rico.



Except 2/3 of it is citizen-owned mutual funds... not Wall Street


on the whole I cant speak to who holds the debt, but I own some thousands of dollars in a particular municipal bond that is invested in Puerto rico. so im always a little hacked off when I read about their seemingly continual self inflicted financial woes.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/6/2017 6:04:12 AM   
ladiesmanservant


Posts: 51
Joined: 11/3/2016
Status: offline 		Wrong he is not a Socialist. Only poor Jews are Socialists. He is a Rich Jew and a Capitalist. I have seen him posturing and pontificating but never dictating.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/6/2017 6:07:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		President Trump pointed out Puerto Rico's "massive debt" problems on Monday. Puerto Rico, Trump tweeted, owes "billions of dollars" to "Wall Street and the banks, which, sadly, must be dealt with."

In reality, most of that money is owed to everyday investors. Less than 25% of Puerto Rican debt is held by hedge funds, according to estimates by Cate Long, founder of research firm Puerto Rico Clearinghouse.

The rest of the debt is owned by individuals and mutual funds that are held by mom-and-pop investors.

"For the most part, Main Street America owns this debt," Long said. "It's not as though these are vultures circling around the island."

Investors piled into Puerto Rican bonds over the last decade, enabling the island's unsustainable spending-spree along the way. They kept buying Puerto Rican debt even as the island fell into an 11-year recession that deepened the debt crisis. High unemployment forced hundreds of thousands of residents to flee the island, further eroding the tax base.

These risks forced Puerto Rico to pay high rates that lured bond investors searching for healthy returns in a world of historically-low interest rates. Another bonus: Puerto Rico's debt is "triple tax-exempt." That means owners of the bonds don't face federal, state or local taxes on the interest they earn.

More than 850 bond mutual funds own Puerto Rican debt, according to data compiled by Morningstar. Some of the biggest holders include mutual funds run by household names like OppenheimerFunds, Franklin Templeton, Goldman Sachs (GS), BlackRock (BLK) and T. Rowe Price.

Not only that, but there's the reality that Goldman Sacs and other banks are publicly traded -- so private investors own these as well.

In their case, the majority of Goldman Sachs' 481.5 million shares are held by institutional investors. Company insiders, including board members and corporate executives, own a further 1.78% of the outstanding common stock. And the public at large owns the remaining 30%.

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/22/who-owns-goldman-sachs.aspx

The hedge funds are generally privately owned.

But the point -- for the bountys among us -- is that how much howling has been done offer "Socialism!" when there's a tax or a fee duly passed by Congress, and those same howlers just nod when the president talks about essentially confiscating money. Not passing relief, not buying them out (which still hits taxpayers), but stiffing the people who invested in Puerto Rico's infrastructure. That's exactly a socialist takeover.

Now, I don't think he can actually do that. At least not on his own.

But this is redistributing income at its grandest -- and at least how Trump presented it, government at its socialist worst.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Trump -- Socialist Dictator - 10/6/2017 7:34:00 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
We bailed Wall Street out. I'm OK with calling in a favor for Puerto Rico.


We shouldn't have bailed out Wall Street. Don't think we should bail out Puerto Rico. We shouldn't "bail out" anyone, as a Federal Government action.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Trump -- Socialist Dictator Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109