quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

After the Oklahoma bombings, Congress passed
the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (AEDPA), which has done a hell of a lot more to erode the American Justice System more than The Patriot Act.

Any new gun legislation needs to be thought out much better, in order to be effective, while still honoring the Second Amendment.

The FDA has the sole authority to approve or deny new medications from entering the market. Why shouldn't the ATF have that same authority for new gun models, aftermarket add-ons, and ammo? Is that reasonable? Does it follow the Second Amendment?

No it doesn't fit the 2nd. The ability to stop new firearms leads to no new
firearms and so on.

I'm talking about new models, specifically. That has nothing to do with banning any current model.

How often are totally new gun models introduced? Wiki has the latest Smith & Wesson handgun 'series' released in 2012, and latest rifle coming in 2008. And with no control of aftermarket addons being introduced, what good is any legislation?

Under the very broad definition of 'assault rifle' you can see where there might be a problem.

As for the addons, there are some that allow a disabled shooter more control of the weapon, but according to at least one senator the only reason anyone would want that particular modification is to kill people.

Do you understand the point?

that does not mean I agree with all add ons, but seriously, some do have practical uses besides murdering other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

quote:



While I agree with the fundamentals of your argument, I disagree with your solution, that being to deny the rights of the 187000000 gun owners who have never taken another human life, or harmed another human with a gun.

quote:


You have posted the numbers of US citizens killed by guns, but you fail to grasp that it is less than one percent (not even a one hundredth of a percent of gun owners) who have committed these heinous acts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

After the Oklahoma bombings, Congress passed
the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (AEDPA), which has done a hell of a lot more to erode the American Justice System more than The Patriot Act.

Any new gun legislation needs to be thought out much better, in order to be effective, while still honoring the Second Amendment.

The FDA has the sole authority to approve or deny new medications from entering the market. Why shouldn't the ATF have that same authority for new gun models, aftermarket add-ons, and ammo? Is that reasonable? Does it follow the Second Amendment?

No it doesn't fit the 2nd. The ability to stop new firearms leads to no new
firearms and so on.

I'm talking about new models, specifically. That has nothing to do with banning any current model.

How often are totally new gun models introduced? Wiki has the latest Smith & Wesson handgun 'series' released in 2012, and latest rifle coming in 2008. And with no control of aftermarket addons being introduced, what good is any legislation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

After the Oklahoma bombings, Congress passed
the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (AEDPA), which has done a hell of a lot more to erode the American Justice System more than The Patriot Act.

Any new gun legislation needs to be thought out much better, in order to be effective, while still honoring the Second Amendment.

The FDA has the sole authority to approve or deny new medications from entering the market. Why shouldn't the ATF have that same authority for new gun models, aftermarket add-ons, and ammo? Is that reasonable? Does it follow the Second Amendment?

No it doesn't fit the 2nd. The ability to stop new firearms leads to no new
firearms and so on.

I'm talking about new models, specifically. That has nothing to do with banning any current model.

How often are totally new gun models introduced? Wiki has the latest Smith & Wesson handgun 'series' released in 2012, and latest rifle coming in 2008. And with no control of aftermarket addons being introduced, what good is any legislation?

Under the very broad definition of 'assault rifle' you can see where there might be a problem.

As for the addons, there are some that allow a disabled shooter more control of the weapon, but according to at least one senator the only reason anyone would want that particular modification is to kill people.

Do you understand the point?

that does not mean I agree with all add ons, but seriously, some do have practical uses besides murdering other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

To this, I'll quote a song from Evita: "There is evil, ever around, fundamental. System of government quite incidental."

Blame God for that whole 'free will' thing. No State can provide the absolute guarantee of life to every citizen every day. Your government can't. Canada can't. No government has ever been able to. And there are governments, or would be governments, all around the world right now, actively killing their people.

In the US, like most of the civilized world, we provide punishments and consequences for crimes. We provide civil processes for victims and their families to seek financial restitution. But we have no way to stop evil deeds done on a daily basis, all over the country, before they happen, without going full 1984.

Though the Declaration of Independence is an amazing document, and parts of it should be used as our nation's true goal, most of it's a fuck off to King George III and the rest of Britain.

But remember that none of it applied to slaves or Native Americans. And it's "All men were created equal", so none of that gender equality nonsense either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

59 out of hundreds of millions is not even a blip on the radar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


The Constitution is a fairly sacred document to many Americans, even the ones that haven't read it since high school (of they went to high school). And like Christians and the Bible, we focus on the parts we like, and that justify our positions.

Sure, I get that it's considered sacred. I see how that's desirable, too. But even more sacred than that is surely that part of the Declaration of Independence that states 'we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness'. Of course, those 59 dead have been deprived of their liberty and their ability to pursue happiness, along with their lives. It strikes me, from my no doubt simple outsider's point of view, that it's even more important than anything in the Constitution - including the 2nd, obviously - that America has failed most fundamentally of all insofar as it's not protected those people's rights to those three absolutely essential things.

59 out of hundreds of millions is not even a blip on the radar.

so you should just lift the law against murder???.... yes, that would help wouldnt it.
and arm everyone.
being shot, and murdered mean nothing compared to the second amendment, brava
people should just get a gun, and everything will be perfect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


Some people dying occassionally so that this world has some hope of free men is still worth it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


Some people dying occassionally so that this world has some hope of free men is still worth it.

Needless deaths at the hands of a madman is not the way to prove the argument.

In fact, it makes you sound like some of the batshit crazy mother fuckers that I, as a gun owner, do not think should own guns.

In other words, you aint helping, please go play chicken with a freight train or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


Some people dying occassionally so that this world has some hope of free men is still worth it.

Needless deaths at the hands of a madman is not the way to prove the argument.

In fact, it makes you sound like some of the batshit crazy mother fuckers that I, as a gun owner, do not think should own guns.

In other words, you aint helping, please go play chicken with a freight train or something.

Go fuck yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


Some people dying occassionally so that this world has some hope of free men is still worth it.

Needless deaths at the hands of a madman is not the way to prove the argument.

In fact, it makes you sound like some of the batshit crazy mother fuckers that I, as a gun owner, do not think should own guns.

In other words, you aint helping, please go play chicken with a freight train or something.

Go fuck yourself.

Seriously, you really think that 11000 people dying directly from gun violence is a sane argument for not fixing the problem?

Sounds like the guy that appeared before congress arguing that safety notices on children's toys were an unnecessary costs since the number of children hurt of killed because the swallowed a part was small in comparison to the number that didnt.

Let me guess, you are against the fixing the little issue with the National Crime Information Service database that might cut that number significantly, right? Because it may violate someone's privacy?

Come on tamaka, you put your foot in it, see if you can pull it out, or choke on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I wonder if tamaka might be one of the ones volunteering to sleep on a marble slab tonight ? Or any night ? I'm sure he/she/it will agree it's worth it because of course, it might keep others free

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

trumpy ? That sounds like something that happens when you eat too much KimChee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

tamaka is a true trumpy
its sad.