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RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 1:11:14 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And you're still only 23.  When I was 23, I thought I knew everything there was to know in the world too.  OK, maybe you found your one true love at the age of 16, but frankly, it doesn't happen often enough for me to think that every 18-year-old who's about to get engaged really knows what he's doing.  It's the stuff of fairy tales.

While this is true, we've seen this exact sort of question come from 40 yos as well.  I'd prefer to focus on that aspect and help them so they won't have to be asking the same question when they get older.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 1:36:53 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		A 40-year-old who wants to get engaged may or may not be making a mistake.  An 18-year-old who wants to get engaged is almost certainly making a mistake.  Getting engaged at that age only adds unnecessary pressure.  You can believe you're in love, have a committed relationship, and expect to spend the rest of your lives together, but what exactly is the point of forcing things by buying rings and promising to get married?  You shouldn't get engaged until you've already figured out the living situation that you're going to have after you're married--and know that it works.  Then, OK, you're ready to get married.  But that doesn't sound like the OP's case at all.  Sorry, but it's what I'd tell my own son, too.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 3:25:24 PM   
mastersayed


Posts: 119
Joined: 3/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You can believe you're in love, have a committed relationship, and expect to spend the rest of your lives together, but what exactly is the point of forcing things by buying rings and promising to get married? 



Actually there is a point to forcing things. Her parents are quite southern conservative, and the rule in their family is that a girl cant move out of the house until shes married or at least engaged. Also they are in the military, and they will be moving to a new base in California within 9 months. So basically unless I show intent of marrying her (with an engagement ring) I'm SOL.
The reason I'm willing to get hitched at such a young age is because she has been a great woman, she helped me through a drug addiction, financial hardships and school. Ontop of all of that she is obedient and I know that she is with me because she truly loves me. When I even asked her to pickout an engagement ring, she picked a really modestly priced one. In this day and age, a good woman is rare. As to being too young to marry, our age is pretty much the norm in both of our families to marry.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 3:36:31 PM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

So basically unless I show intent of marrying her (with an engagement ring) I'm SOL.


So you are allowing her family to dictate your personal decisions?  I don't see this going anywhere positive.  Especially with the issues you've outlined.  Take your time, get her on a path of raising her self-esteem, it can work.  Good luck with this. 


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to mastersayed)
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RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 5:31:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

So basically unless I show intent of marrying her (with an engagement ring) I'm SOL.


So you are allowing her family to dictate your personal decisions?  I don't see this going anywhere positive.  Especially with the issues you've outlined.  Take your time, get her on a path of raising her self-esteem, it can work.  Good luck with this. 


Uh yeah.  The solution to that is her moving out of the house on her own terms.  Not forcing an engagement which just plays into their rules. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 6:05:27 PM   
mastersayed


Posts: 119
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Can we all drop the engagement arguement and focus on the original question:

is this common? if so is there a way to stop her from being so down on herself for being a slave? is there a way to teach her pride in her submission?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 7:04:50 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Can we all drop the engagement arguement and focus on the original question:

is this common? if so is there a way to stop her from being so down on herself for being a slave? is there a way to teach her pride in her submission?

Only by teaching her pride in herself first and foremost.  Rather than getting into a funk every few weeks which causes you to spend time and energy reaffirming to her- when she gets that way, give her tasks to do, or give her five minutes of consolation and then get busy doing other things.  Only with time and experience on her own two feet can she prove to herself and learn for herself exactly how strong she is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mastersayed)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 7:16:35 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		She needs to live outside herself a bit more.  Can she join a book club, exercise class, or take up a hobby or learn something new (such as a cooking class?).  Self-esteem can be built in small steps, that affirm the person and her worth.  It won't come from her depending on you to build her up constantly.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is this common? - 7/30/2006 11:04:01 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		You can't separate the two.  Part of the problem is that there's way too much pressure on the two of you as it is.  Getting engaged because her family insists on it has to be one of the worst reasons to get engaged that I've ever heard of.  This is her way of asking herself whether this is really the way she wants to spend the rest of her life.  And she's not ready to make that decision.  Really, if you two keep this up, I wouldn't be too surprised if she ends up having a nervous breakdown.  You both need to back up and catch your breath.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Can we all drop the engagement arguement and focus on the original question:

is this common? if so is there a way to stop her from being so down on herself for being a slave? is there a way to teach her pride in her submission?

(in reply to mastersayed)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is this common? - 7/31/2006 1:45:51 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		sub-guilt is a very real thing, and that's a problem for us at whatever age we realise we might be "traitors to our gender".  we're taught we should not just "equal men", but we have to work harder to show we won't be "held down" by reason of our gender.  Not everyone welcomes the realization they are submissive.  i know a lot of subs who really struggled with it. i know i did!   we get over it when we can say, well, i tried that, it wasn't for me, thanks.  When we can truly say i know i am capable of many things, i choose this. (sometimes in addition to the "many things!" )  This usually takes a few years. 

she won't develop pride in her submissive side until she has flexed and used her nilla side, then decided submission is for her.    i don't think she has enough experience with herself as a woman to be equipped to accept herself as a slave yet.  Please consider that she needs to be "all grown up" and independant before she can turn around and say *no, i prefer to be owned, i prefer to be dependant in some ways, i prefer to follow rather than to lead.*  How can she do that yet without experiencing those things? 

IF You feel ownership/ protective feelings for her, do You think her having no time between her fathers house and her Masters house is good for her?  Don't You as a Master, WANt to see her experience her neutrality, so when she agrees submission is better for her, that her choice is truly informed and means she wants to serve YOU out of choice, not just circumstance?

The pride of being a slave is NOT in at you are a captive.  The pride of slavery comes from making the choice to serve willingly, because you would rather be no place else, because you have been someplace else, and it wasn't your place.  

Let her discover that within herself, and You won't ever worry about self-image as a slave.  Don't let her explore that, and You will always live with her image of slavery as being the cards she was dealt, rather than a choice she made.  Do You want that undercurrent in Your home?  If not, do something to foster her neutral/ nilla/ independant side, so she has a base to make decisions from.  Maybe an apt of her own?  Some withdrawl from M/s or D/s relationship?

finally, If she's over 18, and her parents won't let her move out without being engaged or married,  the US Military would have some quibble with them stopping her, if she were to pack up and just move.  She legally can move to a place of her own.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is this common? - 7/31/2006 2:23:38 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		There are two problems here and they are interlocked. One is her guit, it can be that her upbringing is makig her feel this was, that she should not be submissive and if so it can be worked out, if however she simply do not wish to be a slave, but do it all for you, then there is problems then all depends on if she wish to continue her sacrifice and if love will ever turn to resenet if it continues.

The other matter is the vanilla part, we need not discuss it here, your question was rather exact, yes it is quite common for a sub or a slave to feel that way and no there exisit no magic cure to make it all better, it will take time, self discovery and encuregment and mayby a change of lifesyle.

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is this common? - 7/31/2006 2:40:33 AM   
prdslave


Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline 		I went from my parents house, into the military, and then into a marriage...all without truly living on my own, really finding out who "I" was. I would not go back and change my experiences now, because they were not all bad, in fact were for the most part good, but I agree with the theme running through most of the posts here. She needs time to grow into herself before she can truly be prepared to devote herself to you. If you truly care (which seems the case), you will urge her to do this, and it will be better for you both in the long run.

buy a box of kleenex and sit down for a long talk....

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is this common? - 8/1/2006 12:29:54 AM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		She loves you and wants to please you.  You love her and want to please her.  Toss the terms away, and all they superficially include.  Make the definitions for yourself.  No one here can say, "Do this." 

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to mastersayed)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is this common? - 8/1/2006 1:28:29 AM   
Tapestry


Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline 		I have a concern about the term "object of pleasure".  As a slave, of course I want to please, in everyway, which of course includes sexually and every other way.  But I'm not only an onject of pleasure, I am so much more.  I am girlfriend, lover, partner, friend, as well as slave.  Let's not diminish her role to simply that of an object of pleasure.  And if that's what she perceives herself to be, then there is the need to help her realize her other roles in your life as well.  It doesn't sound like you regard her as only an object of pleasure, but somehow your feelings are not perceived by her.  What can you do differently (actions not words) to help her realize the many roles she fulfills in your life, and the value you place on her?  You can find an object of pleasure anywhere.  You can't find a precious slave to love and cherish in all aspects of your life as easily.

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to babysburnin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is this common? - 8/1/2006 5:33:06 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		i don't normally post in this forum, but i thought i would throw this out here.  You keep calling her slave, yet what it seems is she sees herself as submissive. There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between the two.  If you are new to the lifestyle because she saw something in you, no matter how dominant you are, if you are not enslaving her, she is, in my opinion, not your slave.  If she is "being" submissive to humor you in your idea of being a Dom, that in my opinion is not anything that either a slave or submissive lifestyle is about or Dom or Master for that matter.   Just because you are a Dom, doesn't mean you will  be a Master.  Just because she submits to please you, doesn't mean she is a slave.  She could be feeling trapped  and somehow obligated because she introduced you to something and suddenly, you have taken something you are not all that familiar with and simply start slapping labels and "ideas" on her and your relationship. 

She is only as slave as you are Master. 

Also, you said she brought you into this lifestyle because of your dominant nature, and she enjoys submitting to you, on some level could you be forcing yourself to "be" what you think she wants you to be.  You don't have to identify as a Dom or a Master to be a dominant man in the world.  It could be that she wants the kink but in the end, she doesn't want her husband or Man to be "a" Dom or "a" Master of her. 

You cannot walk to swim the ocean depths from the beach without first wadding through the shallow end and the reefs. 

D/s and M/s will be around forever, perhaps it would be wise to simply take a couple steps back and learn what all of it means to you, and more importantly how it touchs you inside and out.  If she is meant to be your slave, and she naturally emerges slave because your will compels it, the Master and slave relationship will come. 

A slave usually has conflict within herself when a Master compels the slave and she is being enslaved, she is fighting for what is comfortable to her, her freedom.  She will have this all through your ownership with her (periodically, think of it as phases through slavery and enslavement idea) when she moves through various levels she reaches within your expectations.  Slavery on many levels is very empowering to a woman, where she thinks she can then take over the world, she wants to roar with the power of woman, yet, it scares the hell out of her when she realizes she could never feel that power without the enslavement of her Master. 

i hope that helps and good luck to you both.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/1/2006 5:44:34 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to mastersayed)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is this common? - 8/1/2006 10:24:10 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		*nod* This is common for me as well. While I'm not a slave (never had a boyfriend who wanted to be a Master) sometimes I get really upset with myself about enjoying the things that I do (name-calling and all that). When that happens I need my partner to sit me down and remind me that they love me as a person and an equal first and as a submissive and little whore second.

(in reply to mastersayed)
Profile   Post #: 36
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